(L) Dragonball Kai: Dragonball Z's 20th Anniversary Recut!!

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Blaat

I kind of had to laugh at the random dude wearing a "I am Super Saiyan" T-shirt. I never noticed that one before.

I might have noticed that back in the day, though i sure forgot all about it.

Oh boy the preview for next weeks episode.

[LuckyCat]

You know, I thought of something while watching the part where Vegeta and Trunks exit the chamber. Trunks says Vegeta had surpassed Super Saiyan in 2 months, but for some reason felt there was more he could do. Was that Toriyama's way of foreshadowing SSJ2?

I just find it amusing in hindsight because Vegeta is going to train about another year in the chamber, but it will still take him seven more years of training to reach SSJ2.

[MushroomSamba]

Originally Posted by Shiosai

You know, I thought of something while watching the part where Vegeta and Trunks exit the chamber. Trunks says Vegeta had surpassed Super Saiyan in 2 months, but for some reason felt there was more he could do. Was that Toriyama's way of foreshadowing SSJ2?

Spoiler:

Well, Trunks says they surpassed the SSJ wall in 2 months but didn't understand why Vegeta wasn't satisfied. It sets it up for later when Trunks mistakingly thinks he reached the ultimate level (he didn't tell Vegeta as to not hurt his pride), only to realize that Vegeta reached it too, but understood it was a flawed version and not "truly" surpassing SSJ (too much muscle bulk=decreased speed, apparently). Hence why Trunks was content leaving the Time Room and Vegeta was not. At least that's how I remember it from DBZ.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Shiosai

I just find it amusing in hindsight because Vegeta is going to train about another year in the chamber, but it will still take him seven more years of training to reach SSJ2.

Eh, you don't know that for sure. It is never shown or stated exactly when in those seven years Vegeta reached SSJ2. For all we know, it might have been a few weeks after Gohan killed Cell.

Originally Posted by MushroomSamba

Spoiler:

Well, Trunks says they surpassed the SSJ wall in 2 months but didn't understand why Vegeta wasn't satisfied. It sets it up for later when Trunks mistakingly thinks he reached the ultimate level (he didn't tell Vegeta as to not hurt his pride), only to realize that Vegeta reached it too, but understood it was a flawed version and not "truly" surpassing SSJ (too much muscle bulk=decreased speed, apparently). Hence why Trunks was content leaving the Time Room and Vegeta was not. At least that's how I remember it from DBZ.

And yeah, that's definitely how it goes. Really looking forward to seeing all of that in Kai, it's great character development for Trunks.

[LuckyCat]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Eh, you don't know that for sure. It is never shown or stated exactly when in those seven years Vegeta reached SSJ2. For all we know, it might have been a few weeks after Gohan killed Cell.

These are all just guesses based on what we do know from the manga, of course We do see Vegeta only get the nerve to challenge Gohan seven years later so it seems plausible it took that long. It's also entirely possible he couldn't do it until after his power-up from Babidi, since that is the first time he does it in the story.

Originally Posted by MushroomSamba

Spoiler:

Well, Trunks says they surpassed the SSJ wall in 2 months but didn't understand why Vegeta wasn't satisfied. It sets it up for later when Trunks mistakingly thinks he reached the ultimate level (he didn't tell Vegeta as to not hurt his pride), only to realize that Vegeta reached it too, but understood it was a flawed version and not "truly" surpassing SSJ (too much muscle bulk=decreased speed, apparently). Hence why Trunks was content leaving the Time Room and Vegeta was not. At least that's how I remember it from DBZ.

Spoiler:

Thats true, but Cell states that Vegeta recognized the body-bulk weakness which is why Vegeta never pursued it. He must've been gunning for something else, probably similar to Goku and Gohan's level. Or heck, maybe he was perfecting Final Flash

There are definitely tiers to SSJ, but they aren't fleshed out in the source. In any event we know Vegeta has reached tier 2 SSJ but that's at least a step below what Goku gets and perhaps not even comparable to Gohan's levels.

[Yui Is My Wife]

I really REALLY hope they Keep Kurilin's moving and manly monologue concerning Vegeta when Cell hits Perfect:

Spoiler:

"Thanks to your selfishness, he's now Perfect. And thanks to your selfishness also, I am going to miss this magnificent battle, never seen on Earth in its history. I for one would have left you to die.... I do not understand what Trunks sees in a father like you!!

That adds so much more character to Kurilin as man and a warrior.

If they could keep BOTH of Goku's hallucinations for the Namek Arc when Freeza held him underwater (both filler material), they sure as heck must keep this short monologue.

[Blaat]

Originally Posted by Shiosai

It's also entirely possible he couldn't do it until after his power-up from Babidi, since that is the first time he does it in the story.

I always assume this was the case because the Majin seal also gives a power boost.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Shiosai

These are all just guesses based on what we do know from the manga, of course We do see Vegeta only get the nerve to challenge Gohan seven years later so it seems plausible it took that long. It's also entirely possible he couldn't do it until after his power-up from Babidi, since that is the first time he does it in the story.

...The nerve to challenge Gohan? Seriously? What would be the point of that? "Kakarott" was the only one Vegeta thought he had a score to settle with. He couldn't care less about fighting Gohan.

And the notion that Vegeta only achieved SSJ2 with Babidi's help is ridiculous. Dabura was stated by Goku to have power comparable to Perfect Cell, thus making SSJ2 necessary to beat him. Yet when Gohan fights Dabura, Vegeta reprimands him for having that much trouble against "an opponent of that level". It's obvious Vegeta had already achieved SSJ2 long before Babidi came into the fray. What that power up did was close the gap between SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ2 Goku, which only existed in the first place due to Goku's superior natural talent.

Anyway, just watched episode 77. The editing was kinda lacking and made the continuity of Vegeta vs Cell weird, but other than that, fun episode. Too bad next episode we get both Vegeta and Kuririn's facepalm inducing moments.

[Shiroth]

= My face during the whole of this weeks episode. Music placement was spot on. But yeah, next week is facepalm action, at it's best.

[MushroomSamba]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

= My face during the whole of this weeks episode. Music placement was spot on. But yeah, next week is facepalm action, at it's best.

It's almost getting redundant at this point, but man, another great job with the music this week. And yeah, as much as I wanted to get into Vegeta's newfound kickassery, I couldn't shake that knowledge in the back of my head that he's yet again setting himself up for another big ol' pile of fail. But then again, if I thought I was the biggest badass on the planet, I'd probably be a little cocky too.

[LuckyCat]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

...The nerve to challenge Gohan? Seriously? What would be the point of that? "Kakarott" was the only one Vegeta thought he had a score to settle with. He couldn't care less about fighting Gohan.

And the notion that Vegeta only achieved SSJ2 with Babidi's help is ridiculous.

Nah, he decided to enter the Budoukai after he heard Gohan was entering but before anyone knew Goku could show up.

Originally Posted by Shiroth

= My face during the whole of this weeks episode. Music placement was spot on. But yeah, next week is facepalm action, at it's best.

I really like the Goku-Gohan scene. It's cool how Kai emphasizes that because it is the climax of the arc, afterall

Oh, and Vegeta does have one more cool part in this fight despite how overpowered Cell gets.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Shiosai

Nah, he decided to enter the Budoukai after he heard Gohan was entering but before anyone knew Goku could show up.

Well yeah when Gohan came over to his house and announced he'd be entering a martial arts competition, he decided on the spot to go as well, since fighting is all he cares about. There's no denying that, what I meant was that the way you worded it you made it sound like Vegeta had wanted to challenge Gohan to a fight all those years but was afraid to do so until then, which I really don't think was the case. He wanted to prove himself to Kakarott, the one who he'd always wanted to surpass before, not his half-breed kid of a son, so it's only natural he didn't do anything to arrange a fight between them until the opportunity literally knocked on his door.

Oh, and Vegeta does have one more cool part in this fight despite how overpowered Cell gets.

True that. Hope they pick a good BGM for it.

[Yui Is My Wife]

Backtracking just a little bit to Freeza's humiliating defeat all the way back in 53...

Nakao Ryusei's performance in the recut made him TRULY pathetic, and virtually crying in agony, and you could really FEEL Goku's pain for Freeza's suffering through Yamamoto Kenji's choice of using heartbreaking and sad music during that scene.

Son Goku is a nice guy and the hero, yes. But is it screwed up of me as the audience to feel sorry for a sadistic killer of children like Freeza? Shame on me, I was on the verge of crying when I watched the Kai version of that scene, and even though I knew the outcome, I was shouting "Help him, Goku!! Please help him!!"

Yes I KNOW he's an unrepentent monster; is it wrong to cry for a devil, so to speak?

[Peanutbutter]

And so, we now see Vegeta's SSJ1.5, which is what I would call it.

Spoiler:

And Goku's SSJ1.75.

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Peanutbutter003

And so, we now see Vegeta's SSJ1.5, which is what I would call it.

Spoiler:

And Goku's SSJ1.75.

Then what would you call Trunks' state that we'll see in a few episodes?

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Then what would you call Trunks' state that we'll see in a few episodes?

Vegeta - 1.5
Trunks - 1.75
Goku - 1.95

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

SSJ1 is best categorized into 4 states: 1st Grade, 2nd Grade (the state in which Vegeta and Trunks are in right now), 3rd Grade (the bulked up form Trunks will soon assume), and Mastered (the relaxed state of SSJ1 where practically no energy is expended (having it feel "normal", if you will)).

Seeing as how SSJ2 is far more powerful than any SSJ1 form, I'd give Mastered SSJ1 a 1.35 at best. And that means that Vegeta and Trunks pale in comparison .

[secretzfan]

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife

Backtracking just a little bit to Freeza's humiliating defeat all the way back in 53...

Nakao Ryusei's performance in the recut made him TRULY pathetic, and virtually crying in agony, and you could really FEEL Goku's pain for Freeza's suffering through Yamamoto Kenji's choice of using heartbreaking and sad music during that scene.

Son Goku is a nice guy and the hero, yes. But is it screwed up of me as the audience to feel sorry for a sadistic killer of children like Freeza? Shame on me, I was on the verge of crying when I watched the Kai version of that scene, and even though I knew the outcome, I was shouting "Help him, Goku!! Please help him!!"

Yes I KNOW he's an unrepentent monster; is it wrong to cry for a devil, so to speak?

Not always I mean to me everyone deserves a second chance and Goku tried to give him one, but he didn't allow it and attacked giving Goku no choice but to kill him.
In my belief there are no pure evil people in this world because everyone has a reason and isn't that there crazy

[Frenchie]

Spoiler for Episode78:

Vegeta trashtalks some more. Cell starts seducing Vegeta.
Episode ends right after 18 sees Krillin drop the remote detonator. Next week looks like 18 is finally absorbed. The week after that... Final Flash.

[DJ Trouble]

I just watched the last 5 episodes yesterday, 73-77. Marathoning through short chunks of episodes is so much fun.