The Anime Saimoe Tournament 2006

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Now I'd certainly like to see the so-called "anti-Haruhi-ists" topple THE Haruhi with two characters that can be considered minor. Tsuruya and Ryoko were beaten because they were in the same group as popular characters with established fanbases (Eri from School Rumble over Tsuruya, and Tamaki from ToHeart2 over Ryoko).
Which leads me to ask: if there are "anti-Haruhi-ists", where are the "anti-School Rumble" and "anti-TH2" people? The backlash may be huge for Haruhi, but there wouldn't be a backlash if there wasn't an equal amount of support, if not greater, out there. So I wouldn't be too pessimistic for the SuzuHaru girls just yet.

Yeah! That's what I was trying to say!

Unfortunately today I find myself in the bind of voting for Haruhi (a character that isn't even my favorite in her own series) instead of Warashi (a character that I love) otherwise I become branded an "anti-Haruhi-ist".
Group 49
Osaragi Hazumu - Kashimashi ~Girl Meets Girl~
Group 50
No vote
Group 51 - Aug 24th
Suzumiya Haruhi - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu

*sigh* Zashiki Warashi, I'll miss you.

[Furudanuki]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Now I'd certainly like to see the so-called "anti-Haruhi-ists" topple THE Haruhi with two characters that can be considered minor. Tsuruya and Ryoko were beaten because they were in the same group as popular characters with established fanbases (Eri from School Rumble over Tsuruya, and Tamaki from ToHeart2 over Ryoko).

Which leads me to ask: if there are "anti-Haruhi-ists", where are the "anti-School Rumble" and "anti-TH2" people? The backlash may be huge for Haruhi, but there wouldn't be a backlash if there wasn't an equal amount of support, if not greater, out there. So I wouldn't be too pessimistic for the SuzuHaru girls just yet.

When I first brought up the subject, I never meant to imply that an "anti-Haruhi" faction would have a significant impact when a major SHnY character is matched against minor opposition. My point was that in a closely matched race, it doesn't take very many people who are voting "anybody but..." to swing the outcome. I don't think there is a huge "anti-Haruhi" faction. Certainly nothing compared to the "I hate Naruto" crowd or the "pro-Haruhi" contingent. But there is a significant amount of negativity about SHnY (often directed toward the fans) floating around out there, and you don't have to look very hard to find it. The question is whether or not the people who feel that way vote in this tournament, and if so, how many of them are there? There aren't enough data points yet for me to hazard a guess. But I'll be watching those contests with interest....

As far as "anti-School Rumble" or "anti-ToHeart2" factions - There probably are people who don't like those series, but I haven't seen any really virulent negativity toward them. Plus both of those have been out for quite awhile: people who like them still care, but backlash - if any ever existed - has probably worn itself out long before now. SHnY, however, is still fresh in everyone's minds.

Edit...

Originally Posted by rooboy666

Unfortunately today I find myself in the bind of voting for Haruhi (a character that isn't even my favorite in her own series) instead of Warashi (a character that I love) otherwise I become branded an "anti-Haruhi-ist".

I hope the branding part was said tongue in cheek, otherwise I will wind up falling in the same camp. Until today, the only SHnY character I have voted for has been Tsuruya-san. (I like Eri, but genki will usually trump tsundere when it comes to my own moe~ property) Actually, the only character who I would vote for no matter WHO she was up against is already gone (yes, I really do like Nerine that much).

Today's votes:

1. Yakumo
2. None
3. Haruhi

[Daniel E.]

Dont recognize anybody from the first two groups, so I'll just vote for Haruhi today.

Hope I dont get into any anti-haruhiist black list or something like that.

[melange]

I've pretty much been voting whoever I felt was most moe for me in each match. To go think about 'strategic voting' out characters who will challenge my favourites a couple of rounds down the road takes more brain power than I can spare for the moment. Exceptions are characters I positively and absolutely hate (Eri! Rino! I'm looking at you!), then I vote for the opponent I think is most likely to beat the one I dislike.

For the next round Yakumo gets my vote. Also much as it hurts me since I like both Reinforce II and Zashiki-warashi... the moe reaction I had for Suzumiya Haruhi from the slight glimpse at the end of ep 1 was off the charts so...

[niwasatou]

I will vote Hazumu. Ueda Kana just voices her sooo moe
And of course Morinas. But not Haruhi, no I like her, but.. she's not my moe..

[Arimfe]

http://www.geocities.jp/imo_hot7000/data2006/he.html
Did you guys see the avatar they put up for Mikuru?

It's perfect as her winning pic as well as her losing pic.
Mikuru is sooo going to own, with that av she will be nothing but lethal in terms of moe deadlyness.

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Now I'd certainly like to see the so-called "anti-Haruhi-ists" topple THE Haruhi with two characters that can be considered minor.

I doubt they can do anything to Haruhi though.

Originally Posted by rooboy666

Voting is not going to be a zero sum game. Votes should increase somewhat over time as people (like me) who didn't vote in initial rounds start to drift in and vote in later ones.

I'd just like to note that there are also cases when a character simply decrease in votes like Becky(821->549), though in these cases it's likely because competition wasn't taken seriously so some of the fans might have slacked off, however this shouldn't have had much relevance in a big match like Eri/Tsuruya.
The natural increase in votes you talk about can be observed in the performance of the Aria girls and some of the My Otome girls.
But what happened to Eri was a little bit more extreme, etreme enough for me to personally reach suspicion...

Originally Posted by rooboy666

As Furudanuki said, negative voting is a part of every poll - is MoSH attracting more of it because it was a more popular series? Yes, without a question.

Well, as long as you do recognize that there are negative voters out there, we are in basic agreement.

Originally Posted by rooboy666

However, I have a hard time believing it outweighs the people who are voting for these characters purely because they were in MoSH.

I'm just not sure why you at some point misunderstood me.

Originally Posted by myself

My guess is somehow all the School Rumble fans managed to combine their strengths with whatever unknown anti-Haruhi forces out there to defeat Tsuruya.

I never said anything about all 970 of Eri's votes were from anti-Haruhi people.
Or maybe I also misunderstood you somewhere.

Originally Posted by rooboy666

And as for some anti-Haruhi bias - every series I like has had characters eliminated, not just MoSH. Many of those characters were far more important and/or moe parts of their series than the characters we're discussing here. Are their conspiracies against them as well? All three of the remaining PPD girls are in the same bracket - is there an anti PPD bias?

It's hard to tell really. To get any clues of how many negative voters(if any at all) for these lesser popular series, we would need a mind reader.

Originally Posted by rooboy666

Unfortunately today I find myself in the bind of voting for Haruhi (a character that isn't even my favorite in her own series) instead of Warashi (a character that I love) otherwise I become branded an "anti-Haruhi-ist".

Personally I can only encourage you to vote whoever you want to vote. Hopefully you are not talking about me...
I haven't branded anyone personally in this thread like that. You only have yourself to blame if you actually voted against a character you wanted to vote for the most.

[Muir Woods]

Originally Posted by Arimfe

It's exactly what you said, popularity contest, despite its name "moe".
It's merely to measure which characters/series are "in" and which characters/series are "out". Kinda like fashion for the masses of anime otaku i'd guess.

While I see where you come from, I personally don't feel disgusted at all.

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

Personally, I think this is actually one of the better popularity contests going around since the criteria to qualify is fairly stringent. But, I'm willing to admit that, at the end of the day, that's all it is: a popularity contest. And because of that, obviously there are some characters that are inevitably going to be overlooked by the population at large, even if you think they're more deserving. That's just the way it is.

The problem is, if this is just a popularity contest, then the "moe" criteria is a farce. Then why not just plain label it "your favorite anime female character of the year" contest, and not anime "moe". To inaccurately call a competition with a basis on a rule, and then only following it loosely, if at all, only serves to mislead, if not an outright lie. And to base a competition on an opaque and ill-defined concept (anyone remember the "What is 'moe' thread"? Even kj1980 himself once pointed out that it was difficult to explain in words what it is), only further lowers its credibility and validity from a critical point of view. And I already understand the implications of a popularity contest, where to my disheartenment injustices occur. But come on, be honest, Sorrow-K (and others), for those of you who has watched both Mushishi and The Melancholy of Suzumiya, compare the stature of Kyon's sister and Tanyuu, and consider prudently. Do you really believe that my assertion that Tanyuu is a superior character is merely just what I think, or maybe there is a majority consensus that has yet to be confirmed. If so, do you now understand why I will not be satisfied until there is some kind of alternative exposition/analysis that great but more obscure characters, not just Tanyuu (she's just my best example, there may be other fantastic characters I do not know about), are given more than just a fleeting notice and are properly acclaimed.

[C.A.]

Well, I no longer see it as a moe contest, you see,even Haman Karn is in it. And its clear that she won her round by popularity.

[Daniel E.]

Can someone post the japanese characters for Haruhi please?

I have been copy/pasting them so far, but I dont see them in Kinny Riddle's post this time around.

EDIT: oh sorry, I think I can see them now. Still, if anyone could repost them just to be sure.

[Woland]

All 3 group this time

1 - Yakumo... not nearly good as the Ojou but still a very likeble one
2 - of course Alicia (Morinas was not a bad choice either)
3 - Reinforce II was tempting (I think I don't have to specify for who I voted )


Edit:

Originally Posted by Daniel E.

Can someone post the japanese characters for Haruhi please?

I have been copy/pasting them so far, but I dont see them in Kinny Riddle's post this time around.

EDIT: oh sorry, I think I can see them now. Still, if anyone could repost them just to be sure.

<<涼宮ハルヒ＠涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱>>

[otacu]

This is not a moe contest and it's not even a character popularity contest....

it's an ANIME popularity contest.

It's quite different. The people vote the show and the actual character is only a secondary thing. It's all about fanboysm and that's why Haruhi, Rozen Maiden and Nanoka will probably dominate this contest.

The Tsuruya-Eri result didn't surprise me in the least. I was actually surprised to see Tsuruya get all those votes... she was a seconday character with really few screentime and yet she managed to get near the princess of School Rumble (the second season is devoted to her and Harima).

There are probably people who are anti-Haruhi but the Haruhi fanboys are an horde and are much more. Just look at the chart.... the Haruhi fanboys managed to get ALL the female characters from the show past the qualification round. There is even the guitarist (who didn't even play at the concert) of the School Festival (and they had to attach ENOZ to make clear who the hell she was cause nobody knew her name), the maid of the island and the girlfriend of the Computer club. Characters who were barely showed in the show for 1-2 minutes.

Do you really think they are moe? or popular? most people don't even remember their name or who they were.
So why did they get voted. The managed to pass the qualifications! It was thanks to the fanboys of the anime. They didn't vote the characters but the anime.

So for those who are worried about Anti-Haruhi people... rest assured, there is an army of Haruhi fanboys out there who will support their show no matter what as they have done so far.

[Zappster]

I think some people are taking this whole thing a little too seriously.

[aeroshadow]

Originally Posted by Muir Woods

The problem is, if this is just a popularity contest, then the "moe" criteria is a farce. Then why not just plain label it "your favorite anime female character of the year" contest, and not anime "moe". To inaccurately call a competition with a basis on a rule, and then only following it loosely, if at all, only serves to mislead, if not an outright lie. And to base a competition on an opaque and ill-defined concept (anyone remember the "What is 'moe' thread"? Even kj1980 himself once pointed out that it was difficult to explain in words what it is), only further lowers its credibility and validity from a critical point of view. And I already understand the implications of a popularity contest, where to my disheartenment injustices occur. But come on, be honest, Sorrow-K (and others), for those of you who has watched both Mushishi and The Melancholy of Suzumiya, compare the stature of Kyon's sister and Tanyuu, and consider prudently. Do you really believe that my assertion that Tanyuu is a superior character is merely just what I think, or maybe there is a majority consensus that has yet to be confirmed. If so, do you now understand why I will not be satisfied until there is some kind of alternative exposition/analysis that great but more obscure characters, not just Tanyuu (she's just my best example, there may be other fantastic characters I do not know about), are given more than just a fleeting notice and are properly acclaimed.

Yes, yes, it is a farce, it is an outright lie, the name is misleading as it is indeed a popularity contest, "moe" isn't even a clear term, yes, you are probably right on pretty much everything you say, yes, yes, whatever. What do you expect? Trying to validly find the most "moe" or "best" character of the year is pretty much impossible. If you think this contest is doing a disservice to the "moe" term, so have tons of other random Japanese shows like Densha Otoko or something. It doesn't really matter much.

In the end, this whole tournament isn't meant to be taken that way. It's a mindless popularity contest. It doesn't have any real credibility. Just look at the way the brackets are set up; they're done completely randomly with no seeding at all, so even as a mindless popularity contest, some popular characters won't even get the credit they deserve (Last year, Fate got eliminated in the first round).

So what? This is all just for fun. I know I'm getting my share. ^_^

[Mr. Guy]

Originally Posted by C.A.

Well, I no longer see it as a moe contest, you see,even Haman Karn is in it. And its clear that she won her round by popularity.

Haman Karn's moe to me

Which just further goes to show that having a contest based off moe is something extremely difficult. What's moe to me may not be moe to someone else, and vice-versa.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by aeroshadow

So what? This is all just for fun. I know I'm getting my share. ^_^

Exactly - it's like the NCAA bracket with killer dolls (Sugintou), WMD (Fate and Nanoha), and loli power galore (too many to mention).

The only thing that would be better is if we had a week after the qualifying round to print out brackets and enter into pools based on how we think the voting will go.

[Kikaifan]

Ow. I like everyone in group 51 a lot. I think I'll just let Haruhiism take its course and not touch that.

[Sorrow-K]

<fanboy>OH GOD I HOPE YAKUMO WINS</fanboy>

[panzerfan]

Well that argument got heated.
At anyrate, this really is a popularity contest. I suppose taking it with a light heart is required. Bickering like Anonymii of 4chan isn't of any benefit to us.
Group E no doubt is Suzumiya Haruhi on the loose. That said, it isn't everything.
By the way, think Star Bright of Strawberry Panic! is every bit a character as RH?

[Arimfe]

Originally Posted by Muir Woods

The problem is, if this is just a popularity contest, then the "moe" criteria is a farce. Then why not just plain label it "your favorite anime female character of the year" contest, and not anime "moe". To inaccurately call a competition with a basis on a rule, and then only following it loosely, if at all, only serves to mislead, if not an outright lie.

You know, it's very possible that at least some of the managers behind the tournament intended it to be a "true" moe competition. Which is why it was named the way it is(I think^^;; ).
It's obvious that they can't control how people think, they can't control the different biases people have.
This doesn't mean that there aren't people who really try to vote by the moe criteria though regardless of their favourites.
I don't think we should blame the tournament managers for how things turned out because of how people voted, there isn't much for them to do unless they have some funny mind controlling psychic powers.

Originally Posted by otacu

So for those who are worried about Anti-Haruhi people... rest assured, there is an army of Haruhi fanboys out there who will support their show no matter what as they have done so far.

I don't think it matters how many Haruhi fanboys there are now. Among Mikuru, Haru and Yuki only 1 will survive the E1/E2 clash at best, no amount of voters can do anything about this.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by Arimfe

I don't think it matters how many Haruhi fanboys there are now. Among Mikuru, Haru and Yuki only 1 will survive the E1/E2 clash at best, no amount of voters can do anything about this.

I hate to venture this opinion, but I'm kind of glad about this. I know I would have had to have voted for Mikuru and Yuki against just about anyone. I'd rather see the top four come from different shows if possible. In the same way it's irritating when Duke and North Carolina (both ACC teams) get to the Final Four.

Though what'd be really interesting is if we had dedicated brackets - like a loli bracket, a tsundere bracket, etc, etc. The fourth bracket could be the misc bracket (for characters with slightly more obscure moe types). Though I guess a lot of characters would kind of blur the edges.

Anyway ... back to your regularly scheduled discussion.