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Old 2004-12-14, 13:29   Link #261
eMpTy265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knishman
HOLY SHIT MIGUEL AINT DEAD!

http://www.mahq.net/animation/gundam/seed/gsseep1.htm

MIGUEL ACTUALLY EJECTED AND THEN DETONATED HIS MS!

HES ALIVE, so most likely the piolet of the Orange Zaku is MIGUEL!

Nope, Miguel IS dead. (Unless they really mess with the script.)
(I'll retract this comment if Fraga survived the Dominion's shot.)

Quote from the site you mentioned:


You probably only read this part:

"He attacks again, and Kira takes over the controls when he sees his friends are in danger. He then reprograms the OS at lighting fast speed and dodges Miguel's attacks. He pulls out two 'Armor Schneider' combat knives and stabs the GINN with both of them. Miguel sets the GINN to self detonate and escapes before it explodes. "

*******************
But Miguel gets another GINN, and heads to his doom:

"Kira tosses his 'Midas Messer' beam boomerang at Miguel and cuts the GINN's legs off. He then moves in with his 'Schwert Gewehr' sword and cuts the GINN in half. "

*******************

Too bad Miguel trashed his custom one when he fought with Gai, otherwise I'd be interested to know what would happen.
(Well... he's still probalby die since it's Kira he's fighting... [No, it isn't because Kira's strong, but because he's the main character])


***************************************

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyByNite
Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I think there were some sources that said the introduction of mobile suits by Zaft dominated the mobile armors so much because the EA had been building their MA's with nuclear engines and then when the neutron jammers took that away they suddenly retreated back to less powerful MA's?

Now that they have canceller technology I guess they could build new nuke-powered MA's, or they might just be improving their designs of the non-nuke powered MA's?
Which I suspect is the reason for the producers to add a neutron stampeder. Since nuclear powered MA's would most likely be just as, if not more powerful than battery-powered MS. (Gundams excluded?)

Now the only question is WHEN will they develop technology to cancel the stampeder?


*****************************

Quote:
Originally Posted by vferthjr
this is kinda confusing...anyways...loved the episode...I wonder why Gilbert Dullindal (that's how u spell it right?) still calls Athrun 'Alex'...and anyways, wouldn't everyone know how Athrun looks like? considering that he is still regarded as a hero from the battle of Yakin Due?

And omg...why doesn't Kira talk?! he's like 'yeah...yeah..yeah...uhn hm...' doesn't talk much like in Seed does he?
Athrun's probably not that well known amongst ZAFT personnel, at least in terms of people knowing what he looks like.

Furthermore, he did consider himself to have defected to ORB, so maybe the chairman doesn't want Athrun to get too much attention to himself.


Now, why doesn't Kira talk?

hmm... maybe it's because of Lacus and his Mom. I don't think that Kira would be the type that wears the pants in a household. Besides, it's possible that he's been driven insane by the kids.

(Also, it's probably because the producers don't want him to get involved too much. I mean just by 'yeah... I know... ' etc, Kira's already putting Shinn backstage. Imagine what would happen if he starts 'fighting for good' again.

Last edited by eMpTy265; 2004-12-14 at 13:40.
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Old 2004-12-14, 13:32   Link #262
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by archzai
2.) I think Asuran very well knows that this Lacus is fake, I mean cmon the Haro is obvious, especially since HE made the Haros.
I think Athrun just has completely lost any ability to distinguish real and fake Lacus(es) after what happened back in SEED, when his fiancee goes from a lovely naive princess and idol, to someone who can infiltrate military facilities and steal a Gundam, to someone who can stare at people's head exploding right in front of her without a blink, to the leader of a renegade military group and great strategist and battle tactician, then to a kind and loving motherly figure cooking dinners... I can't blame him, that must have left a pretty huge emotion trauma, and after going through all this, how can you be sure Lacus will not suddenly decide to go to PLANT and change her make-up for some incomprehensible reason?

As for Haros, since she can modify the Haro herself to make it into a high-tech lock-pick device that can unlock confinement doors in the enemy's newest battleship, I guess modifying it to speak english is just a piece of cake

Quote:
Originally Posted by eMpTy265
Too bad Miguel trashed his custom one when he fought with Gai, otherwise I'd be interested to know what would happen.
(Well... he's still probalby die since it's Kira he's fighting... [No, it isn't because Kira's strong, but because he's the main character])
well, if he's fighting Kira with his custom MS, he'll easily trash Kira and Gundam SEED will end at ep1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrivera
Althought I still have a question, why in the episoe Deakka and Issac, din't come out with Buster and Duel. Both of the Gundams survived the battle and if I were them I would keep them as my personal trophie.
it's because Buster and Duel are way obsolette now, and they get Zakus which are leagues better than the first gen GAT-X spec-wise.
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Old 2004-12-14, 13:35   Link #263
ironbomb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroitatsu
its pretty obvios te new lacus is the fake one right. or does anyone think im wrong in this assumption. I personaly feel its a conspiracy from the chairman of Zaft.

I dont know if its a conspiracy with the chairman, but that fake lacus was just obvious. The HARO basicly gave it to us. Since when could it speak english? Also that fake lacus is also a pop-star? They were tryin to kill of the real lacus at the end of seed, how could they make her a pop-star and not try to kill her, something is definitely wrong there. And i never recalled Lacus ever so excited to meet athrun. Athrun should of known that its a fake since kira was with the real lacus at the beach in the previous ep and athrun was the first to fly to plant, unless he would think that during the car-ride between kira&athrun, at that time lacus left to plant. Come on, Athrun has to be smarter than that >.<.
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Old 2004-12-14, 13:39   Link #264
FlyByNite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
I think Athrun just has completely lost any ability to distinguish real and fake Lacus(es) after what happened back in SEED, when his fiancee goes from a lovely naive princess and idol, to someone who can infiltrate military facilities and steal a Gundam, to someone who can stare at people's head exploding right in front of her without a blink, to the leader of a renegade military group and great strategist and battle tactician, then to a kind and loving motherly figure cooking dinners... I can't blame him, that must have left a pretty huge emotion trauma, and after going through all this, how can you be sure Lacus will not suddenly decide to go to PLANT and change her make-up for some incomprehensible reason?
That Lacus, bipolar doesn't really do her justice. She's like Octpolar or something.
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Old 2004-12-14, 13:43   Link #265
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironbomb
I dont know if its a conspiracy with the chairman, but that fake lacus was just obvious. The HARO basicly gave it to us. Since when could it speak english? Also that fake lacus is also a pop-star? They were tryin to kill of the real lacus at the end of seed, how could they make her a pop-star and not try to kill her, something is definitely wrong there. And i never recalled Lacus ever so excited to meet athrun. Athrun should of known that its a fake since kira was with the real lacus at the beach in the previous ep and athrun was the first to fly to plant, unless he would think that during the car-ride between kira&athrun, at that time lacus left to plant. Come on, Athrun has to be smarter than that >.<.
Athrun is smart, and I'd say that's exactly why he has probably given up all logic reasoning regarding matters concerning Lacus

When it comes to Lacus, just don't think
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Old 2004-12-14, 14:48   Link #266
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Hmmm an interesting episode. It looks like Jibril gained the help of Euraisa and North Atlantic Federation by promising them the world. Anyone else notice that this reeks of Gundam Wing's Earth Alliance and OZ. As Jibril said with Plant out of the way who can possibly stop them much less stand against them. It sounds like the plan is to wipe out Plant and then take over the other countries of the world by force. And as far as I can tell only NAF and Eurasia have MS suits in any great quantity so it'd be pretty easy.

Also if you notice Jibril's for such a small nation to to be so much trouble comment regarding Orb it looks like Orb's days as an independant nation are numbered. I'm betting now that the invasion\nuking of plant has failed Jibril has a new target for his wrath. Maybe Plant will get involved in an attempt to save Orb.

Next episode it looks like savior is making an appearance.

Also anyone else thinking we'll be seeing the Astray Gundams making some appearences soon. (God Bandai/Sunrise needs to hurry up and make Astray into an anime).
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Old 2004-12-14, 15:31   Link #267
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Quote:
And like I mentioned before, seems like EA's back to making (unique) mobile armors now. Though they do seem to be significantly more powerful than before and are more powerful than Gundams.
Everything out classes Gundams nowadays =/ But this show is called Gundam Seed Destiny, damnit >_< I demand new prototype Gundams first Maybe they can make Gundams with a Mobile Armor mode (Like Saviour > Plane) or something =)
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Old 2004-12-14, 15:44   Link #268
dreamless
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well, Mobile Armors always outclass Gundams... until SEED that is...
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Old 2004-12-14, 17:17   Link #269
sgogeta4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
I think Athrun just has completely lost any ability to distinguish real and fake Lacus(es) after what happened back in SEED, when his fiancee goes from a lovely naive princess and idol, to someone who can infiltrate military facilities and steal a Gundam, to someone who can stare at people's head exploding right in front of her without a blink, to the leader of a renegade military group and great strategist and battle tactician, then to a kind and loving motherly figure cooking dinners... I can't blame him, that must have left a pretty huge emotion trauma, and after going through all this, how can you be sure Lacus will not suddenly decide to go to PLANT and change her make-up for some incomprehensible reason?

As for Haros, since she can modify the Haro herself to make it into a high-tech lock-pick device that can unlock confinement doors in the enemy's newest battleship, I guess modifying it to speak english is just a piece of cake


well, if he's fighting Kira with his custom MS, he'll easily trash Kira and Gundam SEED will end at ep1


it's because Buster and Duel are way obsolette now, and they get Zakus which are leagues better than the first gen GAT-X spec-wise.
That's BS, Buster and Duel might be old but they have PHASE SHIFT, I mean look at Destiny first few eps with Athrun fighting in a Zaku. He was wrecked by that single blast from the new Gundam (his shield was pretty useless). Phase shift technology is still not standard issue, so it still is better than the standard MS. Plus they can always modify their Gundam, ie Duel had an upgraded suit in the end of SEED until it was destroyed by the guy with the scythe, but that can be remade. Freedom Gundam is still the best though, it's the only one with a nuclear reactor (ie. unlimited power), cuz even Shin's MS runs outta power, so his phase shift is gone and his suit is just as good as any normal MS. Though I don't think we'll see Freedom until something major happens to Orb, b/c he knew the war was coming and did not want to pick a side (EA vs ZAFT), but if Orb were attacked, he would bring out the gundam to defend his home country.

Oh and about the mobile armors vs MS vs gundams, I think the most important factor is the pilot, I mean if Athrun is a good pilot, he can kick ass in a gundam or a MS. Same with Neo, he's just a good pilot. Doubt its Mwu since if his helmet is floating in space... how the f*** can he breathe without it? Like even if he did miraculously survive the blast (even though we see the cockpit start to disintegrate)... I doubt he's alive.
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Old 2004-12-14, 17:33   Link #270
Raxtenko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgogeta4
That's BS, Buster and Duel might be old but they have PHASE SHIFT, I mean look at Destiny first few eps with Athrun fighting in a Zaku. He was wrecked by that single blast from the new Gundam (his shield was pretty useless). Phase shift technology is still not standard issue, so it still is better than the standard MS. Plus they can always modify their Gundam, ie Duel had an upgraded suit in the end of SEED until it was destroyed by the guy with the scythe, but that can be remade. Freedom Gundam is still the best though, it's the only one with a nuclear reactor (ie. unlimited power), cuz even Shin's MS runs outta power, so his phase shift is gone and his suit is just as good as any normal MS. Though I don't think we'll see Freedom until something major happens to Orb, b/c he knew the war was coming and did not want to pick a side (EA vs ZAFT), but if Orb were attacked, he would bring out the gundam to defend his home country.
No that's BS, Phase Shift armour is only useful against ballistic weapons, ie. bullets and missiles. Beam weapons, which by the way are standard on all MS in Destiny, cut through it like butter.

Phase Shift is the only feature that the old 1st gen. Gundams have over the Zakus, and as I've said Phase Shift has been rendered obsolete.
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Old 2004-12-14, 17:35   Link #271
dreamless
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgogeta4
That's BS, Buster and Duel might be old but they have PHASE SHIFT, I mean look at Destiny first few eps with Athrun fighting in a Zaku. He was wrecked by that single blast from the new Gundam (his shield was pretty useless). Phase shift technology is still not standard issue, so it still is better than the standard MS. Plus they can always modify their Gundam, ie Duel had an upgraded suit in the end of SEED until it was destroyed by the guy with the scythe, but that can be remade. Freedom Gundam is still the best though, it's the only one with a nuclear reactor (ie. unlimited power), cuz even Shin's MS runs outta power, so his phase shift is gone and his suit is just as good as any normal MS. Though I don't think we'll see Freedom until something major happens to Orb, b/c he knew the war was coming and did not want to pick a side (EA vs ZAFT), but if Orb were attacked, he would bring out the gundam to defend his home country.

Oh and about the mobile armors vs MS vs gundams, I think the most important factor is the pilot, I mean if Athrun is a good pilot, he can kick ass in a gundam or a MS. Same with Neo, he's just a good pilot. Doubt its Mwu since if his helmet is floating in space... how the f*** can he breathe without it? Like even if he did miraculously survive the blast (even though we see the cockpit start to disintegrate)... I doubt he's alive.
Phase Shift armor has zero effect against beam weapons, so PS armor is not much more than a flashy expensive ornament when all those suits are using beam weapons. Even if Athrun is piloting a MS with PS armor, he'll still get wrecked from that beam shot.

And MS specs are not directly related to power source type or those fancy gadgets like PS armor and big guns and things. It's about speed, manuverability, normal armor plating, etc. etc. You can easily hook up a big gun to your MS, but you can't improve its manuverability easily without some major redesign. Remember The O? Remember Epyon? Do they have flashy big guns or fancy gadgets? The O only has some standard issue beam rifle and beam saber, while Epyon has no ranged weapon, but they are practically invincible MS because of high speed and manuverability.

Spec-wise Zakus can dance circles around Buster and Duel, Phase Shift and big flashy guns don't mean anything if the enemy can easily get to your back and shoot you with a standard beam rifle. Remember the Mwu vs. Krueze, Launcher Strike vs. GuAIZ fight? GuAIZ is so fast and agile that Launch Strike can't keep up with it, and PS armor is easily torn apart by the beam claws.

And it's the official word that Zakus are far superior than first-gen GAT-X spec-wise, and I guess lacking PS armor isn't that much of a concern when everyone has a beam rifle. So if you think otherwise, complain to Sunrise
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Old 2004-12-14, 17:59   Link #272
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PS armor is useful.If missiles can't destroy your MS,you're in a better position than someone who don't have PS armor.
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Old 2004-12-14, 18:18   Link #273
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PS armor is very useful in limiting the number of beam rifle shots you can fire; it's definitely a must for veterans as it adds a whole new level of challenge. Of course, using a nuclear reactor easily solves this problem, but ZAFT probably didn't like how two of their super expensive uber Gundams were easily taken to another faction. And fortunately for ZAFT, their three new Gundams aren't nuclear-powered, either.
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Old 2004-12-14, 20:01   Link #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
PS armor is very useful in limiting the number of beam rifle shots you can fire; it's definitely a must for veterans as it adds a whole new level of challenge.


Quote of the day ^^.

Really, the only reason the new units even have PS armor is because they're brand stinking new and they want to eliminate the chance of them being shot to bits by ballistic weapons which are still fairly common as backup weapons (Cannon packs and missiles, rail guns and so on are used more than they did in UC after the OYW). Also, there has to be something that sets them apart in the real world as TEH GUNDAMS OMFG!11

It would take a very, very brave pilot to launch in Buster or Duel in SEED Destiny, being slow and heavy and underpowered and all :P
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Old 2004-12-14, 20:08   Link #275
Sandrock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eMpTy265
Which I suspect is the reason for the producers to add a neutron stampeder. Since nuclear powered MA's would most likely be just as, if not more powerful than battery-powered MS. (Gundams excluded?)

Now the only question is WHEN will they develop technology to cancel the stampeder?
I don't think the Stampeder is -that- powerful a weapon, in that sense. It's definitely not a mini-GENESIS by any standard (different technology, different operation, different purpose). I doubt it's as well armoured as GENESIS was too.

PLANT seemed to acknowledge this - they commented that now that the EA knows about the Stampeder, its effectiveness has been diminished. That leads me to presume that it's vulnerable - maybe all they need is to knock out the bulky (and fragile-looking) quantum Fresnel to nullify the Stampeder (if it works like I assume) - it won't take much to send in the conventional fleet with Windams to take on the ships with the Stampeder/Fresnel, then bring in the big nukes after those have been taken out.

It's a possibility.
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Old 2004-12-14, 20:13   Link #276
srb
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High-powered mobile armors will almost always dominate mobile suits, especially if they are built for high-speed combat or with the specific job to kill off MS. Look at the RX-78GP-03 Dendrobium Orchis or AMX-002 Neue Ziel in Gundam 0083. Slightly ( )retconned but those two are fleet killers and can easily take care of scores of mobile suits, and then we haven't even brought in the heavy guns with the NZ-333 Alpha Azieru... Mmm, funnels. And of course, in SEED we have METEOR which function just like the Orchis; a mobile-armor add on to mobile suits.

I like mobile armors.
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Old 2004-12-14, 20:41   Link #277
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but gundams/mobile suits will always look better than mobile armors because its the main thing and it is in the show's title.. unless they suddenly decides to make a brand new show called "Mobile Armor: (insert cool name here)".. that i would like to see..
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Old 2004-12-14, 20:43   Link #278
BigFire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srb


Quote of the day ^^.

Really, the only reason the new units even have PS armor is because they're brand stinking new and they want to eliminate the chance of them being shot to bits by ballistic weapons which are still fairly common as backup weapons (Cannon packs and missiles, rail guns and so on are used more than they did in UC after the OYW). Also, there has to be something that sets them apart in the real world as TEH GUNDAMS OMFG!11

It would take a very, very brave pilot to launch in Buster or Duel in SEED Destiny, being slow and heavy and underpowered and all :P
Although there is also Transphase Armor that supercede PS armor. TS Armor protectes attack of both physical as well as energy weapon. The problem is the power requirement.
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Old 2004-12-14, 20:48   Link #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandrock
I don't think the Stampeder is -that- powerful a weapon, in that sense. It's definitely not a mini-GENESIS by any standard (different technology, different operation, different purpose). I doubt it's as well armoured as GENESIS was too.

PLANT seemed to acknowledge this - they commented that now that the EA knows about the Stampeder, its effectiveness has been diminished. That leads me to presume that it's vulnerable - maybe all they need is to knock out the bulky (and fragile-looking) quantum Fresnel to nullify the Stampeder (if it works like I assume) - it won't take much to send in the conventional fleet with Windams to take on the ships with the Stampeder/Fresnel, then bring in the big nukes after those have been taken out.

It's a possibility.
Stampeder appears to be an inverse of N-Jammer. N-Jammer prohibits proper neutron chain reaction, which stops nuclear reaction. The Stampeder as the name implied causes uncontrollable nuclear chain reaction. It's a perfect defensive weapon against nuclear weapon. However, each instance of Stampeder appears to be a one use only, and will have to be replace. Furthermore, once Blue Cosmos figure out what's happenning, they'll not be attacking PLANT from strictly one direction.
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Old 2004-12-14, 21:15   Link #280
Sandrock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFire
Stampeder appears to be an inverse of N-Jammer. N-Jammer prohibits proper neutron chain reaction, which stops nuclear reaction. The Stampeder as the name implied causes uncontrollable nuclear chain reaction. It's a perfect defensive weapon against nuclear weapon. However, each instance of Stampeder appears to be a one use only, and will have to be replace. Furthermore, once Blue Cosmos figure out what's happenning, they'll not be attacking PLANT from strictly one direction.
That's right. I agree that the Neutron Stampeder appears to be some sort of particle accelerator, but what I submit is that the quantum Fresnel (the large bulky attachment that looks like a set of blinds at the front of the Nazca-class) is what allows the Stampeder the wide angle of effect we saw in this episode. That also seems to be the weak point of the system - i.e. the line "The Stampeder has vaporised the Quantum Fresnel. The breaker has activated." with the scene of the attachment completely burned out.

That would probably suggest it's not the Stampeder that can only be fired once, but the quantum Fresnel that can only survive one emission from the Stampeder. Perhaps the Stampeder can be fired multiple times, but would be confined to a narrow beam with limited purpose?
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