AnimeSuki Forums

Goggen · 2011-04-26, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordy Lechance

But NO!! Haruhi's world was much more "fun." So he takes away Yuki-chan's right to have a heart; to laugh, to cry, to love and to feel, just so everything can be more fun.

Jeez.

Kyon made the only right choice. Not just for himself, but for humanity. It's not like this was a choice between two equally "valid" worlds - on was (as far as we - and Kyon- knows, anyway) the real world, the original world. The other, an altered reality that changed the lives of probably hundreds; possibly millions of people - and not for the sake of the betterment of their lives, but for the sake of making the entire fucking universe meet the desires of one person. No one has the right to do that, and yes; Yuki's act was selfish in the extreme.

So - Kyon's action was not merely to pick the reality that was the "most fun", or the most convenient, but to set things right. Though his motives may not have been so noble as that, his course of action was the right one. The only right one.

Kogetsu Shirogane · 2011-04-26, 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

I call it genocide because that's what it might as well be. For some of the special people, their identity is tied up entirely in their role, especially in the case of Yuki's group. Once they lose their jobs, they lose who they are. A change that drastic, resulting in different friends, different skill sets, and different memories, makes someone a completely different person. It would be like someone telling me, "Okay, your name is now Bob, you're a garbageman, and by the way, this is your new past. Your old past is gone forever." They've just killed off who I am.

How does this explanation justify your claim that KYON committed an act of genocide, exactly?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamer_2k4

Also, don't forget that this is a world with a concrete future (as evidenced by the time travelers' presence and duties), meaning that Yuki's change precludes the existence of people that, in the old world, were very real. It's one thing for us to make one decision over another, precluding one future or another, because our future remains hypothetical. The people in the future, to the best of our knowledge, DON'T exist. In the Haruhi universe, however, the future is very strongly defined. People may live a year, ten years, a century in the future, but they do exist. They're more than a hypothesis or a chance possibility. By altering the world and altering that future, Yuki HAS essentially killed off all the people that now will never come into being.

If we're really going to throw the "concrete future" card out there, Nagato knew three years in advance what she would do, what "choice" Kyon would make, and how his mission would turn out. The ultimate outcome of everything that transpired in this story was inevitable since before the start of the series. The only people who were "killed" were the people of the "Yukiverse," who never had a future in the first place, because again, the future is set in stone according to that theory.

Gamer_2k4 · 2011-04-26, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

How does this explanation justify your claim that KYON committed an act of genocide, exactly?

I don't believe I said Kyon was responsible for it. I just said he had to pick between two equally nasty options (destroying the original world, or destroying the new one). Yuki's the one that gets full blame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

If we're really going to throw the "concrete future" card out there, Nagato knew three years in advance what she would do, what "choice" Kyon would make, and how his mission would turn out. The ultimate outcome of everything that transpired in this story was inevitable since before the start of the series. The only people who were "killed" were the people of the "Yukiverse," who never had a future in the first place, because again, the future is set in stone according to that theory.

I can't argue with that. Just remember that my argument was concerning the original change, though, not Kyon's reversion.

Ithekro · 2011-04-26, 18:55

All things that deal with time travel or the future depend greatly on ones impression of it.

However, in our terms, you cannot kill anyone in the future from the present because of a choice or a change because you can't kill something that doesn't exist. Despite Mikuru's explainations, the future is always in motion. We have seen that choices can be made and time altered, thus the future is not fixed. Thus you have Mikuru's people...what are they doing? Mikuru herself shouldn't be there at all, but she is...times two. Kyon shouldn't be able to go back in time, yet he does. Two weeks shouldn't be able to repeated, with variances, at all, yet they did....15,532 times. Even in a closed time loop it is possible for the instances to change, thus time is not fixed, no matter what Mikuru's people claim.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2011-05-01, 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

All things that deal with time travel or the future depend greatly on ones impression of it.

However, in our terms, you cannot kill anyone in the future from the present because of a choice or a change because you can't kill something that doesn't exist. Despite Mikuru's explainations, the future is always in motion. We have seen that choices can be made and time altered, thus the future is not fixed. Thus you have Mikuru's people...what are they doing? Mikuru herself shouldn't be there at all, but she is...times two. Kyon shouldn't be able to go back in time, yet he does. Two weeks shouldn't be able to repeated, with variances, at all, yet they did....15,532 times. Even in a closed time loop it is possible for the instances to change, thus time is not fixed, no matter what Mikuru's people claim.

Mikuru's people most definitely DON'T think the future is fixed. Otherwise they wouldn't have been so damn careful about doing what they do.

The entire purpose of the time travellers going to the past was to protect their own future. Yes, it is true that the future haven't permanently changed "yet", but it is obvious that adult Mikuru is spending her working life dedicated to timeline consistency. If future was truly fixed and eternal, she wouldn't need to work so hard. In fact, she wouldn't need to do anything at all.

One could argue the future isn't so much fixed as being held in place. The time travellers have been building scaffolds and placing sandbags around the timeline to stop the future changing. Because if the future truly changed, it would be too late to do anything about it.

Archon_Wing · 2011-05-03, 02:00

Imagine if the timeline was changed so that you were a completely different person. Your memories are all a lie, and worst yet you'd never know it happened.

I guess it "doesn't matter" since to the new "you" nothing actually happens. But hey, it's the lives of everyone in existence, and usually the decision is too big for someone to make for all of them. Unless of course, it was something like earth blowing up... But usually, you don't want to fiddle with these things.

Kyon did have his reasons.

wistfulloner · 2011-05-10, 09:56

Haha, I think we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves here. There wasn't any genocide at all, in the strictest sense of the word. People from the old world still existed in the new one by Yuki, no one disappeared, no one died. As far as Yuki was concerned, what needed to be changed was the students' memories and positions in society, nothing more. It'd be a bit extreme to call it genocide.

Furthermore, those changed weren't even aware of it. For all you know, those of the old world weren't destroyed at all, they may still be living happily in the backup program created by Yuki, waiting to be reactivated by Kyon.

Unless you want to discuss the philosophical meaning behind creating a new world then deleting its inhabitants and its equation to genocide, its would be safe to say no one was physically harmed in The Disappearance. (Except kyon perhaps; poor guy, his life is pushed around by the women around him)

Kogetsu Shirogane · 2011-05-10, 10:18

Well, Asakura died. Again. Sort of. Hard to say with her, really.

Ithekro · 2011-05-10, 11:08

Since she appeared again, I'd say that Yuki just converted her to raw data the first time around, since their people can't create data, it makes sense that they cannot destroy data either, just convert it into a different form. So Asakura likely went back into storage.

Gamer_2k4 · 2011-05-10, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

Unless you want to discuss the philosophical meaning behind creating a new world then deleting its inhabitants and its equation to genocide

I was under the impression that that's what we were doing... <_<

OkamiNoKaze · 2011-05-16, 01:42

Finally got a chance to watch this great movie, the movie's length made it a bit hard to find time to watch it. I was surprised but delighted to hear the original theme song was used, liked Haruhi's little warm up routine. While Alt. Yuki was cute, like Kyon I prefer the real one, same goes for Haruhi, though the long hair really does suit her.Kyon delivers some great monologues as well, especially that final internal conflict, was it just me or did his "Inner Kamina" (thanks Triple R for that phrase) sound a bit closer to Sugita's Gintoki voice? There was a bit of foreshadowing, but Ryouko was fantasticly psychotic, spinning around. "Bed head" Haruhi hilarious but she still looked good. Liked Kyon telling off the Data overmind, and the Yuki/Snowing scene does have me wonder how the dub will do that line. I was hoping we would see the party, I wonder if it's the party we see in Haruhi-chan? Or is that covered in a later book?
Lastly I liked the ending theme song.

Jan-Poo · 2011-05-19, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

Well, Asakura died. Again. Sort of. Hard to say with her, really.

I can't blame someone for killing someone else who tried to kill him twice.

-Sho- · 2011-05-20, 18:38

Finally watched it , i won't argue much about it , just , Awesome Movie , all in this movie , nuff's said. Waiting for the next.

CrimsonSunshine · 2011-05-25, 01:39

Heh, I like Kyon's decision, because I like Haruhi more than anyone. His decision was the right one, but truthfully, having Haruhi around is the only thing I care for. Some may despise Kyon for taking away Yuki's happiness, but Yuki's happiness goes against Haruhi's happiness, if I'm correct. Just a thought, there. So, it's a matter of personal opinion. Though, most everyone seems to speculate further, I just go with the simple thought of, Yuki's happy world or Haruhi's happy world. Which one you like better, probably has something to do with which character you like better. Maybe.

rulfo · 2011-05-25, 10:32

Now I know I'm late and all but I got to read around some of the discussion about Haruhi being useless against nagato.

Maybe it might've been speculated already but here it goes.

I think Nagato wasn't able to take Haruhi's power completely or render it completely useless. Just surpressed to the point that it may seem non existent. The thing is when Kyon mentioned he is John Smith one would think such sparks might've been a great way to start the flame again. Sure Haruhi may look normal in the movie but hasn't she been that way since the whole series began? Without Itsuki, Nagato, and Mikuru we wouldn't actually know she was extraordinary.

Original Nagato's message was just an instruction or a sign. It needed something in order to be achieved which in this case Haruhi getting worked up about Kyon's story. She made everything possible to run things beyond Nagato's control.

Well that's about it. So I don't see what some people say that it is a plot hole of some sort. It's just that it hasn't been explained yet but as you can see this case can be quite the explanation we're looking for if I'm correct/lucky.

Kayoubi · 2011-07-09, 02:19

Oh wow, just finished this marathon of a movie and I still want more! It's been so long since I've remembered watching anything haruhi and this really brings it all back.

It felt weird how everything revolved around yuki more than haruhi for a change. I'm wondering if this is to accustom the more recent fanbase. But innumerable memorable moments of super moe yuki in this movie.

Spoiler for scene:

It was a story that could've gone off the ledge in complexity but the producers did a fabulous job to explain in more detail certain past plot points when necessary. Time travel always fascinates me, especially when it revolves around mind-twirling space-time discrepancies to sort out.

Anon4life · 2011-08-01, 02:24

I just saw the movie dubbed at Otakon 2011...I don't think we invented words good enough to describe my love of that movie. But love come close. That had everything, it made me feel all of my emotions, several times. I don't think I can talk about which parts I liked, because honestly, I enjoyed every minute of that nearly 3 hour movie, and everything about it. I especially loved the characters, ALL OF THEM. Reasons for liking the main characters have been probably stated many times by now, so I'll talk about Asakura:

Spoiler for spoilers for TTGL and Haruhi:

I thought the series was good, but this movie felt perfect to me. The music was great. I loved the animation style -the way they had Kyon wake up every morning, the scene where Asakura was spinning around in front of Yuki (and the music that went with it). Having not had anything spoiled about the movie the climaxes and various twists hit my mind like a Mac Truck. >dat feel when Kyon says he's John Smith. Watching it Otakon was great, there was on the order of 1000 people in the room, and we all laughed, awwed, clapped, cheered, and cried silently together.

Sorry for the TL;dr post forum, but I think my head was gonna explode if I didn't share this experience. I hope you all loved the film too

s07195 · 2011-08-01, 16:47

Finally. Some posts that reflect the original purpose of this thread. Good job, reviewers.

Phew.

KyoKyo · 2011-08-20, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon4life

I just saw the movie dubbed at Otakon 2011...I don't think we invented words good enough to describe my love of that movie. But love come close. That had everything, it made me feel all of my emotions, several times. I don't think I can talk about which parts I liked, because honestly, I enjoyed every minute of that nearly 3 hour movie, and everything about it. I especially loved the characters, ALL OF THEM. Reasons for liking the main characters have been probably stated many times by now, so I'll talk about Asakura:

Spoiler for spoilers for TTGL and Haruhi:

I thought the series was good, but this movie felt perfect to me. The music was great. I loved the animation style -the way they had Kyon wake up every morning, the scene where Asakura was spinning around in front of Yuki (and the music that went with it). Having not had anything spoiled about the movie the climaxes and various twists hit my mind like a Mac Truck. >dat feel when Kyon says he's John Smith. Watching it Otakon was great, there was on the order of 1000 people in the room, and we all laughed, awwed, clapped, cheered, and cried silently together.

Sorry for the TL;dr post forum, but I think my head was gonna explode if I didn't share this experience. I hope you all loved the film too

Well I'm glad you enjoyed it. Like you, I watched the premier at Otakon 2011 but was in a row behind a group of extremely loud con attendees who insisted on overly-laughing at every moderately funny thing that happened (like when Kyon missed the soccer ball.) They would continue to laugh for minutes on end and it became difficult to hear.

AbZeroNow · 2011-09-05, 00:40

I received the DVDs for this movie from RightStuf a few days ago, having pre-ordered it around the end of July. I loved the dub and have said elsewhere that I loved Crispin Freeman's performance as Kyon(and I also give high marks for the work that Wendee Lee, Johnny Yong Bosch and Stephanie Sheh brought to it. Michelle Ruff was good in it too).

Having read the novel that the movie is based on about four or five times, I already knew the plot of the movie, and so the twists weren't a surprise to me. Having said that, the movie takes what was in the book, and basically hit all the right notes with it. Reading Kyon going crazy because things are not as they should be is one thing, actually seeing it happen and then hearing it as delivered by a top notch voice actor(Freeman and Sugita in the Japanese version) just took it to a different level. The range of emotions that Kyon goes through in this movie was a wonder in itself, and all of it was absolutely convincing. If this were live-action, we'd be talking Academy Award level of acting. The animation as always is just incredible, and Kyoto Animation's attention to detail is certainly present in this movie(for example, when Kyon is looking through his phone's address book and sees that Haruhi's phone number is no longer there, at the top of his address book is the name Sasaki in those Japanese characters). The rooftop scene near the end also shows us a very realistic view of Kobe(something that we can also see in one of the DVD extras).

There are quite a few rewatchable scenes in the movie, like Yuki's smile when Kyon is leaving her apartment, the rooftop scene where Kyon says "Yuki." The dub has a significant and well-timed pause before he says "it means snow, right?". I also loved GAR Kyon manhandling Taniguchi and then what he says when he leaves the classroom. Other than a few instances where the pace was a bit too slow, this was a great movie. I give it a 9/10.

View Poll Results: The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya - Rating
Perfect 10	236	64.31%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	95	25.89%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	25	6.81%
7 out of 10 : Good	7	1.91%
6 out of 10 : Average	3	0.82%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	1	0.27%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 367. You may not vote on this poll

2011-04-26, 18:55	Link #684
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	All things that deal with time travel or the future depend greatly on ones impression of it. However, in our terms, you cannot kill anyone in the future from the present because of a choice or a change because you can't kill something that doesn't exist. Despite Mikuru's explainations, the future is always in motion. We have seen that choices can be made and time altered, thus the future is not fixed. Thus you have Mikuru's people...what are they doing? Mikuru herself shouldn't be there at all, but she is...times two. Kyon shouldn't be able to go back in time, yet he does. Two weeks shouldn't be able to repeated, with variances, at all, yet they did....15,532 times. Even in a closed time loop it is possible for the instances to change, thus time is not fixed, no matter what Mikuru's people claim. __________________

2011-05-10, 10:18	Link #688
Kogetsu Shirogane Kneel Before Your King! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: My kingdom Age: 39	Well, Asakura died. Again. Sort of. Hard to say with her, really. __________________ WARNING: Kogetsu Shirogane cannot be held accountable for any actions taken by someone else. Potential side effects of communicating with this user include headaches, mild confusion, insanity, delirium, and jumping into fires. Do not expose this user to sunlight or water or feed this user after midnight. ... so you think you're a king now...

2011-05-10, 11:08	Link #689
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Since she appeared again, I'd say that Yuki just converted her to raw data the first time around, since their people can't create data, it makes sense that they cannot destroy data either, just convert it into a different form. So Asakura likely went back into storage. __________________

2011-05-16, 01:42	Link #691
OkamiNoKaze Senior Member Join Date: May 2009	Finally got a chance to watch this great movie, the movie's length made it a bit hard to find time to watch it. I was surprised but delighted to hear the original theme song was used, liked Haruhi's little warm up routine. While Alt. Yuki was cute, like Kyon I prefer the real one, same goes for Haruhi, though the long hair really does suit her.Kyon delivers some great monologues as well, especially that final internal conflict, was it just me or did his "Inner Kamina" (thanks Triple R for that phrase) sound a bit closer to Sugita's Gintoki voice? There was a bit of foreshadowing, but Ryouko was fantasticly psychotic, spinning around. "Bed head" Haruhi hilarious but she still looked good. Liked Kyon telling off the Data overmind, and the Yuki/Snowing scene does have me wonder how the dub will do that line. I was hoping we would see the party, I wonder if it's the party we see in Haruhi-chan? Or is that covered in a later book? Lastly I liked the ending theme song. __________________

2011-05-10, 09:56	Link #687
wistfulloner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Singapore	Haha, I think we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves here. There wasn't any genocide at all, in the strictest sense of the word. People from the old world still existed in the new one by Yuki, no one disappeared, no one died. As far as Yuki was concerned, what needed to be changed was the students' memories and positions in society, nothing more. It'd be a bit extreme to call it genocide. Furthermore, those changed weren't even aware of it. For all you know, those of the old world weren't destroyed at all, they may still be living happily in the backup program created by Yuki, waiting to be reactivated by Kyon. Unless you want to discuss the philosophical meaning behind creating a new world then deleting its inhabitants and its equation to genocide, its would be safe to say no one was physically harmed in The Disappearance. (Except kyon perhaps; poor guy, his life is pushed around by the women around him)

2011-05-20, 18:38	Link #693
-Sho- ~Omedetô~ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !	Finally watched it , i won't argue much about it , just , Awesome Movie , all in this movie , nuff's said. Waiting for the next.

2011-05-25, 01:39	Link #694
CrimsonSunshine We live to make tomorrow Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Outer space	Heh, I like Kyon's decision, because I like Haruhi more than anyone. His decision was the right one, but truthfully, having Haruhi around is the only thing I care for. Some may despise Kyon for taking away Yuki's happiness, but Yuki's happiness goes against Haruhi's happiness, if I'm correct. Just a thought, there. So, it's a matter of personal opinion. Though, most everyone seems to speculate further, I just go with the simple thought of, Yuki's happy world or Haruhi's happy world. Which one you like better, probably has something to do with which character you like better. Maybe.

2011-05-25, 10:32	Link #695
rulfo Senior Member Join Date: May 2011	Now I know I'm late and all but I got to read around some of the discussion about Haruhi being useless against nagato. Maybe it might've been speculated already but here it goes. I think Nagato wasn't able to take Haruhi's power completely or render it completely useless. Just surpressed to the point that it may seem non existent. The thing is when Kyon mentioned he is John Smith one would think such sparks might've been a great way to start the flame again. Sure Haruhi may look normal in the movie but hasn't she been that way since the whole series began? Without Itsuki, Nagato, and Mikuru we wouldn't actually know she was extraordinary. Original Nagato's message was just an instruction or a sign. It needed something in order to be achieved which in this case Haruhi getting worked up about Kyon's story. She made everything possible to run things beyond Nagato's control. Well that's about it. So I don't see what some people say that it is a plot hole of some sort. It's just that it hasn't been explained yet but as you can see this case can be quite the explanation we're looking for if I'm correct/lucky.

2011-07-09, 02:19	Link #696
Kayoubi Togame's Sword Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Canada Age: 40	Oh wow, just finished this marathon of a movie and I still want more! It's been so long since I've remembered watching anything haruhi and this really brings it all back. It felt weird how everything revolved around yuki more than haruhi for a change. I'm wondering if this is to accustom the more recent fanbase. But innumerable memorable moments of super moe yuki in this movie. Spoiler for scene: When kyon declined to join the lit club and returned the club form, that was so sad that I would've torn through the silverscreen and hugged yuki as hard as I can had I been at the theatre. It was a story that could've gone off the ledge in complexity but the producers did a fabulous job to explain in more detail certain past plot points when necessary. Time travel always fascinates me, especially when it revolves around mind-twirling space-time discrepancies to sort out.

2011-08-01, 02:24	Link #697
Anon4life Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Caltech	I just saw the movie dubbed at Otakon 2011...I don't think we invented words good enough to describe my love of that movie. But love come close. That had everything, it made me feel all of my emotions, several times. I don't think I can talk about which parts I liked, because honestly, I enjoyed every minute of that nearly 3 hour movie, and everything about it. I especially loved the characters, ALL OF THEM. Reasons for liking the main characters have been probably stated many times by now, so I'll talk about Asakura: Spoiler for spoilers for TTGL and Haruhi: It probably helped a lot that mai waifu's VA was her VA, but I loved the smart and responsible moe Asakura. It was a brilliant character change that went great with her former self. I feel like Kyon would have gotten along great with her if she didn't go yandere/crazy in both worlds. Although I wish I could have seen her conclusion beyond Adult Kyon grabbing the knife away (does she get stabbed and killed?. Seeing her die would've made me sad though, it would be Nia all over again. ASAKURA DESERVES NICE THINGS. It seems like they give Bridget Hoffman a sweet character that has to go evil and/or die in every role she gets, and her character never gets the best end ;_;. but that's a rant for another page. I thought the series was good, but this movie felt perfect to me. The music was great. I loved the animation style -the way they had Kyon wake up every morning, the scene where Asakura was spinning around in front of Yuki (and the music that went with it). Having not had anything spoiled about the movie the climaxes and various twists hit my mind like a Mac Truck. >dat feel when Kyon says he's John Smith. Watching it Otakon was great, there was on the order of 1000 people in the room, and we all laughed, awwed, clapped, cheered, and cried silently together. Sorry for the TL;dr post forum, but I think my head was gonna explode if I didn't share this experience. I hope you all loved the film too

2011-08-01, 16:47	Link #698
s07195 However, Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Hong Kong	Finally. Some posts that reflect the original purpose of this thread. Good job, reviewers. Phew. __________________

2011-09-05, 00:40	Link #700
AbZeroNow North American Haruhiist Join Date: Oct 2010 Age: 43	I received the DVDs for this movie from RightStuf a few days ago, having pre-ordered it around the end of July. I loved the dub and have said elsewhere that I loved Crispin Freeman's performance as Kyon(and I also give high marks for the work that Wendee Lee, Johnny Yong Bosch and Stephanie Sheh brought to it. Michelle Ruff was good in it too). Having read the novel that the movie is based on about four or five times, I already knew the plot of the movie, and so the twists weren't a surprise to me. Having said that, the movie takes what was in the book, and basically hit all the right notes with it. Reading Kyon going crazy because things are not as they should be is one thing, actually seeing it happen and then hearing it as delivered by a top notch voice actor(Freeman and Sugita in the Japanese version) just took it to a different level. The range of emotions that Kyon goes through in this movie was a wonder in itself, and all of it was absolutely convincing. If this were live-action, we'd be talking Academy Award level of acting. The animation as always is just incredible, and Kyoto Animation's attention to detail is certainly present in this movie(for example, when Kyon is looking through his phone's address book and sees that Haruhi's phone number is no longer there, at the top of his address book is the name Sasaki in those Japanese characters). The rooftop scene near the end also shows us a very realistic view of Kobe(something that we can also see in one of the DVD extras). There are quite a few rewatchable scenes in the movie, like Yuki's smile when Kyon is leaving her apartment, the rooftop scene where Kyon says "Yuki." The dub has a significant and well-timed pause before he says "it means snow, right?". I also loved GAR Kyon manhandling Taniguchi and then what he says when he leaves the classroom. Other than a few instances where the pace was a bit too slow, this was a great movie. I give it a 9/10.