The Official Football Thread

[Shinndou]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

OTOH, Italy is still the same old Italy

Lippi's back, by the way. And, I hope for the new youngsters to switch from the U-21 to the first team for the WC2010 qualification phase. I think you're acquainted with Rossi, Giovinco and the others. If you're not, youtube them and you'll see what I mean about Italy changing face in the future years.

[Kinny Riddle]

Originally Posted by Blaat

Are we watching the same Euro?

I was talking about Germany overall since Klinnsman took over. You're merely generalizing them with just the few games we have all watched. It wouldn't be fair if I said Holland were boring just based on their defeat to Russia when they were off-form, would it? Or say Russia is "hopeless" just based on last night's game while ignoring their demolition of Sweden and Holland?

Because Germany only had one match that reminded me of their 2006 team and they deservedly won that quarter-final, funnily enough it wasn't Low who coached the team in that match.

Sure Low didn't coach that match, but you're conveniently forgetting the fact that it was his idea to switch to 4-2-3-1 and start with Schweinsteiger instead of Gomez that worked effectively against the Portuguese in the first place and his assistant Hansi Flick simply stuck to his gameplan.

Against Turkey they were piss poor, and the Turks with their third rate team were outplaying them in some moments. They were struggling against Austria and they were poor against Croatia.

The 4-2-3-1 probably didn't work as effectively against the Turks, plus the Turks were desperate. For some reason Germany seems to raise their game against "top-class" opponents and stutter against the "less fancied" sides. So let's just say meeting Spain might just be the boost they need to raise their game at the right time.

[Blaat]

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

I was talking about Germany overall since Klinnsman took over. You're merely generalizing them with just the few games we have all watched. It wouldn't be fair if I said Holland were boring just based on their defeat to Russia when they were off-form, would it? Or say Russia is "hopeless" just based on last night's game while ignoring their demolition of Sweden and Holland?

You would have made an excellent point if German had just one poor match, except they didn't... they had three: vs Turkey, Austria and Croatia. Against Poland I thought they were decent but Poland was quite poor. Against Portugal they were excellent. So my 'generalization' isn't based on just one match (unlike your examples) but they're based on the three matches... out of five. That's the majority of their matches in the tournament and one of them was a recent semi-final.
It frustrates me to see a team that can play excellent football, play in a poor way. It also frustrates me to see a team reach the final even though the majority of their matches were poor and uninspiring.

Shame too, I really liked (and supported) them in 2006.

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

Sure Low didn't coach that match, but you're conveniently forgetting the fact that it was his idea to switch to 4-2-3-1 and start with Schweinsteiger instead of Gomez that worked effectively against the Portuguese in the first place and his assistant Hansi Flick simply stuck to his gameplan.

You're conveniently forgetting the fact that Gomez was utter shit in the first three matches and didn't contribute anything helpful to the team, his switch should have happened after the first match. Low had no choice in that matter.

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

So let's just say meeting Spain might just be the boost they need to raise their game at the right time.

Depends whether Arogones use the same tactics as the Turks: pressure on Ballack.

[Zico]

Originally Posted by Blaat

For the sake of football, the beautiful game, I hope Spain wins on Sunday.

Couldn't have put it better. Germany did win against portugal, but it sure did help the ref overlooked Ballack's blatant pushing at the 3-1 which gave them the win basically. Other than that, sure, germany has tried to change their ugly football to more offensive orientated football, but come on now, they have mostly mediocre players. Many big name players agree in their commentary on the germans. 2006 was their home tournament, which i think contributed to their semifinal place a lot. Germany is a tournament team, but i think too many overrate their actual abilty. They have had good luck with draws in 2002, 2006, and 2008 again, minus portugal. Turkey wasn't easy, but even they had a b-side and germany still had to win with luck. Just dismissing it as "desperate' will cost the germans if they also have that attitude.
But quite honestly, they haven't impressed even a fraction as much as the so far unbeatable and almost flawless spain (minus the tough match against the very defensive sweden) who are also very strong unit as a team but have a huge advantage in their quality of players that is miles above that of the germans.
If you go through the players individually and match them up no sane person can deny spain is a much more fitting european champion. Form of the day and luck are always factors, but for a fitting european champion that inspires with both quality as well as teamwork and mentality, Spain is the obvious choice.

So yes, for the sake of the game, I'm saying Spain is going to win with at least 2 goals difference.

[Shinndou]

Lol, "the sake of game". I see Germany with three stars on their chests, how many stars does Spain have? That should make you understand why it is not a good thing to understimate Germany in any tournament ever.

[Kinny Riddle]

Originally Posted by Blaat

You would have made an excellent point if German had just one poor match, except they didn't... they had three: vs Turkey, Austria and Croatia. Against Poland I thought they were decent but Poland was quite poor. Against Portugal they were excellent. So my 'generalization' isn't based on just one match (unlike your examples) but they're based on the three matches... out of five. That's the majority of their matches in the tournament and one of them was a recent semi-final.

As you yourself have mentioned, your generalisation is still based on 3 matches out of 5, instead of over 2 years.

It frustrates me to see a team that can play excellent football, play in a poor way. It also frustrates me to see a team reach the final even though the majority of their matches were poor and uninspiring.

Shame too, I really liked (and supported) them in 2006.

Originally Posted by Zico

So yes, for the sake of the game, I'm saying Spain is going to win with at least 2 goals difference.

You think I'm not frustrated as well? I will concede on this as this argument is getting ridiculous, but it still doesn't justify you guys slacking off the Germans as being "bad for football". I would be less offended if you said "For the sake of the game, I hope France/Italy/Greece or anyone who plays their style doesn't win". To slack off the Germans for trying to be adventurous despite having "low quality" players is ridiculous.

BTW, why am I doing the defending for the Germans? I'm not even German. Where are you guys from Germany? You gonna sit still and let your team get slacked like that?

You're conveniently forgetting the fact that Gomez was utter shit in the first three matches and didn't contribute anything helpful to the team, his switch should have happened after the first match. Low had no choice in that matter.

Did you not see me say Low "replace Gomez with Schweinsteiger"? Of course I realise Gomez was bullshit, Low must have realized that as well after three matches. To be fair to him, the first two games Low still had the benefit of the doubt about replacing Gomez, but that ridiculous miss against Austria meant that doubt was removed.

Depends whether Arogones use the same tactics as the Turks: pressure on Ballack.

I couldn't give a damn about Ballack due to his Chelski allegiances, and I wouldn't mind seeing Fernando Torres lifting trophies besides club ones either.

[Blaat]

Ballack might be out for the final.

Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle

I will concede on this as this argument is getting ridiculous

I fully agree, let's just end this. As closing words I will say that using the word football was harsh on my part I should have said "For the sake of the tournament" because as you said Germany don't play bad (and they can play rather attractive) but IMO in the way they reached the final in this tournament they don't really deserve to lift the trophy especially compared to Spain.

[Eps~]

Less than an hour before the final, time to get serious!

[Shinndou]

GG Spain! The best team at this Euro. A deserved win.

[WONDERMIKE]

the Germans looked really pathetic in the 2nd half, they are lucky with 0:1.. just imagine Villa wasn't injured oh well, there goes my bet again

[Zico]

No doubt about it, the best team by far won it.
This is a victory to football, for me personally, that's how i see it.
The most talented team by a longshot has won, i don't think there's really room for debate on that, both by numbers as well as performance on the field.
This is what happens when talent is combined with teamwork and spirit, you get an almost flawless champion. A champion that seemed to take pity on Germany by only scoring 1 goal where it could or should've been 4 or 5. Not even the Germans can play like shit 4 out of 6 games and win a tournament, thank god for that.

[Kinny Riddle]

The better team won, there's no argument about it.

Delighted to see Torres score the winning goal, even though he didn't score a lot this tournament, he can score when you want him to. (I'm also quite relieved he came out of this tournament in one-piece. )

Amazed at Michael Ballack's unenviable destiny, he's fated to be an Eternal Runner-up. Germany might do better without him next time. Poor guy.

Zico: I still don't agree with you about your "victory for football" statement. Spain's victory is a "spectacle for football" maybe, but it's not the Germans' fault that they were inferior to Spain tonight, and they do not play anti-football and actually tried to surge in that short moment of time after Kuranyi came on.

[Eps~]

Congratulations Spain. Another failed final for Ballack

And thus the Euro 2008 comes to an end. Enjoyed every signle moment of it. Next stop FIFA World Cup in 2 years.

[Kinny Riddle]

Here is listed Ballack's "amazing" Runners-up record:

1. 2000 - Bayer Leverkusen - Bundesliga 2nd
2. 2002 - Bayer Leverkusen - Bundesliga 2nd
3. 2002 - Bayer Leverkusen - German Cup 2nd
4. 2002 - Bayer Leverkusen - UEFA Champions League 2nd
5. 2002 - Germany - FIFA World Cup 2nd
6. 2004 - Bayern Munich - Bundesliga 2nd
7. 2007 - Chelsea - Premier League 2nd
8. 2008 - Chelsea - English League Cup 2nd
9. 2008 - Chelsea - Premier League 2nd
10. 2008 - Chelsea - UEFA Champions League 2nd
11. 2008 - Germany - Euro 2008 2nd

To be fair to the guy, he did win at least one Bundesliga just before he left for Chelsea, and last year's FA Cup with Chelsea, but his tally of Runners-up medals simply overwhelm these achievements.

[Solafighter]

Yeah im good award of Ballacks record to dream of the first place. So he has still something, he can dream about.

[ApostleOfGod]

Lol, was anyone watching at the last few seconds of the time added, when the German and Spanish guys jumped for the ball and when the Spanish guy headbutted, the German guy major-faked getting hurt? Lol... Soccer players.. It's getting repetitive, no?


Oh, and I was always wondering.. Since Soccer = Football in Europe, what's Football (American) = in European terms?

[Itachikun]

Oh, and I was always wondering.. Since Soccer = Football in Europe, what's Football (American) = in European terms?[/QUOTE]

I think we just call it American Football... since most of the world use football for soccer.

[KiNA]

Finally, after so long, Spain could muster a team of good players to win a major tournament. Not just a bunch of good players trying to win a game

[Reckoner]

I was pulling for Germany today, my hopes and dreams crushed with a goal that shouldn't even of happened... (Well to be fair to Spain there like 3 other goals they should've got anyway >.<).

Now Rafael Nadal is going to be pumped up for tennis at Wimbledon since Spain won. God!

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by ApostleOfGod

Oh, and I was always wondering.. Since Soccer = Football in Europe, what's Football (American) = in European terms?

your Football is called "Football" or "American Football" while Soccer is referred to as "Fußball" which is German for Football, so we use the same word in different languages to describe two different sports I guess other European countries do it the same way, Soccer = Football(in their own language) while (American) Football is "your" Football.

But people tend to call everything (American) Football, no matter what it really is(Rugby, Canadian Football,..) probably because the majority isn't really interested and therefore everything is the same to them. The only exception is the American Superbowl, then suddenly we even have Superbowl-Parties and stuff but just a few watch the Play-Offs. Our local (american) football leagues aren't much popular either, I guess their level is quite low and far away from American/Canadian standards. Maybe the Brits have a better league since they have some relationship?