The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll [2009 added ep. 1]

[MainCharacter]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

And thus, 100,000 people trying to go into the past to do what I outlined would all die of mysterious circumstances before they could get transmitted.

You could have planets trying to go back in time when they "didn't" having all it's inhabitants simultaneously dying of unrelated freak accidents.

If we go with this view, it's quite probable that time travel would never be invented. Because it being invented would mean all this crazy shit would happen. But it didn't. Thus any person who could invent time travel will die in a freak accident before they reach adulthood.

I highly doubt all 100,000 people randomly die. It's more logical to think that you die before you ever give them the device. Or you never get to gather 100,000 people. Or you do gather 100,000 people but there is a mess-up with the time device and you all get sent to the North Pole instead of the place you want to be. It doesn't matter how it happens, it just matters that something prevents you for going through with your plan. Not because something is trying to prevent you, but because you just never got to go through with your plan.

Your thing about planets going back in time makes no sense to me. You lost me there. I'm pretty sure that in this theory, and most theories, they can't do that.

Yeah, odds are that time travel is never invented. Or, since we ARE talking about Haruhi here, there is an organization of people in the future that regulate it. They are forbidden to change things because they never happened. Not that Mikuru couldn't randomly kill everyone and kidnap Kyon, it's just that she doesn't. The rules she follows do prevent her from directly changing things and stuff, but only in the same way that the rules we follow prevent us from committing horrible acts of violence on random people in public with no consequences.

The idea behind this theory is that the past has already happened. Anybody who goes back into the past to change something has already changed the past in the present because it was the past for us. Again you could go back to my broken leg example.

That is just the way this theory is, and it seems to be the rules that Haruhi follows. Haruhi is not the only thing to use this. Again, I mention LOST since it was pretty recent. It's one of the more popular theories, I think.

[Bonta Kun]

ASAHINA-SWWWAAAANN!!!

oh how I've missed you!

your as super cute as always!

ep was pretty good it being Haruhi n' all but not great, altho I'm just gonna rate it a high 10 cause of my lovely Asahina-swan!

[Justin Kim]

Just a question, do the original characters look older now for the new season?

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Well, it was dark, and he was already a first-year student at North High. There's no way Kyon, a freshman in her year, could be her John Smith.

Despite this, she does recognize him. Remember her "Have we met before"?

Also, it's pretty easy to forget the face and voice of someone you met in the dark on one random night three years back.

Most people here have read the novels already.

Ah yes. The novels. Sadly, I haven't gotten around to that. Eventually, I suppose.

But yes. Going back to the first season -- suddenly, these episodes look rather differently.

It's a pitty that Asakura is already... still gone.

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Just a question, do the original characters look older now for the new season?

Naw. They look generally the same to me. Either that - or drawing styles differed a bit. After all, a good 3 years have passed.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Justin Kim

Just a question, do the original characters look older now for the new season?

You obviously haven't been paying attention...

This episode is set directly after the baseball episode and before the episode with the cave cricket.

Originally Posted by KyuuA4

It's a pitty that Asakura is already... still gone.

You have no idea why that sentence is so funny.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

See, everything is Kyon's fault. I wouldn't be surprised if he caused the Three Years Ago event too.

I think Kyon's done enough screwing around with the timeline, don't you?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

I think Kyon's done enough screwing around with the timeline, don't you?

You can never screw around with the timeline enough.

[teelotes]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

You can never screw around with the timeline enough.

Time to screw the DVDs.

[DragoonKain3]

All this time travel talk assumes that failure automatically means death. Which isn't the case at all.

You could make up a cult with the purpose of sending 100,000 people to wear rubber chicken suits during the JFK assassination. But you know what? Even if time travel exists, you will fail one way or another. While it CAN be through accidental death, it does not necessarily mean it will be death that will the cause that prevents you from doing so. I mean, the entire notion of setting up a cult to send that much people back in time to do something stupid, is just absolutely ridiculous that you might not even get the cult to start IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Or against the evil alien going back to the 30's. If there are indeed evil aliens, I find it hard to believe you will be able to convince them to do such a stupid act. And if you did succeed, you will only be able to convince a handful of aliens to do so. And geee, I wonder when all these rumours of UFO sightings and talk about Area 51 doing expirements on aliens came from?

Just there exists limitless possibilities to do something in the past that has not been historitcally been shown not to happen, there are also limitless possiblities to stop you from doing so in the first place. Death just happens to be one of them, but it is not by all means limited to just that.

Originally Posted by KyuuA4

For this case -- I am amused that young Haruhi DID not remember Kyon later on when they did met officially for the first time.

Actually, she did remember somewhat. She did ask Kyon whether or not they met somewhere before in the first 'real' episode of Haruhi. It was just she used her 'normal' logic that John Smith and Kyon can't be possibly be the same person (maybe they just look the same, since it was dark back then), so she just shrugged it off.


Now that I think about it though... you know what will be really ironic? If Kyon's true name is really indeed John Smith.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Actually, she did remember somewhat. She did ask Kyon whether or not they met somewhere before in the first 'real' episode of Haruhi. It was just she used her 'normal' logic that John Smith and Kyon can't be possibly be the same person (maybe they just look the same, since it was dark back then), so she just shrugged it off.


Now that I think about it though... you know what will be really ironic? If Kyon's true name is really indeed John Smith.

Yea. I just watched that scene on repeat to FEEL Haruhi's intense observation of Kyon.

And of Kyon's name happened to be John Smith... well... I'll pee in my pants. XD

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Now that I think about it though... you know what will be really ironic? If Kyon's true name is really indeed John Smith.

It's not. Kyon never calls himself by his nickname (he hates it) so the entire cast must have heard his real name at some point.

And according to a later novel, it 'sounds regal' and is 'hard to write/pronounce'.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

I highly doubt all 100,000 people randomly die. It's more logical to think that you die before you ever give them the device. Or you never get to gather 100,000 people. Or you do gather 100,000 people but there is a mess-up with the time device and you all get sent to the North Pole instead of the place you want to be. It doesn't matter how it happens, it just matters that something prevents you for going through with your plan. Not because something is trying to prevent you, but because you just never got to go through with your plan.

It's still the same thing working itself out in a slightly different way. We're still talking about past history happening due to series of statistical implausibilities in the present prevents time travelers from interfering with the past.

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Your thing about planets going back in time makes no sense to me. You lost me there. I'm pretty sure that in this theory, and most theories, they can't do that.

A working time machine sends matter into the past or future. A planet is composed of ALLOT of matter. Ergo, there is no logical reason as to why you couldn't transport a planet into the past. The problem is that transporting a planet into the past is one of those things that would irrefutably and bluntly change history. Therefore any attempt to send a planet into the past when it didn't do that historically will result in the planet not sucessfully going into the past.

Such as the giant time machine you made to transport the planet malfunctioning, causing the planet to explode.

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Yeah, odds are that time travel is never invented.

But if it is, it's quite probable that statistically implausible things will happen to people who attempt time travel in a way that would not allow their actions to accidentally cause history to proceed as it actually did.

Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Or, since we ARE talking about Haruhi here, there is an organization of people in the future that regulate it. They are forbidden to change things because they never happened. Not that Mikuru couldn't randomly kill everyone and kidnap Kyon, it's just that she doesn't. The rules she follows do prevent her from directly changing things and stuff, but only in the same way that the rules we follow prevent us from committing horrible acts of violence on random people in public with no consequences.

The idea behind this theory is that the past has already happened. Anybody who goes back into the past to change something has already changed the past in the present because it was the past for us. Again you could go back to my broken leg example.

That is just the way this theory is, and it seems to be the rules that Haruhi follows. Haruhi is not the only thing to use this. Again, I mention LOST since it was pretty recent. It's one of the more popular theories, I think.

An organization with the ability to regulate time travel with 100% efficiency(and doing it with less would mean the past wouldn't happen, but it did, so they've got to do their jobs perfectly) is just as crazy a phenomenon as people trying to change history exploding.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

And this is why she's so open with him, thus giving Kyon the opportunity to suggest that she make the SOS Brigade...

And this is also why she begins to develop a crush on him, creating the situation at the end of Melancholy, and...

See, everything is Kyon's fault. I wouldn't be surprised if he caused the Three Years Ago event too.



Someday in the Rain as well. The camera zooms over all the things they've collected and done in the past year.

Fitting since the arc directly after that is going to be the WHAM arc.



YAY VOL. 4

Oh gawd, the Kyon theory! Actually I am a believer in the Kyon theory... So......................... I still wonder if it is possible...

Volume 4 is definitely one of the best volumes in the Haruhi series. Can't wait to see it.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Oh gawd, the Kyon theory! Actually I am a believer in the Kyon theory... So......................... I still wonder if it is possible...

Volume 4 is definitely one of the best volumes in the Haruhi series. Can't wait to see it.

What Kai was saying is more the "Kyon screwed things up for himself theory" than the usual "Kyon theory."

[orangejuicetang]

just out of curiosity, are you arguing about time travel insofar as it applies to this series, or the theory of time travel in general?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

What Kai was saying is more the "Kyon screwed things up for himself theory" than the usual "Kyon theory."

Yes, that.

My theory is that Haruhi's powers are a closed time loop: That somehow at the end of the series Kyon winds up getting them, and he travels back in time to Three Years Ago and gives the powers to her, which would explain the hand-reaching-out scene in Bouken Desho Desho.

And then she changes the universe.

But that's just a crack theory.

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

just out of curiosity, are you arguing about time travel insofar as it applies to this series, or the theory of time travel in general?

I DONT KNOW

[Game8910]

This is why I was waiting for this season....the last season of haruhi could've NEVER sparked such awesome talk about time travel and paradoxes

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Yes, that.

My theory is that Haruhi's powers are a closed time loop: That somehow at the end of the series Kyon winds up getting them, and he travels back in time to Three Years Ago and gives the powers to her, which would explain the hand-reaching-out scene in Bouken Desho Desho.

And then she changes the universe.

But that's just a crack theory.

More CRACKish theory: See above, but Kyon goes back even further and ends up her father, rendering everything between them highly disturbing.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Game8910

This is why I was waiting for this season....the last season of haruhi could've NEVER sparked such awesome talk about time travel and paradoxes

Agreed. Instead, discussion focused more on Who Haruhi really is... Kyon's role... and the mystery behind the others of the Brigade.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

More CRACKish theory: See above, but Kyon goes back even further and ends up her father, rendering everything between them highly disturbing.

That's one of those OOPS moments.