One Piece - Chapter 552 (manga)

[AddiKtioNn-BlaCk]

Originally Posted by marvelB

However, I don't think Ace ever got blasted off to an amazon island by a Shichibukai, so Luffy>big bro in my book.

I know right.
Landing on a island full of women. Getting fed by the Pirate Empress/Most Beautiful Lady in the world. I would've hit that a few times before we boarded the Marine ship. Shit even on the marine ship, that was a big enough table to get it on.

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by andy

So goes to show you having a logia is a big plus which is also why they wanted him to be a warlord unless you saying they have to say that , In which i hope that some people would just have to use there head to see him being a logia was part of it since it was mention .

Hold up, if your telling me to use my head while saying something is there when its not, who should really be using there head?

I know insane, lets drop this.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by AddiKtioNn-BlaCk

I know right.
Landing on a island full of women. Getting fed by the Pirate Empress/Most Beautiful Lady in the world. I would've hit that a few times before we boarded the Marine ship. Shit even on the marine ship, that was a big enough table to get it on.

Yeah, if you think about it, Luffy's probably closer to Whitebeard's level than Ace is when it comes to being the most pimpin' pirate in the series. He's already got 2 hot chicks in his crew and managed to woo the pirate empress. Maybe at some point in the future he'll have his own group of hot nurses to look after him!

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Master Mold

Well when Luffy gets/find some one on equal footing as Newgate (Gold D Rogers rival) to want to make him into the next Pirate king you get back to me, but until then I see Aces career/track record as greater then Luffy's.

Why couldn't Whitebeard have decided to make Ace the Pirate King solely because Ace is his rival's son? It certainly doesn't appear to be on strength alone that Whitebeard is basing his desires on (considering that Ace is below Whitebeard in strength), and it certainly seems possible that Ace has decided to make Whitebeard the Pirate King solely because he was his biological father's rival (this is probably also why he sought to fight Whitebeard). So, it stands to reason that Whitebeard wants Ace to be Pirate King for more emotional reasons than anything else.

Again, there is no real reason to compare Ace to Luffy. They are more like two-sides of one coin (both with extreme criminal fathers; both backed (partially or otherwise) by a Yonkou; both fought/fight against Shichibukia/WG; etc) than individuals that need to be compared against each other.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by Master Mold

Ace would wreck weak Croc and Moria

I'm not so sure about this. Crocodile is also a logia user, which makes him invulnerable against all physical attacks. Not only that, but what would fire be able to do to sand, and vice versa? Moria's doppleman cannot be destroyed by any means and it can pretty much be considered a pseudo logia entity. His swapping position technique would also be really useful in evading Ace's flame attacks. In other words, they have the tools they need to even the playing field against Ace.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Wow, the narration text for the end of the chapter is awesome (as translated by Svg at AP forums):


"Whoever wins, whoever loses, this era will come to an end!"

Yep, I can definitely smell "epic" in the air.

I really do hope that means Oda is gonna put the tissue's away and actually bring his lunch box to work and kick-off the war from here on out.

[andy]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I'm not so sure about this. Crocodile is also a logia user, which makes him invulnerable against all physical attacks. Not only that, but what would fire be able to do to sand, and vice versa? Moria's doppleman cannot be destroyed by any means and it can pretty much be considered a pseudo logia entity. His swapping position technique would also be really useful in evading Ace's flame attacks. In other words, they have the tools they need to even the playing field against Ace.

Well i am not sure but i think if sand gets heat up to certain point it turns to glass i could be wrong thought .

With moria if ace does his last attack like he did when he fight BB i don't think he could run any , that look like it could destroy a whole island .Plus the fact moria can't hit ace, so all ace` has to do is a lot off attacks that wide to pin him down.

Not like it really matter cause you could write a way for any one of them to win in a fight vs each other .

[Tommy]

I wanna see some Pacifistas get owned, it would be a great display of strength for whomever took them out and to show the difference in levels between them and the strawhats.

[marvelB]

Originally Posted by Tommy

I wanna see some Pacifistas get owned, it would be a great display of strength for whomever took them out and to show the difference in levels between them and the strawhats.

This reminds me: I'm still crossing my fingers for that old idea I had about Moria and Hogback collaborating with Vegapunk to create zombie Pacifistas. A nigh-unstoppable army of zombie cyborgs would be pretty badass, IMO (and I HIGHLY doubt that everyone's going to be carrying a pinch of salt on them, either ). Just imagine, they could use the corpses of several infamous criminals to fight in this war. Perhaps that would even include Gold Roger's zombie.......

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by andy

Well i am not sure but i think if sand gets heat up to certain point it turns to glass i could be wrong thought .

I accounted for this as well, but I don't think the temperature of Ace's flames is high enough to convert sand into glass. A really high level of intense heat is required to do that.

Originally Posted by andy

With moria if ace does his last attack like he did when he fight BB i don't think he could run any , that look like it could destroy a whole island .Plus the fact moria can't hit ace, so all ace` has to do is a lot off attacks that wide to pin him down.

Moria could have Doppleman go someplace far away, and just as Ace does his ultimate attack (Solar Emperor), he could switch places with Doppleman to avoid being burned to smithereens. And while it's true that Moria can't physically harm Ace, Ace is always casting a shadow on the floor, and you know what that means. With just the right trickery, Moria could have Doppleman invade Ace's shadow and control it, which would consequently allow Moria to control Ace's body since Shadow Revolution reverses the laws of nature by having the body comply with the movements of the shadow. Subsequently, Ace would be rendered helpless as Moria goes for the opportunity to amputate his shadow and claim victory.

In the end, it's hard to say who would emerge the victor in these battles.

[paradox13]

And that's because of the storyline, not because of their strengths. What you're saying doesn't provide any evidence of one being stronger then the other. Each time they fought (in the manga [Baroque Works Arc] and the fillers) they were evenly matched. It was also hinted in the manga on a few occasions that Zoro was strong enough to be Captain, which is why everybody (the readers) see Zoro as Vice-Captain.

They only fought once...fillers lol? when did anyone take fillers seriously? You DO know that fillers are not canon right?

HinteD? There have been several occasions in the manga when characters have said that despite being very strong, Zoro was the kind of man who would only follow a stronger man. In fact, I believe Zoro himself states that, when Luffy invites him to join his crew.

The reason why several people think that Zoro is on par with Luffy is because he looks more badass, and the fact that he fights with swords which some kids think is 'cool'. Other then that, the manga has made it obvious to most readers that Luffy is stronger.

In fact, I think that Sanji is way closer in strength to Zoro then Zoro to Luffy, if a comparison between members is to be made.

Ace would wreck weak Croc and Moria

Sand can be melted with extreme heat.

And we do know that Logias can only control elements in their 'natural' state (for example, Aokiji can't control water despite it being the same element as ice).

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by paradox13

Other then that, the manga has made it obvious to most readers that Luffy is stronger...

No, the manga has always shown Luffy and Zoro as equals [The only fight they had was even, Baroque works]. Characters in the manga would also ask the question why isn't Zoro a captain after seeing his display of power. Besides, the Yellow Databook even states Luffy and Zoro have equal fighting power.

[paradox13]

Characters in the manga would also ask the question why isn't Zoro a captain after seeing his display of power

That says more about Zoro's strength then Luffy's. They always state that BEFORE watching Luffy fight.

only the first mate and yet he has a bounty of a hundred and twenty million...He certainly doesn't seem the type to serve under another...I suppose that speaks volumes about the Captain....

Wonder where tahts from heh.

Besides, the Yellow Databook even states Luffy and Zoro have equal fighting power.

Yes, because the Databooks are such a good source of information. Just like fillers, no?

I have always found power charts to be inaccurate, stupid and non-canon. Just look at the Bleach captain power comparisons...


Zoro will only follow a stronger man. He is strong himself, and very independent minded. He is the type of character who is rational and decisive, and he wouldn't take shit from anyone or orders from anyone if he didn't know that they were stronger then him. He respects strength and that is why the only reason he accepts Luffy as captain is because he knows that hes weaker then him.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by paradox13

They only fought once...fillers lol? when did anyone take fillers seriously? You DO know that fillers are not canon right?

Luffy and Zoro briefly battle during the Whiskey Peak mini-arc.

Originally Posted by paradox13

In fact, I think that Sanji is way closer in strength to Zoro then Zoro to Luffy, if a comparison between members is to be made.

Oda thinks this as well. Oda delibrately used the concept of douriki to place the crew on specific levels. Luffy is stronger than Sanji or Zoro, and Sanji and Zoro are nearly equal. Obviously this is not a definitive level system (it was more of a joke than anything, and only was useful for setting up the future fights), but it is canonical evidence that Oda ranks Luffy as being more powerful than his two top crew mates.

[paradox13]

Luffy and Zoro briefly battle during the Whiskey Peak mini-arc.

I know, but I'm saying the only fought once in the manga, and it was a brief fight.

I just think fillers shouldn't be considered canon or proof.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by paradox13

That says more about Zoro's strength then Luffy's. They always state that BEFORE watching Luffy fight.



Wonder where tahts from heh.



Yes, because the Databooks are such a good source of information. Just like fillers, no?

I have always found power charts to be inaccurate, stupid and non-canon. Just look at the Bleach captain power comparisons...


Zoro will only follow a stronger man. He is strong himself, and very independent minded. He is the type of character who is rational and decisive, and he wouldn't take shit from anyone or orders from anyone if he didn't know that they were stronger then him. He respects strength and that is why the only reason he accepts Luffy as captain is because he knows that hes weaker then him.

Sorry, but the databook [which is canon] states Zoro and Luffy are equal in fighting power. Not too mention they already fought once in Whiskey Peak which is CANON and it was even.

[paradox13]

No point arguing with people like you.

I can try and reason with you, but I know it will be pointless, because you are so stubborn and narrow minded that, short of a personal note from Oda stating that Luffy is stronger then Zoro, you will not change your opinion on the matter, so lets just leave it at that.

Let others read our posts and decide for themselves.

[Crusader]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I'm not so sure about this. Crocodile is also a logia user, which makes him invulnerable against all physical attacks. Not only that, but what would fire be able to do to sand, and vice versa? Moria's doppleman cannot be destroyed by any means and it can pretty much be considered a pseudo logia entity. His swapping position technique would also be really useful in evading Ace's flame attacks. In other words, they have the tools they need to even the playing field against Ace.

Depending on Ace's fire temp, he could turn Croc's sand to glass. As for Moria im not sure.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by paradox13

No point arguing with people like you.

I can try and reason with you, but I know it will be pointless, because you are so stubborn and narrow minded that, short of a personal note from Oda stating that Luffy is stronger then Zoro, you will not change your opinion on the matter, so lets just leave it at that.

Let others read our posts and decide for themselves.

One Piece Yellow Databook

Spoiler:

Rononoa Zoro - A Combatant

He has an equally high fighting power as Luffy..

Not too mention Luffy vs Zoro in Whiskey Peak [Which is canon] was even all the way through. Zoro was able to take all the damage Luffy took in Thriller Bark [While at the same time Dismissing Sanji, showing who was the superior one]...All the physical evidence is there. I am not stubborn or narrow minded, I just tend to follow the story, the one's who argue against story facts and leave everything to interpretation are the truly stubborn ones.

[paradox13]

I know what it says, and I'm saying the databook isn't canon.

You can believe whatever you want.

Depending on Ace's fire temp, he could turn Croc's sand to glass. As for Moria im not sure.

Its impossible to turn sand into glass just by heating it up. Its a common misconception. Making glass requires a more complicated technique then just heating it up.