Mahou Senki Lyrical Nanoha Force Manga Discussion

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Although seriously, if he ever actually fights both the Hucks and Section Six, that would be pure bullshit. They're not the Titans or some crap, they're the good guys. Maybe if he didn't know everyone in the latter, but he does, so they'd have to jump through so many hoops to do it.

They're the good guys just to us, the readers. Tohma is still debating between following them or the Huckebein. And it's a good possibility that he just gets feed up with the constant confrontation and tries to make peace between the two groups by FORCE. We know he can if he really puts his mind into it, except for Curren, something says me she could be the one to fight at the same level as a full-powered Tohma.

EDIT: Page claimed for late claiming on Signum xDU

[Justin_Brett]

They've kinda been doing that already. You could take him out and not lose that much, at least so far.

They're the good guys just to us, the readers.

And to Touma too, since his adopted sister and family are a part of them and he's never been given any reason to doubt their integrity. Just as there's not many reasons for him to think about joining the Huckebein: they didn't give him any either way.

[Lhklan]

... ... ... Section Six also haven't killed anybody, and have only tried to take the Hucks in.
The Hucks, OTOH... how many did they killed again?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by rxrx

Nah, Signum is a great swordswoman and only lost to Cypher as she have never dealt with a elicpse virus bearer and thus nearly got herself killed. The same trick dosen't work twice you know.

Seems that Signum's main weakness is adaptability, she's to narrow minded to keep up with unkown fightstyles and thus get trashed everytime she fights something new xDU

Originally Posted by rxrx

And speaking about beating characters, I am praying that Touma would not get tossed into the background just beacuse Tsuzuki wants to please the Yuri fanbase. That would be just plain dumb for a story which says that he is suppose to be the main character.

I hope not, he has potential and i liked his role in the G.O.D. game very much. He won't cease to be central tot he plot because he's now the interest of Section Six, The Huckebein Family AND Mr. Vandin. I just wish he could be trated more as a proper main character than as a living McGuffing everyone is trying to obtain xDU

[rxrx]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

And to Touma too, since his adopted sister and family are a part of them and he's never been given any reason to doubt their integrity.

Touma is helping Special Force Six only because they promise him to find a cure to the virus to help all the bearers and provide protection to Lily. All we need is some corrupted ass from the TSAB to do somthing stupid like trying to get their hands on how to create and spread virus to create weapons of mass destruction and Touma will snap.

But since we are talking about Tsuzuki and Nanoha series here, I doubt we will see something as Touma and Lily sacrificed their life in vain and the corrupted ass won with both the Hukebein all dead and the Special Force Six disgraced.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

... ... ... Section Six also haven't killed anybody, and have only tried to take the Hucks in.
The Hucks, OTOH... how many did they killed again?

On screen they failed to kill any named character besides Dego and Marty so far. Their only victims are the nuns and the employees of Vandin Corp. of course it's stated they have no qualms in killing but since Tsuzuki wants them to be heroes now i bet they won't get to kill anyone but villains from now on xDU

Tohma doesn't simphazise with Hucks because they're awesome assasins, he simphazises with them because he feels identified with their situation and want to save them, also because they were nice to him and seems to be a united family which is a very sensible topic for him. So it's understandable he gets angry at the constant threat both of his families pose to each other xDU

[Justin_Brett]

Considering no-one wants to fuck with Hayate anymore, I don't think that will be happening. If it does, that would probably make S6 leave as well, so it'd be redundant.

And I guess the reader's just not supposed to wonder why several years and a couple hours have the same equal importance.

[rxrx]

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Considering no-one wants to fuck with Hayate anymore, I don't think that will be happening. If it does, that would probably make S6 leave as well, making it redundant.

And again, several years, couple hours. Not the same thing.

I dunno. Many people STILL wants to fuck with her as they blame her for the deaths cause by the book anyway. Stupid and idiotic if you ask me as she has nothing to do with all the deaths and in a way even butchered her character as she went on to serve in a commanding role which she did not seem to excel in and complete different from what she have wanted is A's.

Besides, if the Wolken whom slaughered people through ages and the Numbers whom are all dangerous criminals that can be redempted, I don't see why the Hukes cannot. I am just waiting to see their reactions if they are cured though.

[Justin_Brett]

Well despite how her actual commanding prowess is in practice, everybody seems to be intimidated of it now. They're letting her handle this whole operation herself with just a small squad, and nobody seems to be objecting to any of it.

[Lhklan]

@rxrx
Point, but while the Wolks and the Numbers all showed that they only did it for some reasons, and never once showed that they enjoys doing it.
The Hucks killed, yes, but they also showed a form of enjoyment in those acts. That alone put them closer to the Moral Event Horizon than the other 2 cases.

[rxrx]

Originally Posted by Lhklan

@rxrx
Point, but while the Wolks and the Numbers all showed that they only did it for some reasons, and never once showed that they enjoys doing it.
The Hucks killed, yes, but they also showed a form of enjoyment in those acts. That alone put them closer to the Moral Event Horizon than the other 2 cases.

Agreed, but also have to put it that the enjoyment showed by the Hukes is a form of adapting mechanism to accept that they have to kill to survive and not go mad from the guilt. I'm not saying that they are good or whatever, but different circumstances lead to different action. Not everyone will be like Touma who tries to kill himself to not harm others.

By the way, has it been said that the Hukes only kill those on their job list or they just kill indiscriminately?

[Akiyoshi]

I agree on the Huckebeins being redeemable but that's a very delicate thing to handle for a writer because they have done evil deeds in a much more coucnsious, cruel and uninterested way than any of the previous villains. Even their motivation of fighting for survival seems like judging by their attitude at things. They can be redeemed indeed but Tsuzuki will need skill to do it in a believable way or it will look like an asspull to turn them into good guys.

The Huckebein need to experiment the consequence of their action, being slammed in the face with the truth so they can realize the evil they're doing for survival and finally get motivation to seek redemption and change by themselves. It's useless to keep trying telling them to change or changing their ways if they're convinced they're doing the right thing, they need to fall hard from their comfortable postion to see things beyond their selfish goals.

Originally Posted by Justin_Brett

Well despite how her actual commanding prowess is in practice, everybody seems to be intimidated of it now. They're letting her handle this whole operation herself with just a small squad, and nobody seems to be objecting to any of it.

Actually, Hayate is now struggling to keep the control of this mission as people started throwing crap at her for the shameful failure Section Six suffered at trying to capture the Huckebein.

[rxrx]

Let them know that you can survive without killing even though you bear the virus. Or better yet, cure it. That would force them to see some sense if possible. Or better yet, don't redeem them. Kill them all off and see them freak out as they die with their powers being useless and suffer retribution. Doubt that would happen as this is Tsuzuki thpugh.

Oh and Hayate? I dunno, maybe it is a ploy to set her up in chasing after the Huke and thus can fuck with her when she screws up like now.

[Lhklan]

If they want to adapt, and they really don't want to deal with the guilt, they could have do it in a emotionless way. That's better than killing someone, all while laughing madly.
And agree with Aki. Every actions have consequences, but so far the Hucks haven't seen them.

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by rxrx

By the way, has it been said that the Hukes only kill those on their job list or they just kill indiscriminately?

It's not specified but they seem to imply they search to kill as less unrelated people as possible. Not out of goodness but because it's bad for the bussines and their plans.

Still that doesn't justify Veyron obliterating a Church by killing all of the nuns as also Cypha slaughtering an entire village inhabited by peacefull pioneers. Maybe there was a reason for both cases but so far it only served to state that Veyron was in a situation where he has to kill and that Cypha is a douche (she smugglingly admited that she didn't even used her sword, she killed every single one of them with her dagger-like reactor) xDU.

Originally Posted by rxrx

Let them know that you can survive without killing even though you bear the virus. Or better yet, cure it. That would force them to see some sense if possible. Or better yet, don't redeem them. Kill them all off and see them freak out as they die with their powers being useless and suffer retribution. Doubt that would happen as this is Tsuzuki thpugh.

Point is they already know there are other more peacefull ways to survive with the virus without being a danger yet they choosed to stay a family of assasins. It's part of what makes them more depicable than previous villains. The Wolkenritter were created with the purpouse of obeying every single whim of their masters and the Numbers were manipulated by their father and Precia was just batshit insane due to her despair.

The Huckebein is councsious of their actions, Curren is a calm, collected and very intelligent leader with a clearly planned agenda. Sure they're a family and live a hellish condition and are fighting corruption in a way, but they don't sell cookies. They're dangerous and murderous criminals xDU

Originally Posted by rxrx

Oh and Hayate? I dunno, maybe it is a ploy to set her up in chasing after the Huke and thus can fuck with her when she screws up like now.

This actually sounds plausible. Maybe people who still harbor grudges at her within the TSAB collaborated to set her up for this mission knowing perfectly her team is unprepared and will do a terrible job at fighting the Huckebein and thus they'll have the chance to discredit Hayate in the eyes of the public and the Higher-ups.

[rxrx]

Veyron's slaugher seemed a little too vague. That scene just plays out as if he is taunting Touma to spite him to fight only.

Also, staying as a family of assassins is not that hard to understand in a way. Discrimination is serious business and I know people that nearly end their own life due to this issue. By bearing the virus, the the carrier is already different from others and thus would be rightfully discriminated out of fear and that might have push them to become assassins as they have the psycological soothing of being special instead of being the odd one out. Who knows?

Thus so far the best would be crush their ego and pride. That might do some good to their thinking.

[LostSome]

I am not going into the Hulk : good or not again.

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

This actually sounds plausible. Maybe people who still harbor grudges at her in the TSAB collaborated to set her up for this mission knowing perfectly her team is unprepared and will do a terrible job at fighting the Huckebein and thus they'll have the chance to discredit Hayate in the eyes of the public and the Higher-ups.

lol at Curren`s job`s being dicrediting Hayate.

Thoma has a rather dangerous way of thinking here.
Logical with his background, but still dangerous, especially with the Eclipse.
If this is what Curren saw in him... Letting him go with the losing team makes sense... A little beating just made his lust for power grow.

[Lhklan]

Originally Posted by rxrx

Veyron's slaugher seemed a little too vague. That scene just plays out as if he is taunting Touma to spite him to fight only.

Also, staying as a family of assassins is not that hard to understand in a way. Discrimination is serious business and I know people that nearly end their own life due to this issue. By bearing the virus, the the carrier is already different from others and thus would be rightfully discriminated out of fear and that might have push them to become assassins as they have the psycological soothing of being special instead of being the odd one out. Who knows?

Thus so far the best would be crush their ego and pride. That might do some good to their thinking.

Vague? Dude, if a whole church with dead bodies around, blood everywhere is vague then I don't know what detailed it.

Also, staying as a family is understandable. Being assassins? Nope.jpg. If anyting, it makes the other people fear them even more.

Crushing their ego and pride might just make them become even more power hungry, and use their virus in a different way.

[rxrx]

Well look at it this way. Touma's thinking is being shaped up just like Nanoha's. If the opposition is not willing to listen to reason, crush them and make them listen. Remember the episode with Fate, Vita and Vivio?

The only thing different is that Touma's powers are deadly and can kill while Nanoha can switch to stun mode which well, stuns Fate, Vita and Vivio despite being blast by her mighty pink beam. When Cypher tells him that things would not always go his way, he simply replies that he will be powerful enough to make sure it does. The Special Force 6 is definite a good teacher on this topic don't you think?

[Akiyoshi]

Originally Posted by rxrx

Thus so far the best would be crush their ego and pride. That might do some good to their thinking.

Agreed, they couldn't be redeemed without a good spanking first xDU

Originally Posted by LostSome

lol at Curren`s job`s being dicrediting Hayate.

She just put the ice on the cake by letting Hayate live rising suspicions among people and demonstrating she's alpha enough to take the luxury of sparing enemy lives at her whim.

Originally Posted by LostSome

Thoma has a rather dangerous way of thinking here.
Logical with his background, but still dangerous, especially with the Eclipse.
If this is what Curren saw in him... Letting him go with the losing team makes sense... A little beating just made his lust for power grow.

If Cypha is to be believed, the Huckebein(or at least her) believes in "despair" as a source of strenght, be by feeding on it's enemies's or to use thier own as motivation. It still bugs me what Cypha was trying to prove, she seemed a bit too enthusiastic into breaking Signum's spirit with her "despair speech" for some reason. Maybe she was projecting herself?