Rozen Maiden - Anime Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Rozen Maiden fans only)

[Kairin]

This thread is for the experienced Rozen Maiden viewer (i.e. those of you who are familiar with potentially all the light novels / manga), its purpose is to allow free discussion of theories and speculation over the Rozen Maiden anime series, it therefore will contain unmarked spoilers. If you are a light novel / manga virgin of Rozen Maiden, then do not read this thread unless you want to be spoiled (use the Speculation & Theories Thread).

Since posters are expected to be familiar with the light novel / manga, there is no real need for spoiler tags, but feel free to include them if you so wish.

Adding a Spoiler tag:

Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms. Make sure that you include a title that clearly identifies the specific source of the spoiler!

Finally, please remain on-topic and do not use this thread if it's just discussion about the current or previous anime episodes. Also remember that this isn't a light novel / manga discussion thread, if you do want to discuss the light novel then please use the existing thread.

[AbZeroNow]

Thank you for creating this thread, desu.

Anyway from what I understand, the new Rozen Maiden anime this summer seems like it's gonna adapt the Rozen Maiden II manga, which starts out as a reboot but then winds up continuing the main story via the multiverse theory.

I wonder how much knowledge of the previous anime I'll need in order to watch it if it does wind up doing that.

[demino_hellsin]

But will it follow manga 1 or the previous anime seasons? That is the question.

Kirakishou will have to be the focus of the first arc then when the anime starts?

[Horse]

Meh, I was hoping it wouldn't but now it seems pretty obvious the new anime retcons/ignores events of the first anime series to go with the manga.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNDOUSWCcAEYkUQ.jpg:large

[Horse]

[mod edit: moved from general discussion thread]

Originally Posted by Palsa-San

furthermore the alterations made the anime so different that it would be impossible to make a third season and stay true to Peach-Pit's concept.

I don't know. Ouverture would certainly need to be ignored if they wanted to follow the manga but what else would they need to fix from traumend besides:

Spoiler for animu/mango:

?Laplace giving the rosa mistacas back to their "rightful" anime winners (Hina @ Shinku, Sou @ Gin). Don't remember anything bad happening to their artificial spirits, either.
?Kirakishou getting the defeated bodies.

This is all doable. Is there really anything more? Maybe I need to read it all again.

Father is still such a vague concept in the manga that I'm not sure even PEACH-PIT know where they are going with it.

Besides, does anime really NEED to be exactly the same as the manga?

Originally Posted by StainGlass

unless of course, DEEN deviates from the material themselves

They kind of already have with the recap, if we are to take those events seriously.

[aeriolewinters]

Spoiler for animu/mango:

?Laplace giving the rosa mistacas back to their "rightful" anime winners (Hina @ Shinku, Sou @ Gin). Don't remember anything bad happening to their artificial spirits, either.
?Kirakishou getting the defeated bodies.

Spoiler for Anime/manga comparison:

Actually, Suigintou didn't win the Rosa Mystica in the manga, she stole it.

Then there's the glaring fact that all dolls behave differently in the manga as opposed to the nomad anime.

[Horse]

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Spoiler for Anime/manga comparison:

Actually, Suigintou didn't win the Rosa Mystica in the manga, she stole it.

Spoiler for mango/animu:

Uh, that's why I said anime winners. The status quo would be the same - Gin would have Sou's rosa. The only thing we'd be missing out on is Sui/Gin "YOU STOLE IT DESU" drama.

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Then there's the glaring fact that all dolls behave differently in the manga as opposed to the nomad anime.

I don't see this as a problem at all. Besides, this single recap episode certainly did not set them up differently either.

[Palsa-San]

When character personality changes are concerned, I think that the biggest difference between the Nomad anime and the manga would be Megu's personality.
In the anime, she's all "La la la, I want to die!", where in the manga, and I'm meaning early on, her personality is far more cynical, and almost psychotic in some cases.

Spoiler:

In the recent chapters, she practically goes yandere, though that is while under Kirakishou's control.
I actually see this as more of the problem with the new anime series, since the first episode didn't show Megu at all, a lot of people that watched Träumend and didn't read the manga will probably be pretty confused when she shows up.
The other problem is that they didn't put hardly any focus on Tomoe, so I'm curious as to how they will introduce her when the story shifts back to the younger Jun.

Originally Posted by Horse

I don't know. Ouverture would certainly need to be ignored if they wanted to follow the manga but what else would they need to fix from traumend besides:

Spoiler for animu/mango:

?Laplace giving the rosa mistacas back to their "rightful" anime winners (Hina @ Shinku, Sou @ Gin). Don't remember anything bad happening to their artificial spirits, either.
?Kirakishou getting the defeated bodies.

This is all doable. Is there really anything more? Maybe I need to read it all again.

Father is still such a vague concept in the manga that I'm not sure even PEACH-PIT know where they are going with it.

I'm not arguing with you there, I've actually felt that way myself, but after putting more thought into, and paying very close attention to the manga, I found that Peach-pit does indeed have a goal in mind.
I don't really see Ouvertüre as much of a stumbling block, Peach-Pit has never really gone into much detail as to why Suigintou and Shinku have their rivalry with each other, I think that they want to leave that up to the readers speculations, at least for now.
The big problem is that the Nomad anime made a lot of changes early on while the manga was still being written, and they actually passed Peach-Pit, this happens a lot with anime adaptations, and it doesn't usually help the manga authors much.
One of the mistakes that they made, which they kind of fixed in Träumend, was with the artificial spirits; in the 2004 series they talked a bit about the rosa mysticas, but then they went after the artificial spirits as though They were the rosa mysticas, this confused a lot of people into thinking that the artificial spirits were the rosa mysticas; somehow I think that the people at Nomad might have misunderstood something and thought the same.

Spoiler for Träumend:

In the manga, Suigintou, Kanaria and Suiseiseki are never defeated, in the Nomad anime Suigintou was defeated twice.
Hina-Ichigo and Souseiseki stop moving, and their rosa mysticas go to Shinku and Suigintou, but their bodies remain at the Sakurada residence, where in the manga their bodies are lost in the n-field; though Kirakishou is definitely capable of dragging them into the n-field, so they could have done that.

Spoiler for A little info on the rosa mystica and 'Father' (aka: Rozen)::

It's been a few years since I read this in the manga, so this is not a word for word interpretation, but it's the basic rundown of what happened.
In the manga, Laplace tells a story about an alchemist that was trying to make the perfect girl, by creating and using a rosa mystica (Philosopher's Stone; Ruby Prism (in the Atelier series))
Over the years and after countless failed attempts, he eventually ended up in prison (the inquisition declared alchemy as a form of heresy), but he formed a contract with a demon (Laplace), and that helped him make the rosa mystica.
But there was a problem, the rosa mystica was too powerful for one body, so it would have to be divided into seven pieces, and thus the seven Rozen Maidens were created.
Again, I read that years ago, so it's a very flakey explanation, but that's pretty much what it said.
My personal believe, is that the Rozen Maidens have to somehow overcome their personal differences in a peaceful way, and then they will become Alice; I feel that Laplace has gotten bored of observing them over the years, and came up with the Alice-Game as a diversion; both Träumend and the manga support that argument.

[Horse]

Originally Posted by Palsa-San

Spoiler:

I actually see this as more of the problem with the new anime series, since the first episode didn't show Megu at all, a lot of people that watched Träumend and didn't read the manga will probably be pretty confused when she shows up. The other problem is that they didn't put hardly any focus on Tomoe, so I'm curious as to how they will introduce her when the story shifts back to the younger Jun.

Spoiler for mango/animu:

They won't even get back to Megu or Tomoe in Zuruckspulen so they can obviously do another reboot recap in the next series.

I swear DEEN didn't care about anything but this Unwound World story that they are covering in this season. It's the easiest, too, since it's the only complete arc that PEACH-PIT have actually done themselves.

[Palsa-San]

True, though I doubt it would go too well.
Also, when Shoujo no Tsukurikata (How to make a girl) ends, it goes right back to the regular manga.

Spoiler for But. . .:

Future Jun will return in the next chapter, so it's not over yet.

[aeriolewinters]

Originally Posted by Palsa-San

When character personality changes are concerned, I think that the biggest difference between the Nomad anime and the manga would be Megu's personality.
In the anime, she's all "La la la, I want to die!", where in the manga, and I'm meaning early on, her personality is far more cynical, and almost psychotic in some cases.

Spoiler:

In the recent chapters, she practically goes yandere, though that is while under Kirakishou's control.
I actually see this as more of the problem with the new anime series, since the first episode didn't show Megu at all, a lot of people that watched Träumend and didn't read the manga will probably be pretty confused when she shows up.
The other problem is that they didn't put hardly any focus on Tomoe, so I'm curious as to how they will introduce her when the story shifts back to the younger Jun.

I'm not arguing with you there, I've actually felt that way myself, but after putting more thought into, and paying very close attention to the manga, I found that Peach-pit does indeed have a goal in mind.
I don't really see Ouvertüre as much of a stumbling block, Peach-Pit has never really gone into much detail as to why Suigintou and Shinku have their rivalry with each other, I think that they want to leave that up to the readers speculations, at least for now.
The big problem is that the Nomad anime made a lot of changes early on while the manga was still being written, and they actually passed Peach-Pit, this happens a lot with anime adaptations, and it doesn't usually help the manga authors much.
One of the mistakes that they made, which they kind of fixed in Träumend, was with the artificial spirits; in the 2004 series they talked a bit about the rosa mysticas, but then they went after the artificial spirits as though They were the rosa mysticas, this confused a lot of people into thinking that the artificial spirits were the rosa mysticas; somehow I think that the people at Nomad might have misunderstood something and thought the same.

Spoiler for Träumend:

In the manga, Suigintou, Kanaria and Suiseiseki are never defeated, in the Nomad anime Suigintou was defeated twice.
Hina-Ichigo and Souseiseki stop moving, and their rosa mysticas go to Shinku and Suigintou, but their bodies remain at the Sakurada residence, where in the manga their bodies are lost in the n-field; though Kirakishou is definitely capable of dragging them into the n-field, so they could have done that.

Spoiler for A little info on the rosa mystica and 'Father' (aka: Rozen)::

It's been a few years since I read this in the manga, so this is not a word for word interpretation, but it's the basic rundown of what happened.
In the manga, Laplace tells a story about an alchemist that was trying to make the perfect girl, by creating and using a rosa mystica (Philosopher's Stone; Ruby Prism (in the Atelier series))
Over the years and after countless failed attempts, he eventually ended up in prison (the inquisition declared alchemy as a form of heresy), but he formed a contract with a demon (Laplace), and that helped him make the rosa mystica.
But there was a problem, the rosa mystica was too powerful for one body, so it would have to be divided into seven pieces, and thus the seven Rozen Maidens were created.
Again, I read that years ago, so it's a very flakey explanation, but that's pretty much what it said.
My personal believe, is that the Rozen Maidens have to somehow overcome their personal differences in a peaceful way, and then they will become Alice; I feel that Laplace has gotten bored of observing them over the years, and came up with the Alice-Game as a diversion; both Träumend and the manga support that argument.

Spoiler for later chapters:

Suigintou reveals to Shinku of all people, that they have marks of the sins their father made.

so yeah, this is Rozen Maiden: Brotherhood, in more ways than one.