Kamen Rider General Discussion

[Dengar]

Is this another one of those times where people are going to act like the viewer just knows everything that happens in the movie without explaining any of it? Because I hated it when Zi-O did that. Like even in the country of origin you can't just expect the audience to go to the movies for you.

[GDB]

Yes, they felt that 3 weeks was enough to ensure everyone who cared would watch it.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Is this another one of those times where people are going to act like the viewer just knows everything that happens in the movie without explaining any of it? Because I hated it when Zi-O did that. Like even in the country of origin you can't just expect the audience to go to the movies for you.

I'm just going off the preview but it doesn't seem that way to me, it looks like this will be her first time transforming. No clue if this contradicts the plot of the movie or what (like, maybe they could say the movie took place in Daybreak's timeline?).

[Tactics]

Rinne situation is OK-ish IMO since you can saw her held Majade Driver around time Kyouka introduced.
So while its not the correct explanation by movie, at least the connection is not far-fetched as Kyouka confirmed Driver is manufactured.
Not to mention there's method like slip in flashback in midst of Majade debut like how Houtarou got flashback of previous user transformation.

So there's still chance she won't be like Zi-O who got W Ridewatch out of nowhere in series also Ohma Zi-O 'redeemed' without mention about Ohma Form.
What possibly missing from series would be X-Chemies sub-plot that resolved in movie. Previously hyped by Sisters as intermediary before Cosmic and Fantastic series and anticipated by Alchemist Community, then suddenly we got Moon, powered-up one nonetheless, while the Community for an unknown reason dissatisfied with Licht; can't see Rainbow Gotchard easily fix this.

Legend also appears in Arc 2 promotional poster near Daybreak IIRC, so expect some Legend tie-in later.

[kiak666]

Looks like 555 Paradise Regained is out in theaters in Japan, and spoilers are out:

Spoiler for Major Spoilers:

- Faiz Next jobs hard, even with Axel form.
- Main villain is apparently a robotic replica of Kitazaki working for Smart Brain.
- Reina (Kamen Rider Muez) develops feeling for Takumi, she ends up being killed by the fake Kitazaki, who then becomes the second Muez.
- Mari ends up being captured by Smart Brain and was forcibly transformed into an Orphnoch.
- In the final battle, Takumi transforms into the original Faiz and fights Kitazaki with the help of Orphnoch Mari.
- Thankfully, they didn't pull an OOO on the ending, as the movie ends with Takumi and Mari setting up a new laundry shop.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by GDB

Yes, they felt that 3 weeks was enough to ensure everyone who cared would watch it.

What about people who care about the show but not the movie?

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Dengar

What about people who care about the show but not the movie?

Toei: "How many times we need to tell you're not our target audience?"

Originally Posted by kiak666

Looks like 555 Paradise Regained is out in theaters in Japan, and spoilers are out:

Spoiler for Major Spoilers:

- Faiz Next jobs hard, even with Axel form.
- Main villain is apparently a robotic replica of Kitazaki working for Smart Brain.
- Reina (Kamen Rider Muez) develops feeling for Takumi, she ends up being killed by the fake Kitazaki, who then becomes the second Muez.
- Mari ends up being captured by Smart Brain and was forcibly transformed into an Orphnoch.
- In the final battle, Takumi transforms into the original Faiz and fights Kitazaki with the help of Orphnoch Mari.
- Thankfully, they didn't pull an OOO on the ending, as the movie ends with Takumi and Mari setting up a new laundry shop.

Spoiler for :

Saw clips of it and...

Man, I get that they wanted to deliver "Faiz Next is not the true Takumi" but Next Accel lose even with wormhole generator is overdoing it.

They did good job on showing why Faiz Next design is good, unfortunately not so much for Muse

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Toei: "How many times we need to tell you're not our target audience?"

Spoiler for :

Saw clips of it and...

Man, I get that they wanted to deliver "Faiz Next is not the true Takumi" but Next Accel lose even with wormhole generator is overdoing it.

They did good job on showing why Faiz Next design is good, unfortunately not so much for Muse

I didn't say anything about myself tho. I know you're being lighthearted, I'm just saying. There's no way you can expect anyone to go see a movie just to understand what's going on in your show.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I didn't say anything about myself tho. I know you're being lighthearted, I'm just saying. There's no way you can expect anyone to go see a movie just to understand what's going on in your show.

They already calculated it, that's my point.

Look no further than Geats. All that Geats IX repaint, Xplosion Rage Buffa and Ichigo Glare won't sell unless audience follow movies and side-materials.
Revice even more obvious with explanation about Hiromi, Vail, Destream, Chimera and to certain extent, Juuga, locked behind side-materials. I think I talked about it before that Toei went too far with such method during Revice, then again they won't do it unless they knew for sure KR target audiences willing to consume side-materials and movies as well.

So no exception to anyone who said, "I only care about series", for Toei its a "You" problem. Not theirs.
The best that kind of people can do is praying so movies and side-materials are inconsequential which unlikely to happen, especially side-stories, since it relatively safe method to add toys without cluttering series while make use of popular character effectively (such as Kaito, Takatora, Kuroto, Fuwa, Hiromi, TsudaKen as Vail; recently fans wondered if they could get mini-series about Daybreak-timeline Houtarou). Lack of tie-in to series would make it less interesting to follow.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Tactics

They already calculated it, that's my point.

Look no further than Geats. All that Geats IX repaint, Xplosion Rage Buffa and Ichigo Glare won't sell unless audience follow movies and side-materials.
Revice even more obvious with explanation about Hiromi, Vail, Destream, Chimera and to certain extent, Juuga, locked behind side-materials. I think I talked about it before that Toei went too far with such method during Revice, then again they won't do it unless they knew for sure KR target audiences willing to consume side-materials and movies as well.

So no exception to anyone who said, "I only care about series", for Toei its a "You" problem. Not theirs.
The best that kind of people can do is praying so movies and side-materials are inconsequential which unlikely to happen, especially side-stories, since it relatively safe method to add toys without cluttering series while make use of popular character effectively (such as Kaito, Takatora, Kuroto, Fuwa, Hiromi, TsudaKen as Vail; recently fans wondered if they could get mini-series about Daybreak-timeline Houtarou). Lack of tie-in to series would make it less interesting to follow.

You are exaggerating. The main series of Geats at no point relied on side material. I would know, I didn't watch any.

I watched like one thing for Revice, and once again, didn't rely on it. Only Zi-O was ever egregious about it.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I watched like one thing for Revice, and once again, didn't rely on it.

I'm following Revice series-only and I have no issue to say focus on Vail and Destream while they're dealing with Akaishi is annoying.
Series expect you to sympathize with Genta circumstances as a whole, all while Giff and Akaishi desperately need screentime to tell audience they're threatening. Without Vail side-story, Destream just come across as "nice fight but how about Akaishi and Giff" rather than "fine, this guy finally put end to his inner demon after 25 years".

Besides, if you look back:

- Den-O gave two episodes for Gaoh and God's Line, suddenly on next episode Gaoh already defeated, problem solved.
- W got Jun Kazu researched T2 Gaia Memories, suddenly T2 GM doesn't matter, he resorted to Utopia (and Fuuto Tower destroyed).
- Fourze got school festival skipped; suddenly Gentarou pulled Rocket Form switch, thanked Nadeshiko, in midst of his fight against Emoto.
- Drive got Banno hijacked Belt-san program, some episodes later Belt-san is fine without explanation, Shinnosuke also suddenly aware of Kiriko.

Somehow Majade is worth complaining over suddenly resolved X-Chemies subplot despite it only three weeks gap while preview shown they still treated it as her first transformation, ignoring fact the episode is not aired yet?

DGP Staffs got decent explanation from movies and side-materials, as I said, it "helps" if you're a fan.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Somehow Majade is worth complaining over suddenly resolved X-Chemies subplot despite it only three weeks gap while preview shown they still treated it as her first transformation, ignoring fact the episode is not aired yet?

That's probably because we didn't know the X-Chemies' plot was resolved in the movie. The fuck, they made such a big deal over them in the show...

[GDB]

The only example I can think of similar to this honestly was W's first movie. Spent so long hyping up the inevitable talk he'd have to have with Akiko about what happened to her dad, and then... next episode she's found out and trying to come to terms with it because it all happened in the movie.

Though not sure if that was something you "knew" was going to happen back then or not, like how this was so out of nowhere for a plot resolution. Usually these movies either introduce a new thing that carries over (whether minor or major) or do nothing. Resolving an existing, important plot point is very odd.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That's probably because we didn't know the X-Chemies' plot was resolved in the movie. The fuck, they made such a big deal over them in the show...

IIRC it talked on episode when Geryon accepted by Alchemist Community.

The higher-ups considered Licht failure as part of why they should accept Geryon and antagonize Houtarou party.
Licht in his debut only interested on X-Chemies. Dark Sisters suddenly let X-Chemies gone from story as if forgot how in UFO-X episodes their focus shifted to X-Chemies to take lead of the race since they're the strongest of each category; basically ignore everyday Pokemon, to focus on more competitive Pokemon, thus Sabimaru and Renge can obtain regular Chemies safely compare to earlier episodes.

All pointed to X-Chemies subplot already resolved in Geats crossover movie. Well, from writing standpoint, its a bad decision to have Daybreak and Geryon started story arc driven by hunting legendary Pokemon two last Chemy categories, unless all other Chemies already collected regardless of medium.

[Tactics]

https://twitter.com/animejapan_aj/st...01777295004058

Back then Toei registered new project called Ride Kamens.

However no information about what format it will be.

Now Anime Japan 2024 line-up revealed, Ride Kamens is confirmed as anime.

Nice to know Fuuto Pi anime considered a success

Side note, Yuya Takahashi (Ex-Aid, Zero One and Geats writer) made tweets about it, Japanese audiences suspect he will be the writer.

[Kanon]

I wonder why they chose such a different title for this anime. Granted, it's not that different.

Maybe instead of being about masked people riding bikes, it will be about bikes riding masked people

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Tactics

- Den-O gave two episodes for Gaoh and God's Line, suddenly on next episode Gaoh already defeated, problem solved.

The Gaoh movie relied on knowledge of the show, not the other way around. Nothing happens during the show that you need to watch the movie for to understand. I would know because I wasn't able to watch the movie as it aired, and had zero, and I repeat, zero confusion about the plot of the show. Sieg and Wing Form were introduced before the movie. The events leading to Ryotarou's failure to remember fighting as three of the imagins, and the imagins' impending disappearance, leading to the advent of Climax Form were also handled during the show itself, as we witness Ryotarou's abduction at several points, and in the subsequent episodes it was explained, in words, very clearly, what was going on.

Originally Posted by Tactics

- W got Jun Kazu researched T2 Gaia Memories, suddenly T2 GM doesn't matter, he resorted to Utopia (and Fuuto Tower destroyed).

I don't understand why this is even a point, by your own admittance, the events of the movie weren't relevant.

Originally Posted by Tactics

- Fourze got school festival skipped; suddenly Gentarou pulled Rocket Form switch, thanked Nadeshiko, in midst of his fight against Emoto.

Happened at the very end of the show, he literally referred to Nadeshiko, who is a character from the movie, which I would have known about even without watching the movie. It also lasted for a very short while.

Originally Posted by Tactics

- Drive got Banno hijacked Belt-san program, some episodes later Belt-san is fine without explanation, Shinnosuke also suddenly aware of Kiriko.

I... honestly have no idea what this is even referring to. I don't even recall watching the Drive movie tbh, or if I did watch it, it wasn't very memorable. Either way, if I missed something important pertaining to the series, I'd know.

Originally Posted by Tactics

Somehow Majade is worth complaining over suddenly resolved X-Chemies subplot despite it only three weeks gap while preview shown they still treated it as her first transformation, ignoring fact the episode is not aired yet?

I think you might be misunderstanding me here. There isn't really anything to complain about since the thing worth complaining about has yet to happen. I am merely worrying that something like this will happen. Like in the Zi-O example. I don't even know who or what Majade is.

Originally Posted by Tactics

DGP Staffs got decent explanation from movies and side-materials, as I said, it "helps" if you're a fan.

Sure but I really don't think I missed anything by not having watched any of it.

[B214]

For Zi-O the movie and the TV series are different timelines so both are technically canon.

[Dengar]

I wouldn't know. I didn't watch it. All I saw was him pulling a new form out of his ass, with absolutely zero explanation of how he got it. (the italic part is important)

[Tactics]

Long texts about how Climax and Liner Form done well because it appear in series first instead of movie and fit narrative ...

Rocket Form came out of nowhere is totally fine because it happened by end of series.
Ignoring lack of explanation about who is Nadeshiko and how could a Form Switch outside Kengo's blueprint exist.

Falchion and Emotional Dragon Saber came out of nowhere.
A new, criminal Rider who somehow knew Touma and a new form, with no build up in midst of Master Logos arc nonetheless.
This new form without any explanation managed to bypass Mumeiken Kyoumu's void element while Elemental Dragon can't. No complaint.

Majade made her debut in movie first. Consider it a terrible decision done by Toei despite:
- This is not the first time secondary appear in movie first, there's Mach helping Belt-san in Drive x Gaim movie prior to his debut in Drive;
- Rinne can be seen doing transformation in OP since second arc begin, also unknown white Rider alongside Gotchard and Valvarad;
- Kyouka and Spanner playing chess while lampshaded how, why and who will be upcoming Riders on protagonist side;
- Majade reintroduced in series yesterday.

All I can get from you breaking down my post is: "If I care enough about it then its fine, if not then bad" also lack of explanation for new form and new Riders are fine as long it happened on last leg of series.