AnimeSuki Forums

N-Bomb · 2004-12-06, 15:58

First up - Gundam.

When? After G Gundam.
Why? Since then, it's been nothing but more minor side stories, and new rehashes of the same old plot originated in Mobile Suit Gundam. While Wing, X, and Turn A managed to stand out on their own somewhat, they still follow the same basica premise of the original. Boy finds robot. Boy gets involved in wide-scale conflict, everyone dies, the end.

Since the series is pretty much wrung dry of any kind of possible originality, there's really no point to continuing it, aside from milking the cash cow. And with the offscreen presence of Gundam merchandise, one could argue that new shows aren't even needed to market these things anymore.

Can anyone else name any other sequel-heavy, quality-light series that started out with a bang are are continuing with a whimper? Be sure to explain your reasons - this is 20% of your term marks.

<.<

Ending · 2004-12-06, 16:17

I can name at least two very easily, although I'm not sure how old these series are.

Oh! My Goddess!
Recycles all the same stuff seen previously in the serie, the relationships are in a freezer, and otherwise it seems they are just milking the cow without even intending to finish it off like with real classics. Past its prime, definitely.

Inuyasha
Same as above: milking the cow, no end in the horizon, characters lamed up, etc. Good as dead, IMO, and I have to wonder why it is still so popular.

Cornel · 2004-12-06, 20:49

Dragonball GT. Overall there may be some enjoyment to find in this show, but if it were a series on its own it wouldn't have been so good.
Pokemon and all the other kiddie animes, which may have started out with something have nothing much new to offer.

arias · 2004-12-06, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wirhe

Oh! My Goddess!
Recycles all the same stuff seen previously in the serie, the relationships are in a freezer, and otherwise it seems they are just milking the cow without even intending to finish it off like with real classics. Past its prime, definitely.

Damn right. Belldandy was a continually evolving archetype of female perfection. At first she had humanly emotions.. jealousy, insecurity.. etc. In recent manga volumes she's become truly untouchable o_o; And at times, what I think, very much not human (in the expression of emotions). I don't know, I feel it's become extremely stale. I still read it though, in all honesty, because of the Belldandy-Keiichi relationship. I'm hoping something happens, but noooooo. They keep falling back to square one.

Fighter Volk · 2004-12-06, 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cornel

Dragonball GT. Overall there may be some enjoyment to find in this show, but if it were a series on its own it wouldn't have been so good.
Pokemon and all the other kiddie animes, which may have started out with something have nothing much new to offer.

Aye. Personally, I really enjoyed the original Dragonball (DBZ turned bad very fast) and the first 60-70 episodes of Pokemon. After that, both series really went to waste. I can still enjoy watching older episodes of Pokemon and Dragonball, but whenever I chance upon a new one, I am dissapointed and discouraged.

Pokemon should have ended when Satoshi lost the Pokemon League. 'Twould have been a perfect ending, but no, money is more important than a good story to the makers. Understandable, I guess, but very disappointing.

mememe · 2004-12-07, 01:24

salior moon

kj1980 · 2004-12-07, 02:09

I'm still awaiting for the "next big thing" which I haven't seen since Evangelion.

Lord Raiden · 2004-12-07, 08:54

Well then, that spawns the next big question. If the "perfect" anime were to come out, what type would it need to be, what would it need to have in it, what kind of story, plot, charecters, villans, etc? I've fiddled a lot with various ideas, but I think our society has reached a point where just about every plot angle has been done, tried, and rehashed at least twenty times. So new and original stuff is getting harder to create and come by.

Inuzuka · 2004-12-07, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Raiden

I've fiddled a lot with various ideas, but I think our society has reached a point where just about every plot angle has been done, tried, and rehashed at least twenty times. So new and original stuff is getting harder to create and come by.

There's a beauty in that situation and that's that only better stuff is only going to be accepted by the population, thus raising the public's expectations. This would result in the bar being raised in the creative industry, the public would once again be exposed to new ideas, eventually the ideas would be milked for all they're worth and the public, once again, would demand for newer more intelligent stuff, and the cycle goes on, driving the creative industry to move towards newer grounds and the public becoming more 'intelligent', for lack of better phrase.

wao · 2004-12-07, 09:45

Rurouni Kenshin.

While this is one of my personal favourites and a memory of my childhood and the first anime besides Akazukin Chacha and Pokemon which I have watched, after the Shishio arc all that POS crap was *NOT* needed. Absolute rubbish. It detracted from the story, was BEYOND ridiculous (the rest of the series wasn't THAT ridiculous compared to post-Shishio, and the OVAs were quite realistic) and was just... STUPID! I mean... wtf? Knights from Germany? Christian evangelists? Kenshin goes "blind"? Gimme a break...

No wonder ratings fell so low they had to stop the series! And then when they finally *DO* animate Seisouhen they compress it and

Spoiler:

Sorry, okay that was a bit irrelavent, but still -- I don't think the mangaka was going to do any more of KEnshin after the manga ended, so why did they have to create a story beyond the end of the manga? Why did they have to have that post-Shishio nonsense? It was really not needed...

I wonder if anyone in Japan ever thinks insanely-long-running classics like Chibi Maruko-chan and Doraemon are "past their prime".

N-Bomb · 2004-12-07, 11:12

Let me add Transformers to the list.

It's kind of been on autopilot since Beast Wars ended and they decided to go back and re-do the same things they'd been doing before the Beast series came around.

Hell, I don't even watch the shows anymore because I thought the past two were quite horrid... Maybe it's the nostalgia, but they just seem to have gotten really genericly japanese now that they're pretty much dubbeed japanese productions.

That said, I'm eagerly awaiting that live action movie that's coming out... We'll see if it turns out to be a boom or a bust

Pepperidge · 2004-12-07, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kj1980

I'm still awaiting for the "next big thing" which I haven't seen since Evangelion.

I guess FMA doesn't count since it was based on an already popular manga?

**monir** · 2004-12-07, 11:44

How about Tenchi?

Archuka · 2004-12-07, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pepperidge

I guess FMA doesn't count since it was based on an already popular manga?

Oh FMA was nothing special anyway.

I guess the current "big thing" would be Naruto, but I don't really understand why people think it's so great.

I think anything that runs for longer than one season is too long. All my favorites are 13-14 episodes and all series I can call "good" are 26 episodes or less. I admit Naruto is decent despite its incredible lenght, but if they removed a few annoying details and all the filler and unnecessary material, it would be so much better.

Fighter Volk · 2004-12-07, 16:41

It seemed to me for a while that FMA would be the next big thing, but it's probably (unfortunately) just a passing phase, or one of those that people will recommend but not give acclaimed praises to, like, say, RahXephom.

I still enjoyed the hell out of it though

FireBorn · 2004-12-07, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archuka

Oh FMA was nothing special anyway.

I guess the current "big thing" would be Naruto, but I don't really understand why people think it's so great.

I think anything that runs for longer than one season is too long. All my favorites are 13-14 episodes and all series I can call "good" are 26 episodes or less. I admit Naruto is decent despite its incredible lenght, but if they removed a few annoying details and all the filler and unnecessary material, it would be so much better.

I'll second that.

Cornel · 2004-12-07, 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Raiden

Well then, that spawns the next big question. If the "perfect" anime were to come out, what type would it need to be, what would it need to have in it, what kind of story, plot, charecters, villans, etc? I've fiddled a lot with various ideas, but I think our society has reached a point where just about every plot angle has been done, tried, and rehashed at least twenty times. So new and original stuff is getting harder to create and come by.

I guess that not too many animes actually appeal to males as well as females. I don't think that violence has to be toned down on a perfect anime, but there also has to be a reason for it even before it happens. There is also a problem with how seriously the production team will treat the series. Obviously, the cash cow attitude will never work.
Realistically, I think that there can only be perfect depictions of the genres of anime. There would be the perfect action anime, giant robot... so on and so on. I think that Gantz, at least for me, could has a high potential, but it also shows how superior that animes released on DVD can be to their television aired counterparts. The theme of course is a bit too adult for many to stomach, but there is a difference between perfection and accessibility.

Lina Inverse · 2004-12-07, 19:56

Now that's easy, DragOn Ball. The very first series was already that bad...

All the consecutive parts (Z, GT, whatever) were absolutely devoid of any sense, plot etc., just brainless battles that dra on forever.
They were (and are) nothing but extreme-kiddie-milking.

Cornel · 2004-12-07, 20:23

I think that Dragonballz was important as it was unique, and well unusual, for the power that was dealt with at the time. The reason to continue it may have been business as usual, but it may be the only anime to go that far in terms of destructive power. I don't think that any other anime would even go that far. So some aspects of DBZ did have some innovation.

sapphire9294 · 2004-12-07, 21:19

I thought it was like the Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME situation.
every two years or so they release a better version of basically the same thing. I enjoyed watching Gundam Seed anyway. Though only extreme fans or something would buy every merchandise out there.

anyway does Ranma 1/2 count? I think it has over 100 episodes. It was funny at the start but it ended up repeating itself over and over again after a while. (not to mention making happosai the main character and his perverted adventures the main story...)

2004-12-06, 15:58	Link #1
N-Bomb King of Braves Fansubber Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Age: 45	Anime series that have jumped the shark/are past their prime. First up - Gundam. When? After G Gundam. Why? Since then, it's been nothing but more minor side stories, and new rehashes of the same old plot originated in Mobile Suit Gundam. While Wing, X, and Turn A managed to stand out on their own somewhat, they still follow the same basica premise of the original. Boy finds robot. Boy gets involved in wide-scale conflict, everyone dies, the end. Since the series is pretty much wrung dry of any kind of possible originality, there's really no point to continuing it, aside from milking the cash cow. And with the offscreen presence of Gundam merchandise, one could argue that new shows aren't even needed to market these things anymore. Can anyone else name any other sequel-heavy, quality-light series that started out with a bang are are continuing with a whimper? Be sure to explain your reasons - this is 20% of your term marks. <.<

2004-12-07, 09:45	Link #10
wao OK. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Fields of High Attus Age: 34	Rurouni Kenshin. While this is one of my personal favourites and a memory of my childhood and the first anime besides Akazukin Chacha and Pokemon which I have watched, after the Shishio arc all that POS crap was NOT needed. Absolute rubbish. It detracted from the story, was BEYOND ridiculous (the rest of the series wasn't THAT ridiculous compared to post-Shishio, and the OVAs were quite realistic) and was just... STUPID! I mean... wtf? Knights from Germany? Christian evangelists? Kenshin goes "blind"? Gimme a break... No wonder ratings fell so low they had to stop the series! And then when they finally DO animate Seisouhen they compress it and Spoiler: KILL KENSHIN OFF? Sorry, okay that was a bit irrelavent, but still -- I don't think the mangaka was going to do any more of KEnshin after the manga ended, so why did they have to create a story beyond the end of the manga? Why did they have to have that post-Shishio nonsense? It was really not needed... I wonder if anyone in Japan ever thinks insanely-long-running classics like Chibi Maruko-chan and Doraemon are "past their prime". __________________ Thanks for the fish

2004-12-06, 16:17	Link #2
Ending Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	I can name at least two very easily, although I'm not sure how old these series are. Oh! My Goddess! Recycles all the same stuff seen previously in the serie, the relationships are in a freezer, and otherwise it seems they are just milking the cow without even intending to finish it off like with real classics. Past its prime, definitely. Inuyasha Same as above: milking the cow, no end in the horizon, characters lamed up, etc. Good as dead, IMO, and I have to wonder why it is still so popular.

2004-12-06, 20:49	Link #3
Cornel Member Join Date: Nov 2004	Dragonball GT. Overall there may be some enjoyment to find in this show, but if it were a series on its own it wouldn't have been so good. Pokemon and all the other kiddie animes, which may have started out with something have nothing much new to offer.

2004-12-07, 01:24	Link #6
mememe hmmm baka Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Australia Age: 37	salior moon

2004-12-07, 02:09	Link #7
kj1980 Gomen asobase desuwa! Join Date: Nov 2003 Age: 43	I'm still awaiting for the "next big thing" which I haven't seen since Evangelion.

2004-12-07, 08:54	Link #8
Lord Raiden Uber Coffee for da win! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Middle of insanity	Well then, that spawns the next big question. If the "perfect" anime were to come out, what type would it need to be, what would it need to have in it, what kind of story, plot, charecters, villans, etc? I've fiddled a lot with various ideas, but I think our society has reached a point where just about every plot angle has been done, tried, and rehashed at least twenty times. So new and original stuff is getting harder to create and come by.

2004-12-07, 11:12	Link #11
N-Bomb King of Braves Fansubber Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Toronto, ON Age: 45	Let me add Transformers to the list. It's kind of been on autopilot since Beast Wars ended and they decided to go back and re-do the same things they'd been doing before the Beast series came around. Hell, I don't even watch the shows anymore because I thought the past two were quite horrid... Maybe it's the nostalgia, but they just seem to have gotten really genericly japanese now that they're pretty much dubbeed japanese productions. That said, I'm eagerly awaiting that live action movie that's coming out... We'll see if it turns out to be a boom or a bust

2004-12-07, 16:41	Link #15
Fighter Volk Thanks sakurabatou @ LJ Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NYC	It seemed to me for a while that FMA would be the next big thing, but it's probably (unfortunately) just a passing phase, or one of those that people will recommend but not give acclaimed praises to, like, say, RahXephom. I still enjoyed the hell out of it though

2004-12-07, 19:56	Link #18
Lina Inverse SL Aki fanclub president Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germany	Now that's easy, DragOn Ball. The very first series was already that bad... All the consecutive parts (Z, GT, whatever) were absolutely devoid of any sense, plot etc., just brainless battles that dra on forever. They were (and are) nothing but extreme-kiddie-milking.

2004-12-07, 20:23	Link #19
Cornel Member Join Date: Nov 2004	I think that Dragonballz was important as it was unique, and well unusual, for the power that was dealt with at the time. The reason to continue it may have been business as usual, but it may be the only anime to go that far in terms of destructive power. I don't think that any other anime would even go that far. So some aspects of DBZ did have some innovation.

2004-12-07, 21:19	Link #20
sapphire9294 Occulus Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: I hate this place why should I be here...	I thought it was like the Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME situation. every two years or so they release a better version of basically the same thing. I enjoyed watching Gundam Seed anyway. Though only extreme fans or something would buy every merchandise out there. anyway does Ranma 1/2 count? I think it has over 100 episodes. It was funny at the start but it ended up repeating itself over and over again after a while. (not to mention making happosai the main character and his perverted adventures the main story...)