2010-09-27, 19:18 | Link #2841 |
Corpse in Pieces
|
You're not supposed to take the bible literally, for the most part.
One of the reasons I want to read all of it is because of my mother, who is my ultimate role model. She has no house or car, limited money and lives in a room she is renting in a house of this rich Chinese family. Despite all of this she is as happy as ever, so I want to see her motivation. She's 57.
__________________
|
2010-09-28, 00:06 | Link #2842 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
|
Quote:
In the absence of God, what follows? How is one supposed to conduct oneself in a godless world? What is one supposed to believe in such a situation? So, ideally, posters shouldn't post to cast doubts or put other people's beliefs in poor light. If you don't believe, then you simply don't — there's no need to pour scorn on others who do. Rather, what I want to read about are your beliefs, religious or not, and why you choose to have them. Quote:
With regard to your context, this was recorded: The Master said: Riches and position are what men desire. If their attainment is to be by departing from the Way, do not have them. Poverty and wellness are what men hate. If their abandonment is to be departing from the Way, do not abandon them. If the gentleman abandons benevolence, how is he to live up to his reputation! The gentleman does not deviate from benevolence, not even during meals, during hectic times, nor in destitution.Implicit in the verse is the assumption that to follow the Way is to be virtuous. But the "Way" can mean different things to different people in different contexts. So, my advice when you seek to learn as much as you can from the Bible: The Master said: Learning without thinking is useless. Thinking without learning is dangerous. |
||
2010-09-28, 00:57 | Link #2843 | |||
Lurking Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
|
Quote:
Also, I am not trying to "put other people's beliefs in poor light". What I really want to do is to "make people look more in a more 'objective' manner at what they believe". That's all. Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
2010-09-28, 01:22 | Link #2844 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
|
Discussions of The Bible, or any religious text, are strictly forbidden. A quote or two to emphasize why such spiritual text has influenced your beliefs is more than acceptable (in fact it is encouraged if relevant), but any discussion of holy text is strictly outside the scope of the topic "What's Your Religion?".
Quote:
|
|
2010-09-28, 03:15 | Link #2845 |
Badass
Join Date: Sep 2010
|
Im agnostic... i used to be christian but then i got sick of people - particularly the younger people i knew who would tell people they were good catholics and preach about morals but would still sleep around, get drunk and basically do the things that they preach against... i appreciate religion and like that some people find happiness and purpose in life with it but i dont like it being shoved in my face as if its the only thing that one should be listening too or following - i dont like influence in politics or law either...
|
2010-09-28, 03:35 | Link #2846 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
|
I have no idea what a Christian, agnostic, or Atheism or any other religion is.
I dont know what they believe in and neither do i want to know. I dont have a religion. Only thing i believe is that we are not alone in the universe. I dont know if this has a special name? |
2010-09-28, 04:26 | Link #2847 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
If there are other (hopefully better*) reasons which I haven't considered, feel free to share them. * Don't worry, while I don't personally think the reasons I mentioned are good, I'm not here to debate their merits. Especially since we're not supposed to debate in this thread. I just want to know people's reasons in this particular matter. Last edited by james0246; 2010-09-28 at 08:44. Reason: deleted off-topic portion... |
|
2010-09-28, 07:06 | Link #2848 | ||
Badass
Join Date: Sep 2010
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2010-09-28, 07:56 | Link #2849 | |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
|
Quote:
As an old professor of mine used to say, formal study and fundamentalism is like being in Plato's Cave.
__________________
|
|
2010-09-28, 09:43 | Link #2850 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
|
Quote:
Quote:
I'm a working man with pragmatic concerns. I hardly have time to read philosophy for its own sake. So, I believe I'm a long way off from developing fundamentalist delusions. |
||
2010-09-28, 09:50 | Link #2851 | |
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
Join Date: Jul 2004
Age: 39
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2010-09-28, 14:27 | Link #2852 | |
.....
Join Date: Jul 2009
|
Quote:
By wiki's standard, I'm probably Agnostic Theist. But, man, I dilute myself in this cycle of confusion. Is such a position even rational? I'm also weak agnostic. |
|
2010-09-28, 16:08 | Link #2853 | |
~Official Slacker~
Author
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2010-09-28, 17:13 | Link #2854 | |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
|
Quote:
Long ago, in my callous youth, I told a good friend of mine, a devout Christian, that I don't believe in God because miracles (the pillar-of-salt, parting- the-Red-Seas kind) can't possibly exist. To which he replied: Would I be able to recognise a miracle when I see it, if I don't believe in miracles in the first place? It seemed a flippant answer at the time. But consider a single, powerful scene from The Watchmen, when Dr Manhattan, the ultimate symbol of Big Science, realised the sheer impossibility of coincidences that led to a single, completely unique, individual he loved: Laurie, the Silk Spectre. Miracle or random chance? What you fundamentally believe affects how you interpret reality. |
|
2010-09-28, 17:26 | Link #2855 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Sounds like sample selection bias to me. Or maybe the Texas sharpshooter fallacy. Snowflakes are unique too. Who gives a damn?
Though I don't deny the problem of using miracles as a yardstick for the existence of the divine. I mean, if you believe them plausible, they're not very miraculous, are they? And if not, you'll always reach for the "alternate explanation". Even if it's a bit of a stretch. |
2010-09-28, 18:42 | Link #2856 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
|
Quote:
A more accurate distinction is: *Atheists do not believe god(s) exist, for whatever reason. *Agnostics believe the existence or non-existence of god(s) is unknown. As for miracles, there have been none that can be directly attributed to God. "Miracles" themselves are often paired with disasters or misfortune of some kind, so they are hardly the sort of good thing that people think they are. Better not to be a victim in the first place than to have to "be saved."
__________________
|
|
2010-09-28, 19:31 | Link #2857 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
I view miracles in two ways:
1. Generally, any work done by God. 2. Any work done by God that humans may not be used to. So both the continuation of life and water turning into wine are miracles, going by view #1. But going by view #2, only water turning into wine is specifically called a miracle because humans are not used to that, while we see life continues everyday. |
2010-09-28, 20:31 | Link #2858 | |
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
|
Quote:
Selection bias is precisely the point I've been trying to drive across, not just in this thread, but also in a number of other threads in this forum. In here, for example, we find people who are already so dead set against any one religion that they can easily proffer up any number of quotes and examples to support their case. How often do we find people doing the opposite, confronting their own biases as and where they exist, to check that they aren't merely looking for facts to confirm their own prejudices? That's why I request people to reserve judgment on the beliefs that others wish to post here. We are not required to believe what they do. You might even find them silly. But we shouldn't let that prevent others from articulating their beliefs to the best of their abilities. And, in so doing, I hope to learn whatever I have not thought about before. To translate that into the context of this thread, I am agnostic. Having decided that it is impossible to know whether God exists, I choose forever more to defer judgment on that question. At the same time, I am a secular humanist: I choose to have faith in humanity's capacity for good. It is very hard to keep faith, not least because of the ample amount of human failings, from the petty to the egregious, that I see every day. But I remind myself that I have a duty and obligation to my fellow men. Where I believe they err, I must ensure that I don't. And one of the first errors I must avoid is to mock others without first mocking myself. Only by mastering my own faults can I hope to show an example for others to follow. My faults are legion. |
|
2010-09-29, 16:11 | Link #2859 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
|
Quote:
For years, western nations were so dominated by Christianity that deviance from the religion was unthinkable. In my case, my father grew up in a religious household in Ireland where the influence of Catholicism was very strong until relatively recently. To him, the idea of going against Catholic beliefs is unthinkable. There's no room for discussion, no acceptance of alternative beliefs. Now, I can't fault him because that is what has worked for him and how he was taught, but if I ever try to express my viewpoints for any reason I am promptly told how my beliefs (in his words) are "dribble". He can so casually dismiss anything I say, and I suspect this is a fairly common theme amongst families that have been religious for such a long period of time. They can't wrap their heads around people denying religion because, to them, it just wasn't (isn't) done. So people like me, who grew up in that type of environment, but found the logic behind religion not to our liking, are so used to being instantly dismissed that we have these 'talking points,' as you said, that we use to poke holes in their beliefs. When your views are rejected so quickly, it is nice to have some ammunition of your own to throw back. It wasn't until I was 16-17 and I met actual theologians who were willing to discuss beliefs openly, and made an effort to explain the thinking behind why they believed that way, that I realized theism can be a justifiable stance, and that it is better to wait and see what people's arguments are before jumping down their throat about fallacies and the like. I would guess that many others never have this experience, and thus only view religion through people like my father who can't be bothered to consider other stances. Last edited by ChainLegacy; 2010-09-29 at 16:32. |
|
2010-09-29, 19:14 | Link #2860 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
|
A recent poll in the US uncovered a "disturbing lack of knowledge" in people concerning their own religion (never mind other religions). Agnostics and atheists (self-identifying as such) scored substantially higher in knowledge... as did Mormons (but then that religion actually has *classes* about their religion).
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/us/28religion.html http://www.religionnewsblog.com/19478/religion-poll-2 http://ncse.com/news/2010/09/darwin-...eligion-006205
__________________
Last edited by Vexx; 2010-09-29 at 21:03. |
Tags |
not a debate, philosophy, religion |
|
|