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Old 2010-09-03, 23:13   Link #141
Hunter
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
The one that breaks this trend is Hidan who was a bastard from the get go. The ninja world did not change him. He actually scorned his village for being peaceful and serene. He sought conflict and attracted the Jashin cult through his violent actions. He probably would have been the only Akatsuki not given a flashback since he was truly evil and served no other purpose than to develop Shikamaru.
Hidan is actually a perfect example of what I'm talking about, a ninja who turned battle-drunk and couldn't adapt when the era became more peaceful. Hidan represents sheer violence and bloodlust, he sought Jashin because his life meant nothing if it wasn't a perpetual battlefield.

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Deidara also didn't seem a product of his environment. Deidara was admired as a genius by Iwa. They still speak of him with respect. But he seemed to be mad from the beginning. Only caring about seeking greater aspirations for his "art". So he stole a forbidden ninjutsu(chakra infusion)and fled Iwa, turning into a terrorist.
Deidara is a more complicated case because he's the one we know the least about but even him represent a "ninja sin" I believe : he was the love of destruction. So in love with the concept itself that it became a form of art for him and his ultimate "creation" could only be made through suicide, the destruction of self.

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Some people are just bad eggs.
I don't think it's true in this story. Kishimoto nearly always goes to great length to show that the true vilain is the ninja system that twist the hearts of men.
And this "sin" itself is probably represented by Madara right now.
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Old 2010-09-03, 23:41   Link #142
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So Tobi is looking for Nagatos eyes?? I guess he didnt finish reading that tablet...
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Old 2010-09-04, 00:46   Link #143
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he's gonna need it to have full control over the ten tail beast
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Old 2010-09-04, 06:53   Link #144
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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
So Tobi is looking for Nagatos eyes?? I guess he didnt finish reading that tablet...
Tobi collecting even rinnegan eyes might be another clue that he is not really that Madara guy, and not even Uchiha. In this manga those who are most obsessed with special eyes are those who have no such special bloodline, such as Danzou and Orochimaru were.

It would be nice if the final villain was an Uzumaki. We learned that the clan was destroyed and those who survived have scattered around the world. Sure these people hate the ninja system, it is the ninja system created by the 1st hokage that resulted in the destruction of the Uzumaki clan. Also Konoha just took advantage of their alliance, when they needed a host they got it but whey didn't help the Uzumaki clan out when they were destroyed. So a very angry survivor would want to destroy the whole ninja system, and in particular Konoha. That survivor would have a long lifespan and high level of sealing and other jutsu which he could have used to actually create Madara/Tobi (or both of them if they are two different entities). If Kabuto summoned Madara's soul then maybe the "Madara" that we did see is Madara's soulless body enhanced by Zetsu and controlled by this final villain.

Another clue is that this masked man wants to create some kind of peace, even if everybody becomes his slave it is still peace. But for the Madara we know of war was everything, he was such a warrior type which always wanted to fight, such a man would never want peace, where he cannot do what he likes best.

If the final villain was not an Uchiha but an Uzumaki, it would also center the story more around Naruto and less around Sasuke, the story in part 2 of the manga has been centered too much around Sasuke and his clan.
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Old 2010-09-04, 10:20   Link #145
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what if tobi is kakashi from the future? and the hole is the side of kakashi's sharingan? and the jutsu he uses is kamui but perfected with his white chakra? which would explain his going on about special chakra? And he will be revealed soon which is why this is the year of kakashi?</sarcasm>
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Old 2010-09-04, 11:25   Link #146
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
I don't think it's true in this story. Kishimoto nearly always goes to great length to show that the true vilain is the ninja system that twist the hearts of men.
And this "sin" itself is probably represented by Madara right now.
I agree there. Even Danzou, who was one of the most corrupted individuals with the most twisted sense of morality, was shown in a more understanding light towards the end.

As for Kisame, my only dissapointment was that he lost to Gai. Mainly dissapointed because in the end too much of Kisame's strength came from samehada.
I hope Kishi doesn't drag this out with Konan. If Tobi doesn't at least use some fire jutsu against her I'll consider him severely dumbed down for this fight.
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Old 2010-09-04, 12:27   Link #147
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
fixed that for ya.
I don't see a point of him lieing to Naruto about it.
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Old 2010-09-04, 12:38   Link #148
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Originally Posted by Cub-Sama View Post
Wait Konan wants to fight the man who was the STRONGEST Uchiha a clan that specializes in fire techniques? That plan has no downsides to it whatsoever!
May I revise your comment a bit to further increase the idiocy behind Konanīs foolproof plan?

Konan wants to fight a man who is alive since hundreads of years, has fought in numerous wars, faced, controlled and outlived many Kages and other strong shinobis, developed a technique which allows him to travel in time and space, making it nearly impossible to hit him, was and still is the strongest Uchiha, a clan, which specializes on fire techniques while she fights with Paper Jutsus during a rainstrom, surrounded by water, all alone?

That plan has no downsides to it whatsoever!

Seriously, what is this recently?
Cheap manga characters killing spree? First Claymore and now Naruto and itīs Akatsuki members.

I seriously hope Konan survives somehow and keeps her promise to aid Naruto in the upcoming Shinobi war.
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Last edited by matsunaga_hisahide; 2010-09-04 at 14:09. Reason: Some small content changes
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Old 2010-09-04, 12:57   Link #149
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^Yeah it seems to me as if Kishi is trying to kill off all the bad guys very quickly and fights are becoming shorter and shorter and IMO it makes the fights and the bad guys look disappointing despite being hyped up so much.
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Old 2010-09-04, 15:49   Link #150
Artimus_Prime
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Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
Tobi collecting even rinnegan eyes might be another clue that he is not really that Madara guy, and not even Uchiha. In this manga those who are most obsessed with special eyes are those who have no such special bloodline, such as Danzou and Orochimaru were.

It would be nice if the final villain was an Uzumaki. We learned that the clan was destroyed and those who survived have scattered around the world. Sure these people hate the ninja system, it is the ninja system created by the 1st hokage that resulted in the destruction of the Uzumaki clan. Also Konoha just took advantage of their alliance, when they needed a host they got it but whey didn't help the Uzumaki clan out when they were destroyed. So a very angry survivor would want to destroy the whole ninja system, and in particular Konoha. That survivor would have a long lifespan and high level of sealing and other jutsu which he could have used to actually create Madara/Tobi (or both of them if they are two different entities). If Kabuto summoned Madara's soul then maybe the "Madara" that we did see is Madara's soulless body enhanced by Zetsu and controlled by this final villain.

Another clue is that this masked man wants to create some kind of peace, even if everybody becomes his slave it is still peace. But for the Madara we know of war was everything, he was such a warrior type which always wanted to fight, such a man would never want peace, where he cannot do what he likes best.

If the final villain was not an Uchiha but an Uzumaki, it would also center the story more around Naruto and less around Sasuke, the story in part 2 of the manga has been centered too much around Sasuke and his clan.
I like this notion, however, i couldnt cosign the idea of an uzumaki final villain because I would prefer the uzumaki name stay on the side of good...as a clan very proficient in very powerful sealing jutsu and closely connected to the senju and the rikudo sennin, i am led to believe that uzumaki naruto will be allowed to put end to this ninja problem (with a powerful sealing technique) wilthout interference from a long lost clansmen...besides i dont think there is any bad blood between the uzumakis and konoha...sure the clan was destroyed but i dont think konoha neglected to help

as for Konan, i think she is being underestimated...shes not gonna win but she has known Tobi long enough (at least since Tobi taught nagato about the gedo statue) to if not but for a brief period exploit an unknown Tobi weakness
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Old 2010-09-04, 20:28   Link #151
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
fixed that for ya.
It's been pretty well established that Madara was telling the truth because of the flashbacks. If he had been just talking, sure it might have been a lie, but the flashbacks more or less confirm it.

So nice try.
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Old 2010-09-04, 20:39   Link #152
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*Remember's FF7 Cloud's flash backs*, oh yea those were wrong/lies too until he told the REAL story.
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Old 2010-09-04, 21:27   Link #153
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what he told naruto was pretty much truth, what he told sasuke was half and half.
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Old 2010-09-04, 22:39   Link #154
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
I don't see a point of him lieing to Naruto about it.
Actually, If what he told to sasuke was a lie, then yes there would be a point... afterall he wouldn't want to take the risk that Naruto might tell sasuke something different and Sasuke actually listening... Madara's got to keep his story straight

Not saying that's what happened, just saying
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Old 2010-09-04, 23:15   Link #155
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Originally Posted by matsunaga_hisahide View Post
I seriously hope Konan survives somehow and keeps her promise to aid Naruto in the upcoming Shinobi war.
She is keeping her promise to aid Naruto right now. Killing Madara would end the war before it even starts and protect Naruto. While the readers can shake their heads over her chances, she seems pretty confident she can do it.

It will be interesting to compare what Konan does to Madara to Fu and Torune. I don't think I would be out of line thinking they were each around Yamato's level. Konan is much higher up on the character food chain than those two minor tertiary characters. They were able to at least get a hit in. But ultimately were minor nuisances and discarded like trash.
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Old 2010-09-05, 00:43   Link #156
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^Here's hoping Konan finally gets Madara to show us something new...though since Minato couldn't even get Madara to break routine, I'm leery of Konan being able to do anything substantive (not that the two figths will be necessarily comparable)...
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Old 2010-09-05, 01:16   Link #157
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though since Minato couldn't even get Madara to break routine.....[]
Hm, it seemed like it was *Madara* that couldn't get Madara to break routine. He seems to be pretty limited in regards to fighting techniques.


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(not that the two figths will be necessarily comparable)...
Call me crazy but I believe this fight just might be much better. The flashback was pretty epic, but mostly because of Minato, the things at stake (Naruto & Kushina), and all the emotional build up, lets just be honest here, the fight really wasn't a big deal. Madara did nothing special really, and in fact he looked pretty lack luster considering who he is supposed to be. Again, I really hope he is severely weakened and isn't anywhere near his true power level, because I don't see the big deal in Naruto (or Sasuke for that matter) beating this guy as he is; especially after watching him being defeated so easily. Konan was easily neutralized by Jiraiya and i understand why people are pessimistic about this match up, but I really have my hopes up. Konan will be fighting for Nagato in a way, and she really seems to have conviction (and an ace up her sleeve). Regardless of what happens, I actually think this will be an entertaining fight, I bet more entertaining than Madara being beaten in a flash - pardon the pun.
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Old 2010-09-05, 07:30   Link #158
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Hm, it seemed like it was *Madara* that couldn't get Madara to break routine. He seems to be pretty limited in regards to fighting techniques.
Im near convinced Madara/someone else is manipulating this Tobi character from the shadows. i dont necessarily like the notion since we have already seen this from Pain, but Tobi seems pretty chakraless having never performed ninjutsu (please correct me if im mistaken) and his battle strategy in his encounters seem to be a "grab and snatch" routine with the goal to take the opponent to his void dimension.

I am excited about the Konan vs Tobi battle cuz as i mentioned before, shes known this dude long enough to be able to exploit something...
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Old 2010-09-05, 09:06   Link #159
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I like this notion, however, i couldnt cosign the idea of an uzumaki final villain because I would prefer the uzumaki name stay on the side of good...
I don't think that Kishi wants us to view this world in black and white, good and evil, and so every clan and every man has it's good and bad side. Just look at the scene where Naruto says to Sasuke that they could have standed in each other's place if history went in a somewhat different way (that was when Sasuke had rasengan and Naruto chidori in one picture). We also could see the "inner naruto" at the waterfall. Even Kisame had something good in him, despite being a monster ninja. So you can't just say that everybody within the Uzumaki clan will be on the good side. The whole history of hatred that is now a central theme of the manga has very much influenced the fate of the Uzumaki clan. So whoever survived sure can be very well on the evil/destructive side of the story.

What we could see at the kage meeting was that the guy who says he is Madara is giving away his plans too easily. Did he really believe that the kages will agree to his plan? Or maybe he just wanted to reaffirm his belief that the ninjas would choose war over peace and so he is right that the ninja system must be destroyed? In the latter case he did it just to calm down his conscience, that the world has not become better and he has the right to destroy this system.

BTW it would be a nice plot twist if Konan and the alliance forces kill Madara/Tobi now, just to find out that it was a controlled body and they don't know the truth
And of course in the meantime Zetsu steals the eyes

Unfortunately even if there are more and more clues that the masked man is not exactly Madara, still there are even more hard facts that he is indeed Madara. The way he talks about himself shows that he has to be Madara, anyone else would probably not talk like that. But we have already seen extremly unlikely scenarios, for example Itachi's story.
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Old 2010-09-05, 10:07   Link #160
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As for Kisame, my only dissapointment was that he lost to Gai. Mainly dissapointed because in the end too much of Kisame's strength came from samehada.
I hope Kishi doesn't drag this out with Konan. If Tobi doesn't at least use some fire jutsu against her I'll consider him severely dumbed down for this fight.
What possible difference could Samehada have made in the fight? It allows Kisame to absorb chakra directly...but Guy didn't use chakra. It allows Kisame to breath and be very agile under water...which Guy blasted apart. And I really don't think it'd be a good idea to use it as a sword against what is apparently the series greatest taijutsu user with seven gates open.

Plus, Kisame's final jutsu was pretty serious. I don't think there's any indication the loss of his sword actually made him weaker. Sure, he lost some of his chakra absorption capabilities and shark-form, but he's clearly still capable of performing jutsu that may be different, but are at least as powerful. He lost some versatility, not strength.
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