Love Live! Sunshine - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Jimmy C]

Should it be a comfort that there's been no sign that Otonokizaka's School Idol teams have won the Love Live competition for the last five years straight? I would think it'd be impossible to hide something like that by this episode.
Then again, I wouldn't put it past the studio to do exactly that either.
Anyway, assuming they haven't been on a winning streak, even if Otonokizaka's team is the odds on favourite this year, they wouldn't be considered unbeatable.
That's the only break Aquors is getting.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Tempester

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ABOUT GODDAMN TIME this happened. Too bad we had to sit through what is perhaps the most egregiously µ's-fellating episode to get to this point.

Oh yeah, and it's totally necessary to show a little girl who's the splitting image of Honoka doing Honoka things or else the dumb viewers obviously won't get the point. Sunshine is gracefully driving in the symbolism with a massive bloody sledgehammer as usual.

Sledgehammer is an understatement I think. They've been swinging that bloody wrecking ball from the first episode of the show. All the references, all the overbearing nods and straight up boot licking that u's got during this season was all building up to this episode, I'm sure of it. As you pointed out this franchise isn't particularly known for its subtlety and boy were they anything but that during the entire bloody season. (I mean, mini Honoka? Really? The kid's so cute it's a crime against the humanity but subtle it is not )

Now I'll admit that I was right on board with Dia and Ruby when they got trolled with the "meeting someone at the Shrine" bit. I mean what else would a u's fan think? Dia and Ruby were taking on the role of us audience members and got trolled hard just like we did. Think back to all our reactions here in these forums back when the girls first went to Tokyo? We were Dia and Ruby then, we got totally trolled there waiting for cameos that never came, the writers know what they did and they did it deliberately.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Love Live is a meticulously crafted franchise. No, it's not subtle, but its designed for maximum effectiveness from day one and they deliberately designed the first Aquors season as a deconstruction of what we all feared this season to become: a show living in the shadow of its predecessor. Honestly I don't think they quite managed to accomplish that and ended up going overboard on the theme of Aquors (and the show) living under the shadow of their predecessors. Because of that the show could have gotten its footing much sooner however, since they dragged everything right up to the end, it ended up coming off as annoying to many of us instead of a the show asserting itself as something distinct from the original Love Live.

The shows' creators, imho, ended up succumbing to its very thing they designed this season against: the baggage of Love Live. They wanted to look smart and pass off the idea that they were deconstructing that baggage but ended up being consumed by it. Ironic really.

Overall and despite everything I'm very pleasantly surprised by this episode. It even retrospectively improves some of the previous u's pandering that the show indulged in previous episodes but sadly its not enough for me to go from a 9 to a 10 (yet). It does however setup up a rather clean sheet going into a potential (and very likely let's admit) second season. Now THAT is something I'm very much looking forward now. Hopefully the last episode manages to keep that going for me.

PS: oh what the heck, let me fanboy a bit and completely ignore what the show just asked us to do: I still can't believe we didn't get a single cameo from the original 9. Come on guys? We all know that at least Umi should have shown up by now

[blakstealth]

That girl is the remotely closest thing we'll get to a cameo.

[AP24]

The episode made it obvious which song they will perform at the end of the season. Should have seen it few episodes ago.

[Pen3]

Originally Posted by AP24

The episode made it obvious which song they will perform at the end of the season. Should have seen it few episodes ago.

They even mentioned "zero to one" about 5 times in this episode alone.

[Nork22]

So finished watching the episode twice. I'm kinda mixed about it, but nonetheless if left a good impression on me at the end and has kept me grinning every time.

The first half was made up of some silly antics from our Aqours girls. Pass the preliminaries? It's to be expected. Getting 0 interest in the open day, that's no surprise for me and I'm glad this show didn't have to make it a miracle that the school is saved just because you have school idols making headlines. Dia is confirmed to be the annoying but loveable μ's fandom, and Ruby is the μ's fans that came in late (as in heard about the final concert this year). Riko and her large collection of Kabedon fantasy magazines. Oh Riko, what have you gotten yourself into? Chika with those marks. I'm not sure if I should laugh or reel in horror.

The conversation with St Snow was also interesting as it showcases 2 ideologies between idol groups and what it is to be a school idol. One is to chase the dream and look back on it, while the other is to run free and set out your own dream. In a way, I'm glad the writers have gone through the less than subtle approach of referencing μ's for the last 10 episodes to hit the point home to fans old and new that they know Aqours came off the back of μ's, but they will be forging on their own little path and have faith in where the writers and producers will take Aqours.

Lastly, let's all remember Honkers, for she has died for our sins and has now been reborn to ensure that Aqours will succeed on!


PS, for all you Kanan fans, have a GIFT

Originally Posted by blakstealth

That girl is the remotely closest thing we'll get to a cameo.

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Don't know what the fandom is thinking, but the girl looks more like a Rin x Kotori love child.

[playmaker2k]

I'll admit it. The nostalgia of those places got to me especially the river/bridge scene. I remember seeing Maki in tears. That was not cool.

What I'm hype for is the possibility of having a true sports anime next season. It's looking that way so far. We never had an inside view of how the competition works or what the competitors do during that time. This will be uncharted territory with no past references to go with.

Saint Snow talked about the competition and got me hoping we'll get tournament brackets and see how many competitors made the cut and who are the Top 2.
Just imagine seeing Aqours sitting in the audience (or backstage) and watching other idols perform. If all this happens, I want a 3rd season just to stretch it out. lol
Give me my sub-unit battle, Sunrise and make Guilty Kiss the deciding factor. Yes.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Should it be a comfort that there's been no sign that Otonokizaka's School Idol teams have won the Love Live competition for the last five years straight? I would think it'd be impossible to hide something like that by this episode.
Then again, I wouldn't put it past the studio to do exactly that either.
Anyway, assuming they haven't been on a winning streak, even if Otonokizaka's team is the odds on favourite this year, they wouldn't be considered unbeatable.
That's the only break Aquors is getting.

I think your comment needs to be responded to, in two parts. Firstly, in the Sunshine anime, has there been an opportunity yet to reveal the current fate of the Otonokizaka Idol Research Club and the current landscape of the top teams in Love Live, and can a case be made that these opportunities have been obscured deliberately by the authors? Secondly, given what we know of the general world of School Idols as a sport, how plausible is it that the Otonokizaka teams are still formidable as a force, assuming Otonokizaka are still creating new Idol groups every year?

Before that however, I will have to clarify the stance I am arguing for. I am not arguing that Otonokizaka could possibly win five years straight, I'm merely arguing that Otonokizaka remained a highly prolific and successful club, that always ended up at the top rankings in Love Live, and even managed to win some Love Lives after Muse. As such, it is plausible that this school are one of the favorites this year, and one of the top two teams during the Tokyo pre-tournament where Aqours suffered a 0.

Part 1: Are the authors hiding the fate of OIRC deliberately?

Let's begin with the anime itself. There are four opportunities, I can think of, that could have revealed (just as the OG did with ARISE) who are the top teams in Love Live right now, and the possible fate of the Otonokizaka Idol Research Club (hence forth abbreviated as OIRC), which from the movies, we know Alisa and Yukiho were recruiting for in their last year.

1. During the very first episode, we are shown Chika being inspired by a promotion video for the Love Live competition, featuring Muse. There we learn that Muse is legendary and still has a huge fanbase even years after disbandment. There are interesting implications here for the possible fate of the OIRC, which I will discuss later on. Interestingly, we are never told who are the current defending champions of Love Live - that very same scene identified ARISE as defending champions.

2. During Episode 8, we are not told who are the top two groups in the Tokyo invitational pre-tournament event. Were we told those names, I suspect we might have gotten confirmation of the current status of the OIRC. Naturally, the cast, distraught over their 0 votes performance, whose perspectives we are following, never addressed that issue.

3. During the Episode 10 training camp, Dia attempts to explain the history of Love Live post Muse in detail. We would have almost certainly learned the fate of the OIRC, had she gotten the opportunity to brief Aqours on the competitive landscape Aqours was facing. As it was, Mari's fake plastic eyes, and Chika's older sister ensured we never end up learning just what happened to OIRC after Muse disbanded in detail.

4. In Episode 12, when Aqours visits Tokyo once more, there is another trailer for Love Live announcing and promoting the finals. Once again, that trailer would have likely shown us which group won the last Love Live ,and since that was Alisa and Yukiho's last year, and we know the OIRC was still recruiting then from the movie, seeing that trailer would have almost certainly confirmed the status of the OIRC then. As it was, the episode deliberately cut away from the trailer, and I'm not sure whether any member of Aqours saw any of it.

In other words, even OIRC won five times in a row, we had ample opportunity in anime to learn whether or not OIRC has been stunningly successful even after Muse, and after all the original members of Muse graduated from the club. In all four opportunities I've identified, each of these scenes deliberately contrived things so as not to give us an answer to the current fate of the OIRC or indeed, who are the monster groups at the top of the Love Live totem pole right now. All we know Saint Snow is not at the top of that pole, and Aqours is even further down. Yet if Aqours is going to pull off a dark-horse victory in season 2, we'd probably will learn just what lies above Saint Snow.

So I think the authors are deliberately hiding the fate of OIRS deliberately, and who inhabits the top of the Love Live world. We may learn much more in season 2 about what else other Saint Snow, Aqours is up against.


Part 2: Is it possible for OIRC to be highly successful, even in the context of the claim from the mysterious third year Otonokizaka student, that Muse left nothing?

We know from this episode that Muse took EVERY trophy away - we don't know when this happened - it could have begun when the Third Years left the club. We also know that the third year Otonokizaka student, who should be Alisa and Yukiho's direct Kohai seems to know a great deal about Muse and even what's inside the current OIRC club room - to the point she can tell Aqours with all confidence that no matter how far all members of Muse are from one another, they will always be connected; and that Muse left no physical trace of their triumphs in the school and the OIRC club room. Neither trophy, and probably not even pictures.

Note of course, she doesn't exactly tell us out-right whether this also means that the OIRC is gone. On one hand, you could argue that as late as last year, Muse did leave behind the OIRC. But I think the alternate way of seeing things is this: the OIRC was perpetuated by individuals, some from Muse, and some not. As such, the OIRC is not Muse legacy - if anything, it's Nico Yazawa's legacy as the founder of the OIRC, and she's the least well known member in Muse. The club is not the unit. Units come and go with each year, but the club outlast them all. As such, the club is never a legacy of a single unit, and hence can never be the legacy of Muse. So yes, I think there can be a very successful OIRC, and yet a student of Otonokizaka can turn around and also claim that Muse left nothing behind. In-fact, a successful OIRC even without any members of Muse present arguably strengthens the claim that the OIRC is not the legacy of any one team that fought in Love Live in the name of Otonokizaka.

I'd say there's another possible argument for OIRC success, at least as long any members of Muse was around. Which means, until Maki, Hanayo and Rin graduated. We know Muse is legendary. And this seems quite strange, considering they only one Love Live. But what if, the various members of Muse went on to win multiple Love Lives? If Maki, Hanayo and Rin won three Love Lives in three different groups (or did extremely well and were always top contenders that ranked in the top 2 or 3), I think that would have both kept the memory of Muse extremely alive in the minds of the School Idol community and extremely current EVEN when Dia, Mari and Kanan were in their first year.

I do want to end with a final possible counter-argument. Dia hinted that the bar was set even higher than when Muse was around. It could well be very possible that OIRC never actually went on a winning streak (though every group every year may always have been top contenders); showing that the "successors" to Muse are beatable. Especially if OIRC regained their success later on and won their later Post-Muse victories, presuming it happened; precisely because the club mastered the art of walking their own paths and reinventing themselves, quite sometime before Chika came to the realization that this is what Aqours must do to change zero into one.

Whatever the case, we probably won't be getting answers till season 2. But I think this is one potentially interesting avenue to explore, once the inevitable Season 2 speculations occur after this season ends. I'm almost certain we'd get a season 2 announcement after the final episode, given just how many plot-threads have been left hanging, and how Episode 12 seems to have set off so many more potential plot-conflicts and threads in a single episode.

And yes, I hope for glorious Sub-unit battles and Guilty Kiss forming the shock spear-head differentiating Aqours from Muse. Because Guilty Kiss is probably the most un-Muse like element in the entirety of Aqours; with the exception of the KISS metal costumes that Muse wore during the second season when discussing about changing their image. I won't be surprised if Guilty Kiss was deliberately designed to take that gag, and turn it into the premise of an entire sub-unit. Guilty Kiss vs Saint Snow deathmatch next season please!

P.s: By the way Nork, if that girl from Otonokizaka is the current president of the Otonokizaka Idol Research Group and a possible rival for next season, she might quite literally be the closest thing to a Cameo from one of the members of Muse herself, especially if that girl was personally trained and mentored, by Maki, Hanayo or Rin. I get the impression she spoke of Muse as if she knew at least some members of Muse personally - which she would have if she was in the OIRC during Maki, Hanayo and Rin's last year.

[SleepingTerror]

Originally Posted by playmaker2k

The nostalgia of those places got to me especially the river/bridge scene.

I gave this episode a relatively high score mostly because of the beautiful scenery. That train station ;w;

Give me my sub-unit battle

Yes.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by novalysis

Part 1: Are the authors hiding the fate of OIRC deliberately?

Part 2: Is it possible for OIRC to be highly successful, even in the context of the claim from the mysterious third year Otonokizaka student, that Muse left nothing?

You missed the most blantant opportunity the authors made to talk all they wanted to about the fate of ORIC, yet never actually used it. Riko was an Otonokizaka student in her first year of high school and only transferred out during her second year. Yet, somehow, she doesn't know a thing about school idols until Chika started talking to her about it. At the least, that implies the Otonokizaka team didn't win last year, because there's no way the principal wouldn't have announced to the school that they did.
For an example from a personal perspective, it's been decades since I graduated high school myself, but I can still tell you my high school's Computer Club won a programming competition twice consecutively during my time there, because the principal announced those victories during weekly assembly.
There's no way a school principal would miss announcing their school's entry winning a national-level competition like Love Live. The only way Riko could have missed that was if she had been absent that day.
Another thing, look at all the effort that Muses and Aquors put into publicizing their performances. This would be basic exercise for School Idol groups that are aiming to win what is essentially a national popularity contest. It would be difficult for Riko to miss that kind of activity while she was at Otonokizaka, unless it didn't happen while she was there. This suggest that, during the year plus that Riko was there, OIRC was possibly dead.
Whether OIRC remains active and fielding teams is for the authors to potentially address in LLS S2. Given how completely they appear to want to close the book on the original group, we may never hear about Otonokizaka again.

On other things.
1. Why did Muse leave nothing behind? On rewatching LL S1 and S2 bits for some info, a practical reason occurs to me. The OIRC clubroom is small. If it was loaded with five years of junk from past teams, there wouldn't be any space left for members to actually use the room.

2. Is the Otonokizaka student Aquors met a third year? In most shows I've seen where different colored ribbons are used to denote different grades, it's more frequent to see the students keep the same color ribbon throughout their whole three years and that color gets given to the next class of first years after they graduate.
I've heard about the alternative, where the students change ribbons each year, but I've never seen an anime where this system is actually used.
The only way that student is a third year is if Otonokizaka uses the latter system, but I don't know of any scene that conclusively says it does. That would be scenes of the Muses girls in uniform before or after the school year the series took place.
By the more common system, the student would be a second year, she entered the school the year after Alisa and Yukiho graduated. Incidentally, she'd be Riko's contemporary in that case.

[Hooves]

I'm sorry I had to...

Overall about the episode I'm conflicted only at specific parts. It's not a bad episode for me, but it's not entirely enlightening either.

[Kotohono]

I was a bit mixed about this episode personally overall.

Riko's doujins scenes were really fun & humorous , to me that will always be Yuri doujins that she didn't want Chika to see.

Saint Snow being confirmed for UTX's current school idols make me think again about prior speculations... that I think they're secretly Nico's 2 younger sisters using aliases, the designs are strikingly similar with proper eye colors, similar hair color & styles, even personalities and they have a lot of respect for A-rise & µ's. Since Nico dreamed of UTX I could totally see them going there. And was interesting to see their PoV on the subject and love live a bit more.

I am personally not taking the word of a mysterious girl who vanishes into the wind too strongly regarding the actions of µ's, as I rather dislike the notion that even pictures were too much to leave behind somehow and the not!Honoka child just felt way over the top and unnecessary to me. Was good to see them give thanks at least to µ's & otonokizaka this episode.

The beach scene & chika's 'letter' were good, but not great for me could have been better done I felt, still it got the point across well enough. Though Chika's taking down her µ's poster rubs me the wrong a way a bit.

[novalysis]

I just one to bring up one issue before replying to Jimmy's excellent and thought provoking response.

How could Saint Snow be from UTX if they were participating in the Hokkaido qualifiers? Unless, UTX has branches across Japan, and Saint Snow is from the Hokkaido/Sapporo branch.

I've a crack theory now building further on the UTX has branches idea. UTX fields multiple formidable Idol Groups every year, from different branches. These idol groups are actually consolidated into a confederation registered as a Club in the UTX student body, with members in every UTX branch. A-RISE is the inspiration and considered the true founders of said confederation. Budget, composition support, training methodologies and schedules and other necessities to participate in Love Live are aided by the said confederation, whose Idol Groups in each branch tend not to be 9 girl affairs, but usually duos or trios; since these aspects greatly benefit from economies of scale. A large portion of the top-teams in Love Live hail from that UTX School Idol Confederation, of which Saint Snow are but one sub-unit of. This was why Dia began with A-RISE in her lecture about the competitive landscape of the modern Love Live - because all UTX groups call A-RISE their ancestor and founder, and UTX groups are a very big force in the modern Love Live competition. She might have even been trying to explain to Aqours that Saint Snow was just one example of that sprawling Empire, but a good example. Dia was cut off, because her world-building explanation would have given away the plot of season 2.

Basically, UTX and Saint Snow is a jab Love Live is making at AKB48 and IMAS, or perhaps Sakura Gakuin. The set-up is being animated right now, the punch-line will come next season during the Saint Snow-Aqours rivalry saga.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

You missed the most blantant opportunity the authors made to talk all they wanted to about the fate of ORIC, yet never actually used it. Riko was an Otonokizaka student in her first year of high school and only transferred out during her second year. Yet, somehow, she doesn't know a thing about school idols until Chika started talking to her about it. At the least, that implies the Otonokizaka team didn't win last year, because there's no way the principal wouldn't have announced to the school that they did.

If Otonokizaka did not win last year, this must have been quite disappointing for Alisa and Yukiho, since this was probably the first team the OIRC field where none of the members were from the original Muse.

Then again.... keep in mind that Riko has been extremely evasive about her time in Otonokizaka. I'm not sure whether she has been completely clean with Chika over her time there. For all we know, there could be way more to her reluctance to visting Otonokizaka than simply humiliating herself while possibly representing the school as a pianist. Or that's simply reading too deeply

For an example from a personal perspective, it's been decades since I graduated high school myself, but I can still tell you my high school's Computer Club won a programming competition twice consecutively during my time there, because the principal announced those victories during weekly assembly.
There's no way a school principal would miss announcing their school's entry winning a national-level competition like Love Live. The only way Riko could have missed that was if she had been absent that day.

This is a very valid point. Especially when you consider that if the principal/chairwoman remained the same, her very daughter won the competition at least once - if not twice or thrice (depending on whether Love Live runs twice a year). Of all the chairwomans in Japanese Schools, she probably knows the most about just how significant Love Live is; and how much commitment, creativity, responsibility and hard work is needed to win such a competition. I have no doubt if OIRC won the title again, they would have gotten a very public victory announcement or even parade. Especially if this is the first year they were competing where nobody from Muse was participating.

Another thing, look at all the effort that Muses and Aquors put into publicizing their performances. This would be basic exercise for School Idol groups that are aiming to win what is essentially a national popularity contest. It would be difficult for Riko to miss that kind of activity while she was at Otonokizaka, unless it didn't happen while she was there. This suggest that, during the year plus that Riko was there, OIRC was possibly dead.

Again true. But, depending on how we interpret time-line, Riko was there in "year four" of the Love Live competition. Which is the year Alisa and Yukiho were still recruiting for the OIRC, as shown in the movies. It would be a downer if that scene in a movie actually turned out to be a tragedy where OIRC failed to show up for the Love Live of that year. Once again, if Alisa and Yukiho were still in Otonokizaka during Riko's first year, that calls Riko's supposed ignorance about School Idols into question.

Once again, I am starting to wonder whether Riko is being completely honest about her time in Otonokizaka. She might be, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out she has not disclosed everything to Chika, and Chika knew all along and decided to respect that.

Of course, if we push everything ahead by one year, then Alisa and Yukiho would have graduated the year before Riko enrolled. Under that circumstances, it might have been possible that the OIRC died without Alisa and Yukiho's leadership; and Muse and their sisters decided that it was for the best. Any refounding of OIRC will then be a discontinuity that definitely frees all members from the shadow of Muse.

Whether OIRC remains active and fielding teams is for the authors to potentially address in LLS S2. Given how completely they appear to want to close the book on the original group, we may never hear about Otonokizaka again.

It is true that we might never hear about Otonokizaka again. On the other hand, this episode also allows them to introduce an OIRC idol group while somewhat credibly presenting them as not Muse, especially if they learned the lesson Aqours just did a long time ago.

Especially if Sunshine decides to start asking in detail: what happens to Aqours and the club Chika re-founded, once the Third years graduate? Since Love Live Sunshine often takes the same conflicts in the OG (and there are going to be some conflicts in the OG that inevitably will break out for Aqours too, such as the distinction between Club and School Idol group) and examine them more sharply and in greater detail and with a different execution; the issue about Club and Group may emerge in Season 2.

Also keep in mind - there's a distinct "First Six" in Aqours and the Third Years. The form of Aqours had already been greatly stabilized by the time the Third Years joined up. Indeed, it was the "First Six" of Aqours that suffered that intense bonding experience that getting a zero in terms of Vote, would have brought - the third years were merely background players then. It is quite possible that Mari, Kanan and Dia urges the "First Six" to retain the name Aqours, rather than disband like Muse; since Aqours started out as Six and suffered their greatest failure as six of them, not all 9. At the very least, I think the fate of OIRC will factor very strongly into what the "Six" would decide to do once they once more revert back to a group of "Six".

On other things.
1. Why did Muse leave nothing behind? On rewatching LL S1 and S2 bits for some info, a practical reason occurs to me. The OIRC clubroom is small. If it was loaded with five years of junk from past teams, there wouldn't be any space left for members to actually use the room.

If the club kept accumulating honors and accolades, I wouldn't be surprised if the OIRC leadership keeps asking their members to take home those honors and accolades. For two reasons.

One is practical: there isn't enough space as you've said.

The second is ideological: the club is distinct from the group. The accomplishments of each Group should not burden the next, trophies and accolades from previous groups only serve to tie the next group to it's predecessor; and breed complacency. If indeed, the mysterious Otonokizaka student is the president of the club or a member, then we might have just heard the current ideology of the OIRC, explained to Aqours.

Something tells me that the OIRC till the movies and if they are still around may well have a parallel hierarchy. One hierarchy concerns the roles and leadership within the Group fielded during the year - for example, who get's to be the Center, who is the master Choreographer in charge of training and so on. The second parallel hierarchy is the Presidency and Vice Presidency, which I presume is administrative and financial in nature. It is they that do the necessary paper-work for both the organizers of Love Live and the School, and secure a sufficient budget to continue club activities, and announce crucial developments to the club - just like Hanayo did for Muse. I won't be surprised, that as a rule, the President is never the Center. A tradition dating back to the time when Nico decided the next President should be Hanayo, not Honoka. In between Love Lives, when the group of the year disbands, all club leadership reverts back to the President, who holds power until the new Freshmen join, and a new group forms and a new captain chosen.

2. Is the Otonokizaka student Aquors met a third year? In most shows I've seen where different colored ribbons are used to denote different grades, it's more frequent to see the students keep the same color ribbon throughout their whole three years and that color gets given to the next class of first years after they graduate.
I've heard about the alternative, where the students change ribbons each year, but I've never seen an anime where this system is actually used.
The only way that student is a third year is if Otonokizaka uses the latter system, but I don't know of any scene that conclusively says it does. That would be scenes of the Muses girls in uniform before or after the school year the series took place.
By the more common system, the student would be a second year, she entered the school the year after Alisa and Yukiho graduated. Incidentally, she'd be Riko's contemporary in that case.

I believe the reason why posters on Reddit identified the Otonokizaka student as a third year, is because she wore a green ribbon, just like the third years when Muse was active. Did the movie showed Alisa and Yukiho in their Otonokizaka uniforms? That might provide an answer to that question.

Also, if the girl was Riko's contemporary, perhaps we should pay very close attention to Riko during the scene where Aqours interacted with that girl. Since there is a possibility that Riko does know the girl... and chooses not to share it with Chika at this time. Also, wasn't Riko messaging someone about the upcoming Piano competition during the start of episode 10? I wonder who that was - it certainly wasn't anyone from Aqours.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by Kotohono

Saint Snow being confirmed for UTX's current school idols make me think again about prior speculations...

No they aren't. From ep11, they were stated to be from Hokkaido. Either UTX is renting out their lounge or they're from a UTX in Hokkaido.

Though Chika's taking down her µ's poster rubs me the wrong a way a bit.

How wrong? Personally, I had been expecting that since ep8.
I had also been expecting someone to say, "stop talking about µ's!" since ep8, though for different reasons.

[R.LocK]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I believe the reason why posters on Reddit identified the Otonokizaka student as a third year, is because she wore a green ribbon, just like the third years when Muse was active. Did the movie showed Alisa and Yukiho in their Otonokizaka uniforms? That might provide an answer to that question.

They wore green ribbons. And yes, they do change ribbons once they go up a grade, since Eli and Nozomi wore blue ribbons when they enrolled.

Also, it's Hanayo.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

No they aren't. From ep11, they were stated to be from Hokkaido. Either UTX is renting out their lounge or they're from a UTX in Hokkaido.

If they are from a UTX Hokkaido, that might have interesting implications on the competitive landscape of Love Live? Might not UTX be fielding multiple sub-unit size groups in Love Live?

In-fact, I hope they come from UTX Hokkaido, and UTX is indeed fielding many teams from different branches of sub-unit size - because that might just be the catalyst for sub-units to be introduced into Sunshine, and the path to seeing Guilty Kiss animated.

[outlaw97]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

How wrong? Personally, I had been expecting that since ep8.
I had also been expecting someone to say, "stop talking about µ's!" since ep8, though for different reasons.

I was waiting for someone to comment on that - I'm in the same camp in thinking it was a bit much. Yes, up until now the show has been using u's as a crutch, and I think people have been right to criticize it. So this episode was great as a formal way to break free from that, but some of it may have been too blunt. The two main methods:

1. Nothing of u's left at the school - I get the intention and theme of the message, and I'm pretty ok with it, since it also has been a few years since u's won. But it seems extreme to have nothing remain, especially when the one student that talks about it may or may not actually be real thanks to that artistic move to have her vanish right after talking with Chika.

2. Chika taking the poster down - now THIS I'm having a bit of an issue with. Yes Chika, I'm glad you realized that chasing after shadows is not the way to go. And yes, from the writers point of view it's hard to come up with a visual way of representing that. But are you so insecure that seeing ANYTHING related to u's is not good for you? I predict by the end of season 2, that blank space will be replaced with a poster of Aqours.

So yes, I can see what the staff and writers were trying to do, but I can also see some fans taking it the wrong way; it's almost like they are now erasing every trace of u's existence.

But hey, now we can look forward to Episode 1 of Love Live Sunshine next week!

[Triple_R]

Great post by outlaw97.

It's very similar to my own take on this episode, hitting 2 of my 3/4 main issues with it. I found this episode extremely heavy-handed and blunt, lacking in a nicer nuance or precision or subtlety that would have made it better for me.

I really would have preferred it if Sunshine had simply been Aqours story, with no-to-extremely minimal μ's references, the entire way through.

If this was supposed to be heartwarming to me, or fanservice to me, it most certainly was not. I would have preferred nothing at all from the OG compared to what we did get. At least nothing after the 1st episode, as I can understand that being the way it is just to bring the same fans back again.


I did like Riko not telling Chika about Riko's big award. That was interesting, and the one area (other than some of the comedy) where I found the writing clever.

Visuals were great of course.

[Tempester]

Originally Posted by outlaw97

But hey, now we can look forward to Episode 1 of Love Live Sunshine next week!

ASuki quote of the year right here. So true.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by novalysis

keep in mind that Riko has been extremely evasive about her time in Otonokizaka. I'm not sure whether she has been completely clean with Chika over her time there.

But Riko explicitly stated she knew nothing about school idols back in ep2. If there's no way she could have missed knowing about school idol events while in Otonokizaka, then she was lying about it and still hasn't come clean to Chika after all this time and experiences. That doesn't look good on her, especially if she had bad experiences with idol groups back then.
If she's honest, then either there were no events or the then current group was so incompetent they weren't even able to make themselves known to their own school.

Did the movie showed Alisa and Yukiho in their Otonokizaka uniforms? That might provide an answer to that question.

Alisa and Yukiho had green ribbons as Otonokizaka students in the last scene in the movie. I checked to confirm when I wrote the post you quoted.
Also, they were addressing a roomful of blue-ribbons. The most likely scenario is they were third years addressing first years interested in the club. Unfortunately, it doesn't shed light on which ribbon system Otonokizaka uses, because both can fit that scenario. Also, under no circumstances could they have been second years or addressing second years in that scene.

Originally Posted by R.LocK

And yes, they do change ribbons once they go up a grade, since Eli and Nozomi wore blue ribbons when they enrolled.

Thanks, it's nice to have confirmation. Where was this scene(s)? I'd like to see for myself too.
Since the Otonokizaka student is definitely a third year, it's even more reasonable for Riko not to know her.

Originally Posted by outlaw97

But are you so insecure that seeing ANYTHING related to u's is not good for you?

I see. Now I get where you and Triple_R might be coming from, even if I don't agree with it. The way I see it, in most scenes involving that poster, Chika has been looking up and/or reaching out to that poster, I am sure you know why.
But now, she needs to make a clean break from the past. It's a ritual to tell herself, she can't do that anymore. If she ever puts that poster up again, it'll be after Aquors has also won Love Live as well, and she can look at µ's again as equals.
It may be blunt, but I wouldn't consider it insecure. It's not that she can't look at µ's, but she cannot look at this poster the way she used to, as a security blanket.

And speaking of clean breaks, I can believe OIRC members do not take their trophies home on graduation. It's not an individual victory, after all. Instead, the trophies are stored in the school archives. The only time club members get to see the old trophies is when they put away their own trophies to join the old ones, and can show that they have become equals to their predecessors.

Also on OIRC, for two years after µ's, it could have fielded two idol groups at the same time. I wonder how did that work out?