Macross Frontier - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by musouka

I'm not upset. This ep has a lot for me to take in. Overall, I think it points towards a Sheryl/Alto ending, but I don't really feel like arguing right now because my heart hurts so badly for Sheryl at the moment.

Sheryl is experiencing what my friend calls Misa Hayase syndrome

if the trend continues she'll probably sing one of Ranka's songs the next episode

[Marina Ismail]

Originally Posted by Key Board

Sheryl is experiencing what my friend calls Misa Hayase syndrome

if the trend continues she'll probably sing one of Ranka's songs the next episode

Hm... that sounds nice. I hope it's Aimo. I'm really damn tired of that song but hearing a different vocal for it might spice things up.

[Seifall]

Originally Posted by crisis

*throws more fuel into the fire*

Flashback of Ranshe and Grace arguing while Ranka and Brera watches...

Ranka : "Why are our moms fighting?"

I imagine Brera saying : " who is my mom you traitor " ^^

Originally Posted by wolfboy

It's hilarious to see how much Seifall's posts really upset Sheryl fans this much. It's one poster's opinion! Get over it! Ranka fans have to deal with like twenty pro-Sheryl Seifalls on a daily basis lol

Really ,one opinion in sheryl's land and they want so bad to keep my big trap
shut !! Get over it! He is right !

Originally Posted by monir

ha-ha. Aneeshdac also diagrees. However, I do see the point you are both making even if I didn't come to a similar conclusion. As I've said, my opinion isn't a very popular one.

It's good to see you are enjoying yourself Seifall. Just try not to rub it in too much out of consideration. Be a good sport. The twist and turn thus far in the series hasn't followed a consistent line, so the remaining two episode can lean toward any conclusion. All we can do is to hold our breath and enjoy the ride. Good night!

You're right, I enjoyed myself too much it seems that the smiley were too expressive of my humor ^^
All we can do is to hold our breath and enjoy the ride. Good night! !! Yes goodnight it was fun!! I hope it will be like that for the last ones
Be a good sport. like I am with ... my consciousness
I'm just joking here,people should know it by now, and really it's an anime we are here to laugh not to age out of frustration !!
So let's enjoy the show .

[kari-no-sugata]

Originally Posted by monir

Any Kawamori-fan will be very proud of him because of how he has gotten his audience invest so much of their emotion to his story. My opinion isn't one of the popular one, unfortunately, but I'll give it anyway.

Well, when all is said and done, it's entertainment after all...

When Klan asked, "Alto, sore ga omae` no ai ka?"... she isn't exactly asking Alto who is he going to pick for his romantic interest, rather, .. she is making a very sad observation. Let me elaborate. Does Alto like Sheryl? Yes. Does Alto like Ranka? Yes. Alto also likes the people who chooses to live in this fragile world. Alto is declaring that he wouldn't mind killing one of his loved one if it means avoiding mass destruction for those people. From that line of thought, it seems, Alto's definition of "love" is too vast, so it renders him unable to be tied down by the affection of one or two people. I think that's what Klan realizes just now, and Sheryl has been into such realization for some time already. They can love him all they want, but he is incapable of returning it to either of them to their liking because of his scope of perception.

Alto's revelation seems kinda incomplete to me. However, I think part of what he was running away from was he said he didn't like Frontier, but actually he really does care about the place.

btw, my interpretation of Sheryl's line was not "I understood" but "I knew" - knew that Alto likes/loved Ranka more than her (maybe that's why she teased him so bad). And though she knew, she hopes for Alto to still be kind to her, for just a bit longer. I kinda get the feeling from the preview that she's nearly at death's door - she's not exactly trying to live as long as possible.

I will also be tremendously surprised if Kawamori chooses to kill either of these popular heroine, Sheryl and Ranka. Fans of these characters may not have anything to worry about for them to kick the bucket, however, the fans who have shipping in mind may end up becoming disappointed.

Well, I think Alto was rather "genre smart" this episode. I mean, right at the start he refuses to talk about girls with his team-mates due to the "Valkyrie jink"... and by declaring he's willing to kill Ranka, he's pretty much just guaranteed her survival

And next ep is rather "final battle"-ish, but given that there's a good few eps left, that allows for some final twists...

[Marina Ismail]

I also noticed that Sheryl missed half of the conversation right? Alto was talking to Klan and when she opened the door, the convo got to the part where everyone is saying he claimed he loves Ranka. :S

[MaiHikari]

Saw the episodes, a few thoughts:

Spoiler for 23:

* Why did Ranka call Grace and Ranshe "our moms" if she and Brera are sibblings? quite confusing really--and why was it Ranka's fault the vajra attacked 11 years ago?

* When asked by his subordinates if Alto and Sheryl are dating, he responded that it's a private matter and none of their business.

* Sheryl refuses to take the medicine so she can better sing to save Frontier. She tells Luca to not randomly throw pity her way because she might just take advantage of it. This shows that Sheryl believes those who are kind to her at this moment are doing it out of pity, including Alto. This is prior to her hearing his conversation with Klan. She has already concluded that a dying woman like her is only good for pity, without ever confirming it with Alto. Her words at the end is reflecting her lack of confidence in love, not necessarily the truth behind Klan and Alto's conversation.

* It's interesting to note the conversation between Alto and his brother. His brother wants him to consider what he wants and if fighting and killing is really what he wished for. This is reaffirmed with Klan's question: "is this your form of love?" In my opinion, that question is after all a question, not an answer. She thinks Alto's view of love, if it is true, is quite sad--meaning to kill someone close to him in order to protect everyone else. But she is asking him, because she doesn't think that that is his true form of love. Again, the series wants Alto to consider an alternative solution to the war other than killing off the enemy.

* Alto joined SMS to protect Ranka, and now to protect the rest of Frontier, he is willing to kill Ranka. There are a few ways to interpret this. The first, which was brought up in this forum, and I don't agree with: Alto wants to kill Ranka for her own good because he loves her and doesn't want to see her turn bad. If that is what Alto's thinking, then he's just selfishly using "Ranka's sake" as an excuse to kill her, despite her own wishes to live, even to live with him. In this case, he is a coward and a hypocrite. The second, which is reaffirmed by the theme of the series and by Alto's brother and Klan's words, is that he simply wants to protect but his method is really the wrong way to do it. He can't protect something by destroying something else. That is not what love means. Thus, what Klan wants to tell Alto in this episode is not referring to Alto's romantic love, but his misguided methods.

* Sheryl can't cook. And when Alto tries to tend to her wound, she backs away from him, showing that she doesn't want him to tend to her sickness. She puts back on the fake smile he told her to take off in prior episode and has closed off any hopes for a future with him. Ironically, whatever wall that had crumbled between them in the last episode is back up again, even though they are living together and being together.

[wolfboy]

^^ Nice analysis. Saturday's so far away...

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

Saw the episodes, a few thoughts:

Spoiler for 23:

* Why did Ranka call Grace and Ranshe "our moms" if she and Brera are sibblings? quite confusing really--and why was it Ranka's fault the vajra attacked 11 years ago?

* When asked by his subordinates if Alto and Sheryl are dating, he responded that it's a private matter and none of their business.

* Sheryl refuses to take the medicine so she can better sing to save Frontier. She tells Luca to not randomly throw pity her way because she might just take advantage of it. This shows that Sheryl believes those who are kind to her at this moment are doing it out of pity, including Alto. This is prior to her hearing his conversation with Klan. She has already concluded that a dying woman like her is only good for pity, without ever confirming it with Alto. Her words at the end is reflecting her lack of confidence in love, not necessarily the truth behind Klan and Alto's conversation.

* It's interesting to note the conversation between Alto and his brother. His brother wants him to consider what he wants and if fighting and killing is really what he wished for. This is reaffirmed with Klan's question: "is this your form of love?" In my opinion, that question is after all a question, not an answer. She thinks Alto's view of love, if it is true, is quite sad--meaning to kill someone close to him in order to protect everyone else. But she is asking him, because she doesn't think that that is his true form of love. Again, the series wants Alto to consider an alternative solution to the war other than killing off the enemy.

* Alto joined SMS to protect Ranka, and now to protect the rest of Frontier, he is willing to kill Ranka. There are a few ways to interpret this. The first, which was brought up in this forum, and I don't agree with: Alto wants to kill Ranka for her own good because he loves her and doesn't want to see her turn bad. If that is what Alto's thinking, then he's just selfishly using "Ranka's sake" as an excuse to kill her, despite her own wishes to live, even to live with him. In this case, he is a coward and a hypocrite. The second, which is reaffirmed by the theme of the series and by Alto's brother and Klan's words, is that he simply wants to protect but his method is really the wrong way to do it. He can't protect something by destroying something else. That is not what love means. Thus, what Klan wants to tell Alto in this episode is not referring to Alto's romantic love, but his misguided methods.

* Sheryl can't cook. And when Alto tries to tend to her wound, she backs away from him, showing that she doesn't want him to tend to her sickness. She puts back on the fake smile he told her to take off in prior episode and has closed off any hopes for a future with him. Ironically, whatever wall that had crumbled between them in the last episode is back up again, even though they are living together and being together.

Great analysis and thank goodness. Another who gets the whole Alto/Klan conversation.

[indr0008]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Agreed. Right now most of us are just feeling the pain that Sheryl is going through. We hate seeing our queen getting kicked to the curb with every passing episode.

no other words to add....

[Tabris]

Is it another week of childish Sheryl fanboys voting the episode as a 1 because everyone's favourite songstress doesn't play a starring role, or is it genuinely bad?

I totally forgot that Macross aired tonight, so I'll be watching it first thing when I wake up.

[indr0008]

Originally Posted by Tabris

Is it another week of childish Sheryl fanboys voting the episode as a 1 because everyone's favourite songstress doesn't play a starring role, or is it genuinely bad?

I totally forgot that Macross aired tonight, so I'll be watching it first thing when I wake up.

haha, sorry, for me, i take the definition of painful to its core....it was painful to watch the episode...call me fanboy if u want

[Key Board]

I think Macross Frontier will end like no other Macross before it.

They'll actually manage to freaking colonize a planet at the end of their journey

[MaiHikari]

one more thing to note:

Spoiler for paper plane:

Of course Sheryl's plane won't fly! She folded it with a crumbled medical report. She made it so it wouldn't fly. It conveys her own lack of confidence and hopelessness.

It's rather lame to see it as a shipping argument for RankaxAlto. (you know who I'm talking about)

[Marina Ismail]

Originally Posted by Tabris

Is it another week of childish Sheryl fanboys voting the episode as a 1 because everyone's favourite songstress doesn't play a starring role, or is it genuinely bad?

I totally forgot that Macross aired tonight, so I'll be watching it first thing when I wake up.

I'm a fangirl, not a fanBOY

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by BuniiChan

I'm a fangirl, not a fanBOY

That's what happens when people generalize.

[Elehayym]

Originally Posted by crisis

Does anyone find it interesting that Ranka referred to Grace and Ranshe as "our mothers" to Brera in the beginning of the episode? Could Grace be Brera's mother? Are they not related, after all?

I don't think she meant "our mothers", tachi after a word is also used to generally indicate the other people there, so in this case "mama tachi" would be "mom and the other person there" (= Grace). It's pretty common to see it used like this, sorry if my explanation is crappy but dunno how to say it better in english It' also used a lot after first names, for example "Alto tachi" would be Alto and the others, and so on :O

[golthin]

Originally Posted by Tabris

Is it another week of childish Sheryl fanboys voting the episode as a 1 because everyone's favourite songstress doesn't play a starring role, or is it genuinely bad?

I totally forgot that Macross aired tonight, so I'll be watching it first thing when I wake up.

5 people scored this episode a 1 because they made sheryl cry! jeez!

[cheesie]

Originally Posted by Elehayym

I don't think she meant "our mothers", tachi after a word is also used to generally indicate the other people there, so in this case "mama tachi" would be "mom and the other person there" (= Grace). It's pretty common to see it used like this, sorry if my explanation is crappy but dunno how to say it better in english It' also used a lot after first names, for example "Alto tachi" would be Alto and the others, and so on :O

Oh no, I get you, thanks for telling me. Oh well, it was a rather sweet but short-lived dream for this ship. *is actually supporting Brera x Ranka from the shadows*

[ReddyRedWolf]

Why did Ranka call Grace and Ranshe "our moms" if she and Brera are sibblings? quite confusing really--and why was it Ranka's fault the vajra attacked 11 years ago?

Well the tachi suffix means the person with others.

So mama-tachi means Ranshe with Grace. Not that Grace is Ranka or Brera's mother.

[MaiHikari]

Originally Posted by crisis

Oh no, I get you, thanks for telling me. Oh well, it was a rather sweet but short-lived dream for this ship. *is actually supporting Brera x Ranka from the shadows*

yeah, so was I. Brera deserves something for all the sacrifices he made for Ranka, other than "gome ne~ oniichan"

Spoiler for Brera:

Looks like he became a cyborg because he protected Ranka by placing her in a shelter.