Clannad - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[grey_moon]

I for one liked the Fuko appearance, it confirmed that she hasn't passed away, but hopefully will return and it also showed that in his heart Tomoya hasn't forgotten about her. On a less serious point I LOL'ed when she ran off with the star as that was meant to be Kotomi's gift. I thought the mahou shojou entrance with the party hat to be very well done.

The animation is again so well done. The way they draw Kotomi's face is just breath taking. The scene when she broke down and cried I found more touching then lots of other attempts by other animes, actually maybe even some real life actor films.

[HayashiTakara]

I'm gonna go ahead and sound like a rabid okaku and say "KOTOMI X TOMOYA 4EVA!!!!!!! "
lol

[Bankai29]

I wanna so shout that too...but it just like i'm hoping for the impossible...there were alterations of the scenes of Tomoya x Kotomi. It's like they're just friends...

Well, I just "wish" there's a least some Kotomi x Tomoya scenes next ep...err...next year...grrrrrr....waiting for more than a week...dead, i will become.

[Mirrinus]

You know, I was prepared to dislike the Fuuko cameo based on what I had heard, but I actually ended up finding it quite funny, and actually laughed a fair bit at that point. Yet another interesting diverging point from how Kanon was done.

So, uh...just what was up with that butterfly anyway?

[Divini]

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

In a way, I actually think that KyoAni knew what they were doing when they put Fuuko of all people there as the comedic relief. In a way, it's like Fuuko telling us, "Oh sure my real body is in a hospital bed, but otherwise I'm fine, my problems are all settled, and right now I'm having the time of my life! I'm not Tsukimiya-san, so you guys don't have to cry for me!"

So in that sense, KyoAni/KEY probably don't want you to think of CLANNAD as an out-an-out tragedy. Unlike AIR, there's a clear-cut silver lining in Fuuko's cloud.

You know, that's what I thought too. Now that she fulfilled her quest, she's free to go wherever she pleases in her astral form, and she's probably choosing to watch over her friends and help out when she can.

In fact, I'm thinking Fuuko's having loads of fun playing a sort of mahou shoujo and helping out her friends in distress.

Of course, this makes it given that this won't be the last time you'll see her. (I mean if it is the last time, in the end I would feel this whole scene is awkward) What I would really like to see is her comforting/advising someone during a time of great duress.

[panzerfan]

I am also in the opinion that Fuko is not to be grieved about, but rather a life that should be celebrated on. I rather have CLANNAD being more heartwarming than leaving bleeding hearts like how AIR was like. As such, I am actually in the opinion that this astral projection of Fuko will be seen very often... who knows, maybe having the real deal and the projection seen at the same time for that matter.

'Fuko master' summon is proving itself to be far more reliable than summoning a hero to participate in the grail war in comparison.

@Kinny Riddle: AIR TV was on the back of my mind the moment when contrail appears in this episode... the voice actress had done her role magnificently for this breakdown scene

EDIT1: Having seen both ends of the spectrum, to put my thoughts in a generalized form, I am surprised that some figures seem to carry such a presence onscreen that their appearance would always be polarized to this extent, whether it'd be good or bad as to actually impact the overall sentiments throughout the remainder of the performance.

[Reckoner]

All right here we go.

First half of the episode was quite light hearted with signs of Kotomi's pain here and there. Kyou was starting to act like Haruhi in this episode, and well the episode started to become a little bland. Up to this point it was going at a good old 8, but then they just had to bring Fuko along.

Aww, I think KyoAni really wants me to hate that character to no end. It wasn't funny, it was completely random with almost no purpose, and it distracts the attention of the episode from Kotomi whom I am far more interested in. Now lets just pretend for a minute that I actually liked the Fuko arc and felt the sentiments in it. This scene completely kills any sentiment that I would have, if I had it, by bringing her in. Yea, it was very sad that I was in the hospital but look I'm already back in the next arc! What the hell? Ok this brought down the episode to a 7.

This with the second half of the episode we had the bus crash and the scream of Kotomi which could make anyone shiver. The episode started getting far more mysterious and in fact quite interesting. This part of the episode was going great and left the big cliff hanger in the end. I couldn't help but say "c'mon!" at the end. This is one of the few times in Clannad I've actually been very interested in the next episode. The second half of the episode ended up going at a 9.

So overall the episode gets averaged out to an 8, although if it were not for that dreadful character I would've given it a 9.

Kotomi met Tomoya as a little kid and bad things happened, ambiguous dream sequence of both of them in the first half of the episode. Kotomi's parents discovered some other world? With all of this to jumble around, I cannot even begin to understand what exactly is going on. I'm glad that this isn't very easy to figure out for me.

[Divini]

Spoiler for Ep12 Screentime:

Main Char / Supporting Char
Okazaki Tomoya Ichinose Kotomi Fujibayashi Kyou Furukawa Nagisa Fujibayashi Ryou Kotomi's Guardian Ibuki Fuuko Nishina Rie	20:07 13:43 10:59 10:53 9:19 2:53 1:29 1:21

Spoiler for Series Total Screentime:

Main Char / Supporting Char
Okazaki Tomoya Furukawa Nagisa Ibuki Fuuko Ichinose Kotomi Sunohara Youhei Fujibayashi Kyou Fujibayashi Ryou Furukawa Sanae Ibuki Kouko Sakagami Tomoyo Furukawa Akio (Mysterious World) Yoshino Yuuske Botan Kotomi's Guardian Sagara Misae Miyazawa Yukine Mitsui Koumura Toshio Nishina Rie Okazaki Naoyuki	4:01:22 2:33:50 1:24:40 49:52 48:23 44:11 40:19 17:20 16:44 14:26 12:25 6:18 4:58 3:40 3:22 3:21 3:02 2:46 2:31 2:06 1:14

[iamandragon]

All right, just watched this episode! Finally! Exams are really killing us all...

An overall great episode. However the flashbacks when Tomoya entered Kotomi's garden was too bright in the 'past image' that it looked like the future instead of the past...

I noticed the black butterfly flying around in this episode. I didn't play the Kotomi route as it wasn't translated, so I might not know the significance of it. However, in the east, it is believed that dead relatives turn into an insect--usually a moth--to linger their child's house--not a common knowledge, and I'm not sure if the script writers know, so take this only as a reference.

[HayashiTakara]

a black butterfly is an omen of death... just fyi

Its basically hinting that there was a tragedy that occurred dealing with Kotomi... the rest you can figure out on your own.

[IRJustman]

Originally Posted by ChrissieXD

Anime physics can make a dictionary with an upward projectory, and this. :)

<nitpick>

Don't you mean "trajectory"?

</nitpick>

--Ian.

[Ruhisu]

I am wondiring about what happened in the past that Kotomi has such a memories. I was not playing the game bacause I don't have PS2 to this is bothering me. I hope that fire in the flashback was not caused by Kotomi but when memories came back to her she screamed that she will be a good girl so this makes me worry. I hope that everything will be all right.

[HayashiTakara]

Kotomi makes a better match with Tomoya than any of the other girls... appearance wise and the way she acts with him... they look great together. Although Nagisa is gonna win i the end... even if she is incredibly boring, and old.

[Steg]

Man, what a bad episode to leave us hanging on for 3 weeks
Seriously, that Kotomi scene really struck a chord for me. I've never reacted in the same way in anime before. It got me really down, and I won't have next week's episode to pick me back up.

That being said, that scene was brilliantly executed (seeing Kotomi go so out of character was a major part in what made it so shocking). In fact this entire episode was compiled and executed well, I can't wait until the next one.

[X207]

if kotomi doesnt go to study abroad i think she'll make a tough opponent for nagisa. if she does leave to study abroad then they'll just stay as good friends.
imo the fujibayashi sisters asr a mere distraction as far as it concerns the fight for tomoya.

and will this hidden world stuff get explained later on when the series starts in january?

[GreatTeacherKen]

I'm not sure if your question is meant to be rhetorical, but I would think the hidden world stuff will be explained eventually, it'd be pretty bad storytelling if it ends up having no signifcance.

[SSJiffy]

Originally Posted by IRJustman

<nitpick>

Don't you mean "trajectory"?

</nitpick>

--Ian.

Thanks. I had no idea what was meant by the former. Now it's funny.

[amoirsp]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Aww, I think KyoAni really wants me to hate that character to no end. It wasn't funny, it was completely random with almost no purpose, and it distracts the attention of the episode from Kotomi whom I am far more interested in.

The irony with the distaste with Fuuko's appearance is that such randomness with almost no purpose is that doing so is probably the only way to throw her into another character's route.

In other words, the only way to insert Fuuko into another character's route is to do something completely random with almost no purpose. Due to Fuuko's characteristics, it gives Kyoani more screwing around leeway because of the star/starfish and the astral projection sudden appearance (and it is quite clear when Kyoani decides to have fun with the animation during certain sequences, if it wasn't blatantly obvious enough). Incidentally, Fuuko is also personality consistent because of her more or less straightforward format.

This would also prevent the giant character appearance gap (like for Sawatari in Kanon).

Well, random Fuuko inserts do exist in the game, but in this episode instance it was an insert. However, because it is completely random, the settings had the capacity to have Fuuko's presence and scenes.

... looking at the topic review Kinny already directly stated it. However, since it is a random insert in the game, Kyoani probably believed they could run the random insert as soon as Fuuko's route concluded. This is interesting to the extent that some of Kyoani's inserts are indirectly faithful, meaning it's not exact, but the inclusion actually had either a certain plus (episode 10 had one) or a certain accuracy (that would be this random Fuuko insert).

And yes, Kotomi's breakdown is certainly analogous to Kamio's. However, anime-wise compared to it, it's toned down (though probably because it's not a cursed situation.)

In terms of foreshadowing, man, it's almost everywhere, but it's not like nothing is explained. Heck, Fuuko's random inserts are very indirect too. Divini has the idea right, or rather that would be what I would have thought. The contradiction was that getting that toy wasn't exactly great duress though I guess it's small duress.

The episode was interesting enough to watch the next one, and to wonder about later routes.

[pagan poor]

Originally Posted by wontaek

Wow! a fellow Doctor Who fan! I wonder if I am stretching things too much if I see some resemblance of personality between the 4th Doctor and Tomoya

Originally Posted by IRJustman

Which one(s)? Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker (Tom), Davison, Baker (Colin), McCoy, (and I forget the other three, including the Fox special one involving the Eye of Harmony and the turn of the century)? Companion?

Mine's McCoy. Fave companion? The one who's only too happy to hand him some of that Nitro-9 she's not carrying.

--Ian.

Spoiler for Answering off topic stuff.:

Keeping this stuff off the thread topic.

First, 4th Doctor = Tom Baker.

Second, I think Tomoya would be closer to the 9th Doctor, Chris Eccleston, as he seems to help people, but likes to guard his secrets carefully, though you could probably say that about most of the docs. Btw, the Fox one does count.

Fave doc? Hmm... I'll just say "splendid chap.. all of them!"

Fave companion.. probably Romana as she seemed the most useful.

The Time Crash ep with Davison (5) and Tennant (10) was very nice.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Kotomi's parents discovered some other world?

Welcome to the world of quantum mechanics.