[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 1 Legend of the golden witch

[Chewy]

Just because it's such an awesome song, here's the karaoke subbed version

Spoiler for video:

EDIT: Reorganized subs a little

[nagare]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

is it possible to download at niconico? hehe

Yes, there's a couple of ways to do it. Here's two...
My preferred method is using a javascript called "smile DLer"
http://nicopon.jp/

Simply plop it into your browser's bookmark folder and then you can put a shortcut to it on your browser toolbar (should work with IE6+ and Firefox).

To use go to the Nico Video you want to Download (make sure it is the last video you saw, refresh otherwise). The title of the video becomes a textbox which you can copy/cut, next to the title an FLV button will appear, click on that.

Note 1: If you click before the video loads in the browser you can d/l right away but it won't load in the browser. (You can always refresh tho)

Note 2: If you wait until the video loads, make sure it completely finish loading, otherwise you have to wait and sometimes the d/l will time-out if it takes too long.

That may be a bit complicated but that's my preferred method since I can d/l the video in the same browser I'm using.

There's an easier way: Use Craving Explorer
http://www.butsu-yoku.com/

This can d/l videos off YouTube, and NicoNico automatically convert them as one of the following formats: FLV, MPEG, AVI, MP4, WAV, or MP3.

It's still in alpha but it's a good program. It does have some minor issues which annoy me, but it's simple as point and click. You will have to be able to read 動画を保存 and 音声を保存 as that is what you'll need to click to save the videos (save video / save audio respectively).

As for the UMG, I love them. The graphics have powered up a bit
All the character look so much better! Especially, I think, Battler looks awesome!
lol. I thought that girl who appeared before Eva was Battler (name unreadable) sister!
Rosa looks younger than Jessica in that UMG.

Spoiler:

gah... it's been so long since I read chapter 01... when did Kanon pull out the axe/nata?
IIRC didn't he just curse Beatrice for killing Shanon, and then later when Kuma-san was down, got all riled up and open the door to be impaled?

I just can't remember a scene with him or anyone else besides Natsuhi with a weapon...

[Li Jianliang]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

幻想の蝶 (Gensou no Chou)

幻耀の蝶 (Genyou no Chou).

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Peroyasha

Spoiler:

gah... it's been so long since I read chapter 01... when did Kanon pull out the axe/nata?
IIRC didn't he just curse Beatrice for killing Shanon, and then later when Kuma-san was down, got all riled up and open the door to be impaled?

I just can't remember a scene with him or anyone else besides Natsuhi with a weapon...

Spoiler:

It's when Kanon faced off against Beatrice in the boiler room before his death, I think.

I use the greasemonkey script to dl videos from niconico. www.nicovideon.jp has details (you used to be able to dl a video simply by adding a "n" after nicovideo in the url, but I think the person got tired of running it)

As for the nakanai video, it's the same good stuff. My copy should be on its way soon, and I'm also interested in hearing the other 2 songs in the CD.

ico-san has gotten much better with her drawings over the years. I find her Sean Conn... I mean Kinzou drawing to be quite attractive. And Rosa still pisses me off in the game, but if she looked as moe in the game as she did in this MAD, maybe I wouldn't have been that mad .

[Sterling01]

I think Sean Connery would be able to play a good Kinzou

Spoiler for Kanon:

Yeah he took out the axe down in the boiler room when he was chasing Beatrice

[Hypertaost]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Just because it's such an awesome song, here's the karaoke subbed version

wow, the pictures look so pretty... If they are ever going to release this game they should get that artist to redo the graphics.

[Li Jianliang]

A better way to convey the meaning of the song title would be saying that the butterflies glow in such a way that you'd think it's an illusion, but I couldn't think of a concise way of putting it in English.

The Glimmering Butterflies
Vocals: Shinra Etsuko
Lyrics: Nakagawa Yusuke

As if hurrying the sound of rain
The curtains rise again
The time of suspicion comes around
With the fate of being tested

The butterflies clad in light now beckon you
The world will close the exit before long
Ah, throwing love astray

Oh, the lit determination-
Count the screams that didn’t reach you
That the storm painted over
And follow the spiral of sadness

The butterflies flickering in the light went crazed again
The door of the world opens and invites you
Ah, love is astray
Simply carve only the words left behind by distress
And let the exchanged vows and endless prayers
Ah, sleep in your chest

The butterflies clad in light summon illusions
The world breaks and hides into the night
Ah, love is invisible
Hey, return those voices echoing in the sea
Let them ride on the fleeting miracle and millions of dreams
Ah, and dance

Genyou no Chou
Vocals: Shinra Etsuko

Amaoto sekasu you ni
Futatabi maku ga agaru
Utagai no koro wa meguri
Tamesareru sadame to

Hikari matou chou-tachi ga ima temaneku
Sekai wa yagate deguchi o tozashi
Aa ai o mayowasete

Arashi ga nuritsubushita
Todokanu himei kazoe
Kanashimi no rasen tadori
Tomosareta ketsu i yo

Hikari yureru chou-tachi wa mata kurutta
Sekai no tobira akete izanau
Aa ai mo mayowase
Urei nokosareta kotoba dake tada kizande
Kawashita chikai hatenaki inori
Aa mune ni nemurasete

Hikari matou chou-tachi ga yobu gensou
Sekai wa koware yoru e to kakushi
Aa ai ga mienai
Umi ni hibiku ano koe-tachi o nee kaeshite
Hakanaki kiseki ikuoku no yume
Aa nosete maiodore

幻耀の蝶
歌:新良エツ子
作詞:ナカガワユウスケ
作曲:表本裕二
編曲:表本裕二

雨音　急かす様に
再び幕が上がる
疑いの頃はめぐり
試される運命と

光まとう蝶達が　今　手招く
世界はやがて　出口を閉ざし
嗚呼　愛を迷わせて

嵐が塗りつぶした
届かぬ悲鳴かぞえ
哀しみの螺旋たどり
灯された決意よ

光ゆれる蝶達は　また狂った
世界の扉　開けて誘う
嗚呼　愛も迷わせ
憂い残された言葉だけ　ただ刻んで
交した誓い　果て無き祈り
嗚呼　胸に眠らせて

光まとう蝶達が　呼ぶ幻想
世界は壊れ　夜へと隠し
嗚呼　愛が見えない
海に響くあの声たちを　ねえ返して
儚き奇跡　幾億の夢
嗚呼　乗せて舞い踊れ

[kgptzac]

I just played Umineko's chinese translation version and fell in love with it. A lot of reasoning has been posted so I think we can start push teh discussion to a higher dimension: what is the central theme of Umineko? For Higurashi, the theme is for friends to trust and bond with each other, combined with overwhelming will to trigger miracle and win the game; what will be the equavalent in Umineko?

Watching some videos now... I'm gonna post my thoughts in a bit. Before that, some details I missed during the gaming:

Spoiler for questions:

How did Kanon die? I think there are descriptions of his arms and knees being cut off =.=| and finally an ice pick was put thru his lung... but when others discover Kanon they didn't say how horrible the scene was... this is rather important because if "scenes showed to player = things actually happened", then they way Kanon was killed can only mean Beatrice or some other supernatural forced killed him... so if anyone remember the deail please enlighten me :P

another thing. how to activate OP2 in game? do i need to go thru the prolouge one more time and the OP will be #2?

[Bokunenjin]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

Spoiler for questions:

How did Kanon die? I think there are descriptions of his arms and knees being cut off =.=| and finally an ice pick was put thru his lung... but when others discover Kanon they didn't say how horrible the scene was... this is rather important because if "scenes showed to player = things actually happened", then they way Kanon was killed can only mean Beatrice or some other supernatural forced killed him... so if anyone remember the deail please enlighten me :P

Spoiler for answers?:

It's been a while since I've played episode 1 but didn't he just make that roulette speech and got staked right after. After which he got carried up and later pronounced dead. I can't remember any mention of chopped up body parts.

[Hypertaost]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

I just played Umineko's chinese translation version and fell in love with it.

There's a chinese ver?!?!?!?!? can you tell me the name or site for it?

[kgptzac]

Originally Posted by Hypertaost

There's a chinese ver?!?!?!?!? can you tell me the name or site for it?

http://www.acgol.cn/bbs/thread.php?fid=121
translation group forum...

Originally Posted by Bokunenjin

Spoiler for answers?:

It's been a while since I've played episode 1 but didn't he just make that roulette speech and got staked right after. After which he got carried up and later pronounced dead. I can't remember any mention of chopped up body parts.

Spoiler:

>.<

that speech is precisely the evidence of he knows more than what game told us... and it's the only full battle we see in game of human vs "the witch/19th person"... there really should be more discussion on the topic imo

[Bokunenjin]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

Spoiler:

>.<

that speech is precisely the evidence of he knows more than what game told us... and it's the only full battle we see in game of human vs "the witch/19th person"... there really should be more discussion on the topic imo

Spoiler:

Kanon being convinced of holding some sort of power within the roulette or at the very least knowing its rules intimately, makes me very excited to know more.
「…………これは、お館様が決めたルールでも、…ましてやお前が決めたルールでもない。………このルールは 僕が作った。………僕は、もう家具じゃない。………お前のルーレットの、ゼロなんだ…！」
「…………………僕はもうお前の言葉に惑わされたりはしない。悪魔のルーレットはこれでおしまいだ。…じ、 ……地獄にてさらに千年、次の召喚者を待つがいい、ベアトリーチェえええぇええぇッ！！！」

[kgptzac]

Spoiler:

role-playing the piece on the chessboard; as obeying the Rule set by Kinzo. Shanon dead -> Kanon enraged -> he no longer wishes to play the game set up (at least partly) by Kinzo and tried to revolve against it but failed in the end.

but if to say, all murders are done by human(s), then certainly how Kanon was killed is the biggest obstacle for this explaination. either way this is the strangest murder if not counting Natsuhi ._.

PS: the more i think the more i believe Natsuhi is Beatrice's first victim because according to the epitaph, Natsuhi's death happens after resurrection of the witch. according to the tips... Beatrice can reflect bullets... lol

edit:

Spoiler for another thing about Eva and her receipt:

it start to feel suspecious after thinking about this a while. Eva argued fericiously about this receipt which supposedly maked Kinzo's study room a closed space. But what can be a right motive for her to slip the receipt in-between the automaticlly door and the door frame in the first place? Does she want to prove that nobody goes out from that room, or more precisely, the door doesn't open the next time they go check on the old man? If I remember it correctly, the first time Natsuhi got her morale boost by talking to Kinzo, they haven't discovered the six bodies thus Eva has no reason to believe Kinzo wasn't in the room. The only way I can think of is, either she made up the receipt story, or she knew, in advance, that Kinzo would disappear in between Natsuhi's visit and their second emergency visit. If it is the latter, I'm afraid Eva knows even about the first murders...

edit 2:

Spoiler for kanon:

nevermind. I just took at another look at the game and it turn out my grim insight was wrong, Kanon was indeed rewarded with an ice pick and nothing else... It can be done by a human, but that can't explain the glimmering butterflies, unless... i see... everythign fells into the conspircary theory i'm working on right now, very good.

[theacefrehley]

One crucial point nobody ever touched is this line of Rudolf, the night before the massacre

「…………………俺は多分。
………今夜、殺されるだろうな。」


He says he will be killed

How come?

Spoiler:

since Rudolf "dies" in both games and has very little screen time, I think he has more than he shows. Our 34-tan had very little screen time in Higurashi too.PS: I didn't finish ep2. yet, but I'm on the side of the ones who don't believe the Witch yet, just like Oyashiro-sama.

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

One crucial point nobody ever touched is this line of Rudolf, the night before the massacre

「…………………俺は多分。
………今夜、殺されるだろうな。」


He says he will be killed

How come?

Spoiler:

since Rudolf "dies" in both games and has very little screen time, I think he has more than he shows. Our 34-tan had very little screen time in Higurashi too.PS: I didn't finish ep2. yet, but I'm on the side of the ones who don't believe the Witch yet, just like Oyashiro-sama.

For some reason I find Beatrice to be a badass version of Hanyuu

Spoiler for Rudolf:

Since I believe in Beatrice I still think it's her doing and Rudolf says he might be killed not will be killed

@kgptzac: To activate the 2nd op you would of had to unlock the music box and then just click on version b

[kgptzac]

ok i think i gathered enough information to make up my rather arrogant theory.

Spoiler:

The golden witch, Beatrice, exists.
yet, 19th person also exists; Beatrice is not the primary murderer.

At first i fell into the reasoning trap of "if Beatrice exist then she must be the killer." But, almost all killing methods are clearly duplicatable by human hands, and various aspects of the game confirmed the existence of glimmering butterflies and ultimately the manifastation of the witch in a woman's form, thus the conclusion of both factors exist.

To fake four of the original 6 bodies, there must be at least three people, a man and two women, were on the island without our knowledge Here's my guess. Krauss, who knew witch's gold has to be somewhere on the island, hired some private agents secretly hoping to find the gold. But after receiving the letter from the alleged Beatrice, Krauss panicked and told his siblings about the existence of gold and his private team; he wanted to work with his siblings toward the same goal. (Kyrie actually told Battler that the family members wanted more property but at the same time, none wanted anybody outside of the family get any money.)

Who delivered the first Beatrice letter to Maria? It was someone (most likely a woman in cosplay) who was unknown to anyone, playing the role of the arbitor, the observer of the game. She has deep enough connection to Kinzo to know his little ritule to conjur up the witch, Beatrice. This person used Kinzo's ring and wrote a letter, cosplaying the witch and gave it to Maria for her to read it after dinner.

For Krauss, the letter had another level of meaning; maybe this is the final chance of finding the gold left by the witch, according to his father's riddle. It is highly likely that Krauss knew even more about Kinzo's financial and personal life except the location of hidden gold. (Kinzo allowed Krauss to keep that piece of gold means Kinzo permitted his son to do some of the things, probably like using his money for his own enterprise.) At night, Krauss moved Kinzo's closest servants were away from the mansion to safeguard his discussion about finidng the gold with his siblings.

It is very likely that Krauss Then, for some reason, a battle broke out between those people, six died, including Shanon for maybe she witnessed the event and were killed as a way silencing her, or, simply joined the fight as a more direct way to die.

The survivers were, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Roza. Krauss, Gouda, Shanon, and three of Krauss's agents died. Afterward, the 19th person sent them a message. In the message she threatens them either with their crime to be report to the police, or safety of their children back in the hotel, so Rudolf and others decided to listen to this mysterious person; since she promised them that do what she said, they will obtain Beatrice's gold.

One of the things the 19th person requested was to to cover up that Krauss's agents ever existed; maybe to her, those who were not worthy to be on the island needed to be purged. Therefore, maybe because of body size or they were visiblely injured during the fight, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Roza decide to fake their death, smashing up faces of the agents. Krauss and Shanon's faces were only half-destroyed in order to reduce suspision; I think Gouda's had least chance of survival since he was loyal to Krauss, not to Rudolf. Therefore his broken face might be another diverting method.

With Kyrie and Eva's help, it's easy to create an image of a closed space mass murder took place in a storage room. Eva and Hideyoshi returned to the hotel to make sure everybody else was in their supposed place.

Then, the 19th person notified Kinzo of six deaths on the island. The question becomes, is Kinzo some sort of enemy boss, or is he just a blinded believer of her witch who were being manipulated as everyone else? It really depends on, who wrote the "poem" under the giant Beatrice portrait because people die according to the pattern written in that poem. Whichever way it is, Kinzo knew the roulette started to turn. Whichever way he felt about the death of his oldest son, he wasn't afraid. When he said encouraging words to Natsuhi, maybe it was a way pass on his acceptance and congratulations to her for her not being dead at that moment.

During the second day, Eva had strong suspicion about Natsuhi, the only "surviving" female member of the generation, to be the 19th person. Eva also wanted to know what kind of role did Kinzo play in the whole, so she sneaked upstairs and marked the door with her receipt. When it turned out the old man evaporated from hsi study after finding the bodies, her suspicion grew stronger.

I think there should be secret passage that links Kinzo's room to the place he hides the witch's gold. The secret passage actually should be the only way of getting in whatever place that stored the gold.

About Rudolf predicted his possible death... Turn the chess board around and look at the whole picture: if Rudolf planned fake his own death, isn't the last thing he would do was to announce his death in advance? Therefore, it is safe to assume that Rudolf only sensed some kind of danger after talking with Krauss; most likely would be Krauss's seriousness toward the deaths foretold by the riddle.

The rest would be easy. Either the 19th person hiding in Eva and Hideyoshi's room waiting for them or knocking the door to get in. If Hideyoshi was taking a bath it was way too easy to shoot ice picks at their heads. If I remember things correctly, the chain is not a reliable proof of a enclosed room because there are several ways to fake it. It is also possible for Kinzo to come and kill the couple with an ice pick shooter... although I don't his health permits it. It also could have been any other Ushiromiya...

Whoever died in the furnace, if not Kinzo himself, was very likly to have met with him to take his key to the study room. My best guess still is Roza. For whateve reason, the 19th person killed her with ice pick shooter. It couldn't be Rudolf because Battler would know his dad had 6 toes. Since Jessica had no reaction to the toes, then it's safe to assume the corpse was not be Krauss (recycled, lol). Maybe Maria knew her mother had 6 toes, but it doesn't surprise anyone that she did not speak up. Of coures the body can even be some unknown Ushiromiya relative.

About Kanon's death there are several interesting clues. First, it is almost 100% true that some human first close the door from inside that drew Kanon into the furnace room, and then was seen escaping from the other door into inner court yard by Battler. Beatrice the witch also appeared here, but what really killed Kanon was whoever hiding in the shadow shooting ice pick at him... so Beatrice showed herself in butterfly form only to react to Kanon's speech about roulette. The killer is most likely to be the 19th person, again, executing the living according to the epitaph.

However, even Beatrice can't get pass the scorpion seal engraved on Kinzo's study room's doorbell, nor the 19th person could break in the metal door and face Natsuhi's shotgun. The last letter which mysteriously appeared on the desk inside the room is almost certainly the work of Maria. The effect of the letter should be to scare the people inside so they may have second thought on continuing to hide. But don't forget there are still three people that are not in the safe area to complete killing on the riddle, Rudolf, Kyrie and Kinzo.

About Maria... she's an accomplice no doubt, however because she's too young, it's very easy to deceive her. Her split personality makes her appear to be creepy worked in favor of the 19th person.

Anyway, the 19th person killed Nanjo, Genji, and Kumasawa in the living room; she spared Maria because the ritual is complete and Beatrice could take physical form again to reappear in this world... as a woman, not just butterflies -,- The 19th person left a message to Natsuhi so she can try shoot at the real witch and get bullet reflect in the face.

The nineth night, the witch resurrects, and no one survives.

In the end of the game it gave me an impression that the last four survivors were cut into meat juice by the witch and were revived in the golden land. Whatever happened there doesn't relate to this world anymore. And the witch will no longer influnce this world because someone already reach the golden land.

Who are the biggest winner? the 19th person got what she wanted; resurrection of the witch. Provided there was an identity shift and the old man did not die, Rudolf, Kyrie and Kinzo were left alive. Here's the real question, what Kinzo really wanted? The smile of Beatrice; it is vauge. Maybe he just wanted to see the witch, but I don't think the witch took him into her golden land and smile at him... so... he lived for nothing. By default, Rudolf couple should have gotten the gold, although there's no description about that whatsoever.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

Spoiler:

ok i think i gathered enough information to make up my rather arrogant theory.
For some reason I find Beatrice to be a badass version of Hanyuu
The rest would be easy. Either the 19th person hiding in Eva and Hideyoshi's room waiting for them or knocking the door to get in. If Hideyoshi was taking a bath it was way too easy to shoot ice picks at their heads. If I remember things correctly, the chain is not a reliable proof of a enclosed room because there are several ways to fake it. It is also possible for Kinzo to come and kill the couple with an ice pick shooter... although I don't his health permits it. It also could have been any other Ushiromiya...

Your theory makes sense
But
That part definitely doesn't
They, mainly Battler, insist that the chain IS a reliable way to make an enclosed space

And besides,
If I'm not mistaken, Genji supervised the construction of the mansion and until the end he said there's no secret passage.

I think that by the situation they were in the last 2 chapters, if he really knew a secret passage, he would blurt it out already. It was obvious that someone was out there killing everybody. Unless he believed he would be spared


But your theory leaves room for lots of combinations in future chapters since there are no murderers-wannabe inside the family at first arriving in the island

Originally Posted by Sterling01

Spoiler for Rudolf:

Since I believe in Beatrice I still think it's her doing and Rudolf says he might be killed not will be killed

Whatever,
It doesn't make any difference
It just implies that Rudolf is up to/on something

[kgptzac]

"For some reason I find Beatrice to be a badass version of Hanyuu"

o.o I don't think it was me who said that lol. Anyway, Battler did try to deny it was the witch's doing at the end of 1st tea party and said "you can find a way to do this trick if you go out and buy some detective novels", which I still clearly remember.

I don't know what other background information about the servants and what they knew and what they are not telling... Nanjo did suspect Genji consider himself outside of the entire affair at one point, and seeing Genji's reaction to most of the stuff, I think he and rest of the servants were withholding information...

Spoiler:

Maybe it'll turn out that Rudolf and Kirie to be some sort of final boss haha

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by kgptzac

"For some reason I find Beatrice to be a badass version of Hanyuu"

o.o I don't think it was me who said that lol. Anyway, Battler did try to deny it was the witch's doing at the end of 1st tea party and said "you can find a way to do this trick if you go out and buy some detective novels", which I still clearly remember.

I don't know what other background information about the servants and what they knew and what they are not telling... Nanjo did suspect Genji consider himself outside of the entire affair at one point, and seeing Genji's reaction to most of the stuff, I think he and rest of the servants were withholding information...

Spoiler:

Maybe it'll turn out that Rudolf and Kirie to be some sort of final boss haha

My bad
I messed the quotes

I remember that part of the tea party
But Battler was mocked for giving that excuse

I'm not an expert on detective novel stuff, but on the few novels I read I never came across a case with a closed-space made with a door chain, so I cannot speculate how to defeat that "secret room"

I even considered the possibility of murder+suicide in that room
that would solve the case, the only thing left is the reason for the murder+suicide

[kgptzac]

Eva's body was found on the bed, and she was wearing shoes. I think it was hinting that she was killed not on bed but was standing up or something. Either she fell on the bed or the killer put her body on the bed... There was no motive, we saw Eva and Hideyoshi were love-love just before perspective left them...

I want that ice pick shooting device ;_; it must be a Doraemon item!