AnimeSuki Forums

Kyuu · 2012-12-22, 00:56

Remember.

Even Goku had to go through plenty of extensive training -- until he can improve his skills and power. Yet, he had all the natural talent in the world (or beyond it).

kenjiharima · 2012-12-22, 01:03

Some talents are God given like the talent like you can hold high voltage current and not suffer an electric shock.

But nothing replaces hardwork on a certain thing you want to achieve or have.

barcode120x · 2012-12-22, 01:36

Definitely hard work. In this day and age, hard work is needed to find a steady job with or without education and just to get through life in general. I kind of see talent as a result of hard work, but there people that are just born with certain talents such as jumping high enough to dunk a basketball; however, it takes hard work to push that talent even further.

synaesthetic · 2012-12-22, 04:49

Neither.

The only thing that gets you ahead in the modern world is very good luck and nepotism. Maybe kissing some ass real good thrown in there, too.

Triple_R · 2012-12-22, 05:13

If you're talking about a "normal job" (doctor, nurse, teacher, office work, manager, etc...) then I think that hard work is more important.

If you're talking about anything rooted in athletics or artistry (pro sports player, painter, novelist, actor, etc...) then I think talent is most important.

The following is very common in the NHL (National Hockey League) - 3rd and 4th liners that work extremely hard every shift and every game, but they'll never be more than 3rd or 4th liners because they just don't have the offensive talent to score at a rate teams expect of 1st and 2nd liners. Then you have many 1st and 2nd liners that float half the time, but will get their 20 or more goals per season because of their huge talent edge.

SaintessHeart · 2012-12-22, 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Neither.

The only thing that gets you ahead in the modern world is very good luck and nepotism. Maybe kissing some ass real good thrown in there, too.

Quoted for truth. Most of the time anyway.

Nightbat® · 2012-12-22, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Neither.

The only thing that gets you ahead in the modern world is very good luck and nepotism. Maybe kissing some ass real good thrown in there, too.

Yup, it's not what you know, but who you know

DonQuigleone · 2012-12-22, 11:33

Hard Work. Hard work can substitute for talent, but talent can't substitute for hard work.

For instance, the ones who get As in school or colleges are not usually the most talented ones, it's the hardest workers. In some ways, Talent can have a deleterious effect, as you get too used to not trying hard, as everything comes to you easily compared to your peers.

RRW · 2012-12-22, 12:04

well depend i guess. but however say "you can do everything if you work hard enough" i just outright lie. if you want to be a good singer but don't have talent to be it. then just forget it.

You need to have talent that related to the goal in order to archive it. if not. then chance are you cannot get that goal.

obviously you still to work hard

DonQuigleone · 2012-12-22, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRW

well depend i guess. but however say "you can do everything if you work hard enough" i just outright lie. if you want to be a good singer but don't have talent to be it. then just forget it.

You need to have talent that related to the goal in order to archive it. if not. then chance are you cannot get that goal.

obviously you still to work hard

You can do pretty much everything if you work hard at it. You just mightn't be that great at it.

A lot of "Talent" is just the fact that the person has done that thing a lot over the course of their life.

Afternoon Tea · 2012-12-22, 14:19

My opinion is anyone can achieve talent through handwork! People just start on different starting points.

Some people are naturally (talent) good at something. But anyone can get to that level of excellence through hard work. Even exceed the person with talent if the one who has talent does not practice or stay in tune. Think of athletes or musicians!

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRW

well depend i guess. but however say "you can do everything if you work hard enough" i just outright lie. if you want to be a good singer but don't have talent to be it. then just forget it.

You need to have talent that related to the goal in order to archive it. if not. then chance are you cannot get that goal.

obviously you still to work hard

I strongly disagree, from a musicians standpoint that is one of biggest excuses. Sure you don't start off being a good singer as some just naturally have, but never ever let genetics stop from our capability. Hard work supports getting better! Gaining experience. Hard work tunes us to sing on key, to sing melody, to help us build stronger voices. Even Professional vocal coachs such as Brett manning would agree. This apply to almost every field (sports,art,music,science, etc). Now if someone does have talent, and works hard then that person is reaching out to be the best he/she can be. Another thing people mistake all the time is that people who are good at singing (Freddie Mercury,Micheal Jackson, Paul McCartney, etc) just have it naturally, but really they worked hard to be at that excellence. Saying someone is soo talented (like they just freely got that skill) could be insulting if the person achieved a certain profession through hard-work. Again just my two cents.

SaintessHeart · 2012-12-22, 15:49

For those who think that hard work is everything, try working 2-3 jobs just to save up for university.

And after you finish university, see where your more "social" friends have gone in life.

Vexx · 2012-12-22, 15:57

I'll use one of my fictional characters as an example - people tend to think she's an inhumanly talented guitarist channeling the music of the gods but she spent literally thousands and thousands of hours practicing and playing. Its all she did, rather like Olympic gymnasts who spend every waking moment in the gym. She was so shy that she just focused on that.

So, you may have a mental attribute or a physical characteristic that lends itself to the sport/talent/craft in question but large after that it is the "10,000 hour rule".

(The science shows it takes about a 1000 hours to get 'good' at something, and about 10,000 to 'master' it.)

How to piss someone off: Tell a singer who has spent years and years working on their expertise that they have a "gift from God" ... thus belittling all that hard work.

Solafighter · 2012-12-22, 16:01

If you have a goal, you want to achieve, then you have to work hard for it. You can develop and explore your talents, while getting closer to this goal.

SaintessHeart · 2012-12-22, 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

How to piss someone off: Tell a singer who has spent years and years working on their expertise that they have a "gift from God" ... thus belittling all that hard work.

Thank you, old man, for being late with that advice.

I pissed off a female friend today by saying that she has a natural talent for "cosmetics and fashion".

She exploded. I wish someone would just write a guidebook about women.

mystogan · 2012-12-22, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solafighter

If you have a goal, you want to achieve, then you have to work hard for it. You can develop and explore your talents, while getting closer to this goal.

one can certainly achieve their goal through hard work,however if one doesn't work hard enough he won't be in the lead, but the one who has talent will always be, thus reducing the chance for the one working hard
but still hard work will always pay off, so they say
it's very difficult to chose between the two because both these factors go parallel

Archon_Wing · 2012-12-22, 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Neither.

The only thing that gets you ahead in the modern world is very good luck and nepotism. Maybe kissing some ass real good thrown in there, too.

Luck is definitely a factor. Though I'd definitely say if I were born in a less affluent country that things would be very difficult. Hell, the fact that we're all still alive and not victims of random violence so that we can actually think about what to achieve is quite a stroke of good fortune.

But likewise, it's also much easier when you have wealth in the family.

Triple_R · 2012-12-22, 18:58

I've watched Wayne Gretzky and I've watched Michael Jordan.

All the hard work in the world isn't going to allow 99.9999% of the population to reach their level of excellence in either of their respective sports. When you get to the truly elite level, talent tends to be the difference-maker.

Could Gretzky and Jordan have reached the levels they did without hard work? Of course not, but there's also no way they'd reach it without the talents they were born with. And while hard work can be emulated, talent can't - You either have it, or you don't.

Honestly, I highly recommend the anime Hyouka precisely for its commentary on this topic.

Also, it's fine for a person to tell someone that he or she has "a gift from God". The comment does not have to end there, after all. A person can follow it up by saying " And it's clear you've put in a lot of hard work developing and mastering that gift. Well done."

If someone told me I had "a gift from God", I would take it in the complimentary spirit that it's meant, and not take it as some perceived slight against the effort I put into whatever it is I'm being complimented on.

Reckoner · 2012-12-22, 19:07

Basically most people who set out to achieve something for real works hard. Hard work alone only gets you so far. It's talent in the end that will distinguish you from the crowd. And if you're trying to get a job, it's all about connections.

Of course you need luck just to be born in the right circumstances in order to even think about what you want to do as well.

Triple_R · 2012-12-22, 19:11

Yeah, I think that Reckoner succinctly nails it.

And after what I've heard, read, and watched on some international competitions (such as the Olympics and the Tour de France), I definitely think being born in certain countries gives you a leg-up on the competition.

View Poll Results: Hard Work vs Talent
Hard Work	79	65.29%
Talent	42	34.71%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

2012-12-22, 00:56	Link #101
Kyuu =^^= Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude) Age: 45	Remember. Even Goku had to go through plenty of extensive training -- until he can improve his skills and power. Yet, he had all the natural talent in the world (or beyond it). __________________ Japanese Mahjong Group \| Currently Watching List \| Click on this - I dare you.

2012-12-22, 01:03	Link #102
kenjiharima Mizore-chan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moe Land Age: 43	Some talents are God given like the talent like you can hold high voltage current and not suffer an electric shock. But nothing replaces hardwork on a certain thing you want to achieve or have. __________________ Vampire+Sisters

2012-12-22, 01:36	Link #103
barcode120x MSN, FNP-C Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ontario, CA Age: 34	Definitely hard work. In this day and age, hard work is needed to find a steady job with or without education and just to get through life in general. I kind of see talent as a result of hard work, but there people that are just born with certain talents such as jumping high enough to dunk a basketball; however, it takes hard work to push that talent even further. __________________ "Avoiding the truth but trying not to lie, and it's just terrible." "Caring may occur without curing, but curing cannot occur without caring." “Uncertainty is the most disturbing part of decision making.”

2012-12-22, 04:49	Link #104
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 40	Neither. The only thing that gets you ahead in the modern world is very good luck and nepotism. Maybe kissing some ass real good thrown in there, too. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2012-12-22, 05:13	Link #105
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	If you're talking about a "normal job" (doctor, nurse, teacher, office work, manager, etc...) then I think that hard work is more important. If you're talking about anything rooted in athletics or artistry (pro sports player, painter, novelist, actor, etc...) then I think talent is most important. The following is very common in the NHL (National Hockey League) - 3rd and 4th liners that work extremely hard every shift and every game, but they'll never be more than 3rd or 4th liners because they just don't have the offensive talent to score at a rate teams expect of 1st and 2nd liners. Then you have many 1st and 2nd liners that float half the time, but will get their 20 or more goals per season because of their huge talent edge. __________________

2012-12-22, 11:33	Link #108
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 35	Hard Work. Hard work can substitute for talent, but talent can't substitute for hard work. For instance, the ones who get As in school or colleges are not usually the most talented ones, it's the hardest workers. In some ways, Talent can have a deleterious effect, as you get too used to not trying hard, as everything comes to you easily compared to your peers.

2012-12-22, 15:49	Link #112
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	For those who think that hard work is everything, try working 2-3 jobs just to save up for university. And after you finish university, see where your more "social" friends have gone in life. __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.

2012-12-22, 15:57	Link #113
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	I'll use one of my fictional characters as an example - people tend to think she's an inhumanly talented guitarist channeling the music of the gods but she spent literally thousands and thousands of hours practicing and playing. Its all she did, rather like Olympic gymnasts who spend every waking moment in the gym. She was so shy that she just focused on that. So, you may have a mental attribute or a physical characteristic that lends itself to the sport/talent/craft in question but large after that it is the "10,000 hour rule". (The science shows it takes about a 1000 hours to get 'good' at something, and about 10,000 to 'master' it.) How to piss someone off: Tell a singer who has spent years and years working on their expertise that they have a "gift from God" ... thus belittling all that hard work. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-12-22, 16:01	Link #114
Solafighter Hige Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: God only knows	If you have a goal, you want to achieve, then you have to work hard for it. You can develop and explore your talents, while getting closer to this goal. __________________

2012-12-22, 18:58	Link #118
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	I've watched Wayne Gretzky and I've watched Michael Jordan. All the hard work in the world isn't going to allow 99.9999% of the population to reach their level of excellence in either of their respective sports. When you get to the truly elite level, talent tends to be the difference-maker. Could Gretzky and Jordan have reached the levels they did without hard work? Of course not, but there's also no way they'd reach it without the talents they were born with. And while hard work can be emulated, talent can't - You either have it, or you don't. Honestly, I highly recommend the anime Hyouka precisely for its commentary on this topic. Also, it's fine for a person to tell someone that he or she has "a gift from God". The comment does not have to end there, after all. A person can follow it up by saying " And it's clear you've put in a lot of hard work developing and mastering that gift. Well done." If someone told me I had "a gift from God", I would take it in the complimentary spirit that it's meant, and not take it as some perceived slight against the effort I put into whatever it is I'm being complimented on. __________________

2012-12-22, 19:11	Link #120
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	Yeah, I think that Reckoner succinctly nails it. And after what I've heard, read, and watched on some international competitions (such as the Olympics and the Tour de France), I definitely think being born in certain countries gives you a leg-up on the competition. __________________