[Manga] Naruto Chapter 547 Discussion

[Essenar]

I guess Kishimoto can cross Gaara's name off the "emotional reunion talk-no-jutsu" list. Who else is left? I'm fairly certain Madara will have an emotional tear-jerking flash-back memory of his brother dying or something. Kabuto will have an emotional tear-jerking flash-back memory/reunion with Orochimaru. Orochimaru, during his emotional tear-jerking flash-back memory/reuinion with Kabuto, will have an emotional tear-jerking flash-back memory/reunion with the third Hokage.

And then we'll probably finally have a Sasuke emotional tear-jerking flash-back memory/reunion with Naruto (because Sasuke has always been special and if Naruto gets two emotional tear-jerking flash-back memory/reunions, Sasuke does too! But his will have the real animators and not the reject animators Naruto always gets).

We still haven't had any of these moments for a few other diabolical villains and murderers. Kyuubi should have one too.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

That's not a plot hole. Call it an evolution.

More like a degredation, really.

The idea that hard work could trump genetics, and his views on destiny, are ideas Kishimoto has long since abandoned. But should any of us be shocked? Rare is a shonen hero who is not special and birthed from greatness. They are always the chosen one.

Really? Care to name a few, because I can name a few series in which that is entirely not the case.

Dragonball
One Piece
Fullmetal Alchemist
Death Note
Bakuman

To defend Kishi, 10 years is too long for any author to write in one universe and expect it to be consistent.

No, not really.

American comic book writers are always changing their established canon.

Apples and oranges. American comic books (i.e. superhero comic books) have a huge history going back more than 70 years. During that time, hundreds of different authors have done their take on these characters, some succeeding, some failing, and have further complicated it with universe expansion and interlocking stories. Also, any changing of "established canon" is usually done with official announced reboots of series or alternate storylines (as for genuine plotholes, yeah, as I said before, some writers succeed, others fail). Whereas with Naruto, you have one series that's being going on for just over 10 years and which only one man has total creative control over.

The manga Kishomoto probably envisioned even 7 years ago is likely far different than the one he is writing today.

It's a shame we couldn't have the manga he probably envisioned when he was still good at what he did.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Whereas with Naruto, you have one series that's being going on for just over 10 years and which only one man has total creative control over.

I'm not going to defend Kishi, but i highly doubt if he really has total creative control over "his" manga.

I don't know if i'm correct or not, but to me in this kind of mangas, editorials always try to take any money as they can. Besides, i don't know if Kishi is capable to "fight" with editors for his ideas... again, it's just an idea that i have.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Really? Care to name a few, because I can name a few series in which that is entirely not the case.

Dragonball
One Piece
Fullmetal Alchemist
Death Note
Bakuman

Besides Bakuman, your examples aren't very good. Goku was an alien, so all of his struggles from DB instantly becomes less special considering that the entire time we thought he was a hard-working human, he was actually an alien that almost automatically becomes stronger by simply fighting. Luffy, from One Piece, is the son of greatness. The Elric Bros., from Fullmetal, are also sons of greatness. And Light from Death Note has a 200 IQ (or something close to that), and was the son of the head of police (or head detective, or whatever his father did). So, all were in fact, "special and birthed from greatness." (I could also comment that one of the 2 main characters from Bakuman was the nephew of a successful mangaka, so he could have also been predisposed to greatness as well, but a nephew is not the same as a son, so the whole "legacy"/genetics angle is not as prevalent.)

That is not to say that there is not manga/anime that features a main character that begins with nothing only to eventually become the best/one of the best (at whatever his universe competes in). Ippo, for example, from Hajime no Ippo springs to mind. He started from nothing, was constantly picked on in school, but he eventually becomes the Japanese Feather-Weight Boxing Champion, and will probably go on to fight the world.

Honestly, the whole "legacy" vs. "hard work" theme seems to be more of an east/west divide rather than an intrinsic problem or failure (on Kishimoto's part).

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by james0246

Besides Bakuman, your examples aren't very good.

Well then, you're completely missing the point.

Goku was an alien, so all of his struggles from DB instantly becomes less special considering that the entire time we thought he was a hard-working human, he was actually an alien that almost automatically becomes stronger by simply fighting.

Granted, yes, his efforts did become a bit less meaningful once we found out he was alien, but even then he wasn't a child of destiny. It was stated that even among Saiyans he was supposed to be a weak fighter.

Luffy, from One Piece, is the son of greatness.

He is the son of a prominent revolutionary, nothing more. For the most part, this has not given him any real advantage (genetics, status, or otherwise) in his goal to become the Pirate King.

The Elric Bros., from Fullmetal, are also sons of greatness.

No, they're the sons of a Xerxian slave who, some may say, had the grave misfortune of making friends with the dwarf in the flask and now has the half the population of an entire country inside of him. What's more, he has no status, he's just a nameless drifter. And again, just the fact that they're his sons has not given them any real advantage.

And Light from Death Note has a 200 IQ (or something close to that), and was the son of the head of police (or head detective, or whatever his father did).

The fact that Light is a genius is incidental, it has nothing to do with his heritage, he just happens to be really smart. And how is being the son of head police detective "born from greatness" (Wow! My father has a very respectable job and I have an upper middle class family! Truly I am a child of destiny!) In fact, if anything, his father's occupation worked against him while he was trying to achieve his goals.

So, all were in fact, "special and birthed from greatness." (I could also comment that one of the 2 main characters from Bakuman was the nephew of a successful mangaka, so he could have also been predisposed to greatness as well, but a nephew is not the same as a son, so the whole "legacy"/genetics angle is not as prevalent.)

I have to stress that there is a difference between having an interesting or abnormal family background and being "special and birthed from greatness." Yes, while these characters' heritages may have given them some advantages, they are by no means the only reasons they succeeded; they still had to do almost everything on their own. Whereas with Naruto, pretty much everything's been given to him on a silver platter since he found out his heritage. He wants to be Hokage? Well waddya know, his dad was Hokage! His ability to control the Nine-tails? Well apparently that's because he's the descendant of a clan who has a real knack for controlling the tailed beasts. Naruto is, indisputably, a chosen child who, apparently, everyone always believed would rise to greatness. None of those other characters were "chosen."

That is not to say that there is not manga/anime that features a main character that begins with nothing only to eventually become the best/one of the best (at whatever his universe competes in). Ippo, for example, from Hajime no Ippo springs to mind. He started from nothing, was constantly picked on in school, but he eventually becomes the Japanese Feather-Weight Boxing Champion, and will probably go on to fight the world.

I guess I'll take your word on that. I haven't read it.

Honestly, the whole "legacy" vs. "hard work" theme seems to be more of an east/west divide rather than an intrinsic problem or failure (on Kishimoto's part).

It is a problem when he flip-flops between the two.

Originally Posted by Fran~

I'm not going to defend Kishi, but i highly doubt if he really has total creative control over "his" manga.

I don't know if i'm correct or not, but to me in this kind of mangas, editorials always try to take any money as they can. Besides, i don't know if Kishi is capable to "fight" with editors for his ideas... again, it's just an idea that i have.

You and anyone else who thinks this way about manga editors need to understand this: Editors are not these personifications of meddling overly-controlling bullies that a lot of people make them out to be. For the most part, editors pretty much let the authors write and draw whatever they want (within reason, of course). They're only there to offer advice and suggestions of where to take the story, improvements of dialogue, art, chapter layout, etc. They rarely, if ever, specifically tell an author exactly what to do with the story and by no means can they "force" the author to do anything. All of this is even more true for Kishi since he's had such a successful series running for so long, so the editors naturally believe that Kishi must know what he's doing.

If you want a good idea of how the manga-ka-editor relationship works, the by all means, please check out Bakuman if you haven't already.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Fran~

I'm not going to defend Kishi, but i highly doubt if he really has total creative control over "his" manga.

I would actually be surprised if Kishimoto had full control. Some of these developments seem pretty contrived and forced in, at least to me. For example, in my opinion, it seems as if Naruto's current power level was mostly tacked-on on the fly(as well as his now extra "special " lineage... Strong "life force" now? ), because of fans bickering about a gap in power between Naruto and Sasuke. It might actually be because of red-tape, time constraints, and/or pressure from investors, some kind of manga bureaucrats or what have you, but I really doubt this is what the author wanted to put forth. The flow and rhythm just doesn't seem seamless and natural to me.

[Midnight Commander]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

LOL, this is completely made up and not how the manga industry operates at all.

Here's a simpler answer: Kishi can't write for beans.

I guess I should have put up a disclaimer for you. I have no idea what goes on in Kishimoto's place of business or the internal workings of his Naruto franchise; perhaps you have such knowledge. I'm only stating an opinion based off of what I see from reading the manga, as I stated above. I never even tried to state I know how the manga industry works, since I made guesses(I actually stated *might be* red tape, etc) about why the manga seems to be the way it is.

It would be interesting to know though, why its impossible for an author to have to tweak a story (even if its a clumsy tweak) because of adverse(or whatever) reactions from fans, which can potentially effect sales. I guess you're knowledgeable about the subject, perhaps you can shed some light on that for me? I'd appreciate it. If this is really what he wanted to put forward, then I'd agree his writing skills have probably diminished from previous years, or he is just not currently in "his element" for whatever reason. I want to believe though, that these less than stellar developments aren't completely his fault.

[Suika-Esper]

Naruto's heritage never struck me as mattering at all. So what if he was the son of the 4th Hokage? He STUNK as a ninja throughout most of his life. He worked hard to get as strong as he is now. Being the son of the 4th had nothing to do with it. He didn't even know he was related to him until Pain. By that time, he was already kicking butt and taking names in Sage mode on his own. Using the Kyuubi's power is the only thing you can really count as cheating, but he even swore that off, yet managed to get strong by choosing to use his own abilities. Even the Kyuubi mode's speed isn't his father passing down his technique, it's the tailed beast's power. He hasn't even learned any of his mother's sealing techniques. So really he didn't attain power simply for being born into any lineage. I will say that Kyuubi mode is pretty darn broken though. Standard shonen power up syndrome.

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

I would actually be surprised if Kishimoto had full control. Some of these developments seem pretty contrived and forced in, at least to me. For example, in my opinion, it seems as if Naruto's current power level was mostly tacked-on on the fly(as well as his now extra "special " lineage... Strong "life force" now? ), because of fans bickering about a gap in power between Naruto and Sasuke. It might actually be because of red-tape, time constraints, and/or pressure from investors, some kind of manga bureaucrats or what have you, but I really doubt this is what the author wanted to put forth. The flow and rhythm just doesn't seem seamless and natural to me.

I feel the same way.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Captain Commando

I guess I should have put up a disclaimer for you. I have no idea what goes on in Kishimoto's place of business or the internal workings of his Naruto franchise; perhaps you have such knowledge.

Well I can tell you right now that Naruto's decline in quality is not because of imaginary manga bureaucrats, because I know enough that that's not how the manga industry works.

I'm only stating an opinion based off of what I see from reading the manga, as I stated above. I never even tried to state I know how the manga industry works, since I made guesses(I actually stated *might be* red tape, etc) about why the manga seems to be the way it is.

What you call an opinion, I call a completely baseless assumption. You saw a problem, of which you have almost no knowledge of, and speculated that something that doesn't even exist was the cause. It's basically the equivalent of saying, "Hey my sink is clogged up. Must be because there's a boa constrictor crawling around in the pipes."

It would be interesting to know though, why its impossible for an author to have to tweak a story (even if its a clumsy tweak) because of adverse(or whatever) reactions from fans, which can potentially effect sales. I guess you're knowledgeable about the subject, perhaps you can shed some light on that for me? I'd appreciate it. If this is really what he wanted to put forward, then I'd agree his writing skills have probably diminished from previous years, or he is just not currently in "his element" for whatever reason.

It's certainly possible, and usually logical, for writers to tweak their stories when their series' fall in the polls, but what reason does Kishi have to tweak it? Where are these adverse fan reactions? He still comes in the top 5 every week and the volumes still sell extremely well.

I want to believe though, that these less than stellar developments aren't completely his fault.

I hate to ruin this golden idol image you have in your head of Kishi, but any and all developments of a story are at least 95% the fault of the author. So yes, it is pretty much entirely his fault.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Suika-Esper

Using the Kyuubi's power is the only thing you can really count as cheating, but he even swore that off, yet managed to get strong by choosing to use his own abilities.

I couldn't really disagree with anything beyond this. Because Naruto will always be indebted to both his father and the fox for laying the foundation that paved the way for his own abilities to become what they are now. I mean Naruto's own chakra pool was only able to reach kage levels and beyond because Kyuubi's leaked chakra was developing it from the time he was born. And since much of Naruto's growth (without Kyuubi) came down to taking full advantage of his massive amounts of chakra and his unusually fast healing speed (once again thanks to Kyuubi) to kick his training sessions into overdrive, it's safe to assume things like sage mode, elemental training, and even the rasengan variations would not have been possible for him to learn as quickly as he did. In fact, there's a very good chance that a number of his most powerful techniques would not have been possible at all.

[Fran~]

Let's see... i understand Nobodyman9, the description about editors seems correct to me, but, i want to make a question: What if Kishi decides to end the manga and the editorial says NO WAY!? What if he wanted to kill Hinata when Pain stabbed her?... those question to me are hard to answer without thinking in money more than the wishes of any author.

Naruto is a franchise more than a manga who is good enough to be published in WSJ, it isn't simple for Kishi or editors to kill a character or end the manga.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Let's see... i understand Nobodyman9, the description about editors seems correct to me, but, i want to make a question: What if Kishi decides to end the manga and the editorial says NO WAY!?

If Kishi really wants to end the manga he has every right to. Again, no one can put a gun to his head and force him to write/draw, but as a professional manga author he does have a personal obligation to be professional about it. He can't just go into the Shueisha building and say, "Well, I'm done. As of right now, I won't be drawing anymore Naruto chapters. See ya later." (Well, I guess he could, but again, it would be very unprofessional). As a decent and respectable author, what he would do is let is editor know that he feels he has done all he can with the series and he wants to end it soon. Now, it is possible the editors could show some resistance, but if Kishi is deadset on it, they'll let him. Once a series has run as long and been as successful as Naruto it's not really that difficult for the author to quit.

Now, of course, Kishi has not decided to end the series prematurely and wishes to draw it out to its "natural" conclusion. I don't know exactly why he's chosen to continue since it seems pretty apparent that he doesn't have nearly the enthusiasm for it that he used to have, but my guess that it's either out of obligation he feels towards the fans or because he actually still does enjoy doing it, but he just doesn't care about it enough to give it the same quality of part 1.

What if he wanted to kill Hinata when Pain stabbed her?

If he really wanted to he would and could have. But apparently since everyone who "died" in the Pain arc was revived at the end (and Hinata was revived even before that) I don't think he had any plans of doing so.

... those question to me are hard to answer without thinking in money more than the wishes of any author.

Like I said, the author pretty much has total creative control. He can give into the demands of the fans and editors if he wants or he can do everything completely independently. Either way, if the story sucks, it's his fault.

Naruto is a franchise more than a manga who is good enough to be published in WSJ, it isn't simple for Kishi or editors to kill a character or end the manga.

Huge "franchises" kill off characters all the time. And again, if Kishi wants to end it, he can and all these franchisors and sponsors will be none the worse for ware. You can still make lots of money off a manga even after it's been cancelled, and there are plenty of other new potential "franchises" out there that would love to have Kishi's spot in WSJ.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

None of those other characters were "chosen."

I disagree. Whether by overt (prophecy) or covert (in the wrong place at the wrong time) means, your examples were all chosen. I simply emphasized Legacy as the means of being chosen (Luffy's "Will of D" and his famous father and grandfather (and famous mentor (Shanks), brother, and potentially mother); Goku's father and his stand against Frieza, not to mention Goku's alien genetics and literally being chosen by the Earth Gods/Kais; Bakuman's uncle inspiring everything (especially the Romance and the desire to be number one); Light doesn't quite work so I'll conceed the point).

Naruto was definetly chosen from a lot of different angles (some of which I wish did not exist), but his being chosen is not necessarily detrimental to the story (though it is not that good for his character)...

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

If you want a good idea of how the manga-ka-editor relationship works, the by all means, please check out Bakuman if you haven't already.

To be fair, using a fictional source as evidence is not really proof of anything. That being said, I do tend to agree that Kishimoto's editors do not "control" him...though they probably should.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Like I said, the author pretty much has total creative control. He can give into the demands of the fans and editors if he wants or he can do everything completely independently. Either way, if the story sucks, it's his fault.

Huge "franchises" kill off characters all the time. And again, if Kishi wants to end it, he can and all these franchisors and sponsors will be none the worse for wear. You can still make lots of money off a manga even after it's been cancelled, and there are plenty of other new potential "franchises" out there that would love to have Kishi's spot in WSJ.

I have little idea how the manga industry works, but if it is anything like the television/film industry, then it is nowhere near as cut-and-dry as you make it seem. To give a brief example, the creators of Lost (which you mentioned in the last week or so) originally intended to kill off the main character Jack in the first episode. In fact, all the creators were really excited about this. But, the producers (who are approximate to a mangaka’s editor), viciously rejected this idea, literally forcing the screenwriters to rewrite the pilot episode and keep Jack alive (this in turn changed the entire series). The reverse of this is also true, in True Blood, a major character died in the second book, but that character became so popular in the television series, that the producers literally forced the creators of the show to keep the character alive (effectively rewriting the entire series). Etc.

While I tend to agree that if the story "sucks" it is Kishimoto's fault, to argue that his editors and his publisher do not have some control over the content, seems unrealistic. Kishimoto is not being paid by random passerbys tossing him coins for his free-form art. He is being paid to produce a product that a company can make money off of (this is true of any form of mass entertainment) and a consumer can...well consume. So, I seriously doubt that he could simply quit, or simply kill off whomever he wishes. Consequently, like many things in life, I expect there is a compromise between Kishimoto's artistic endeavor/expression, what he thinks will actually sell, and what his editor and publisher thinks will sell.

[Nintendo]

not to beat a dead horse or anything, but ill agree with Nobodyman9 on the dragonball. Goku was always said to be a low level fighter who will not be anything and worked very hard pushing himself far to become greatness.

kimish can write....sometimes lol...it just seems his ideals and major plot points he forgot or just tossed away. Before we knew of narutos father, i assumed he was just like goku, a kid who worked very hard to be the best possible person...who dared to temp fate and really wanted to be the best ninja ever.....once he learned his dad was the 4th hokage, his whole speech about changing life itself to be the best was tossed right out the window....because it was shown that both his parents are far and above the 2 best ninjas in the manga.

now they might not have shown his mom beging great. but she was pretty much dying slowly and still held a full grown 9 tails down. So while i dont hate the manga, i see why some are just taking a crap on it. kimish brought this on himself when he changed the main points of things.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Nintendo

Goku was always said to be a low level fighter who will not be anything and worked very hard pushing himself far to become greatness.

This is true of Naruto though. Both were thought of as worthless, but both had a hidden heritage, and both were both chosen by something more powerful. While Naruto was chosen by his father (arguably, he is simply finishing what his father started), Goku was literally chosen by gods to be the protector of his planet (the god's promptly gave him training and taught him some of his most powerful techniques).

Like I said, there are manga/anime in which the main character is not "chosen" by anything. They might have unique abilities (often derived from childhood (Hajime no Ippo) or simple untapped potential (Slam Dunk)), but there is no real "fate" or "destiny" or "higher-power" involved. Just ordinary people who become extraordinary over time.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by james0246

I disagree. Whether by overt (prophecy) or covert (in the wrong place at the wrong time) means, your examples were all chosen. I simply emphasized Legacy as the means of being chosen (Luffy's "Will of D" and his famous father and grandfather (and famous mentor (Shanks), brother, and potentially mother); Goku's father and his stand against Frieza, not to mention Goku's alien genetics and literally being chosen by the Earth Gods/Kais; Bakuman's uncle inspiring everything (especially the Romance and the desire to be number one); Light doesn't quite work for Legacy, but he was obviously chose by chance).

This "chosen by chance" concept is so vague it could apply to basically anyone. Was Light chosen because he was the one who happened to pick up the deathnote? Was Nausicaa chosen because she had the innate ability to speak with all forms of life? Was Bruce Wayne chosen because his millionaire parents died? Was Superman chosen because he was the last of an alien race? Was Billy Peltzer chosen because his dad happened to pick up the Mogwai in the shop?

These are all protagonists, and yes, sometimes extraordinary things do happen to them, but that's what makes the story interesting. And while some of these characters have powerful backing them up, that's not what defines them. They still had to struggle and work on their own for what they attained. Whereas Naruto, over the course of the last 2-3 years, has been given pretty much every single advantage in genetics, heritage and status.

Naruto was definetly chosen from a lot of different angles (some of which I wish did not exist), but his being chosen is not necessarily detrimental to the story (though it is not that good for his character)...

Naruto's character is part of the story.

To be fair, using a fictional source as evidence is not really proof of anything.

It's a down-to-earth slice-of-life story about the life of a manga-ka written by a manga-ka. It's not 100% true, but it is a pretty good guideline of what goes on in the industry.

I have little idea how the manga industry works, but if it is anything like the television/film industry, then it is nowhere near as cut-and-dry as you make it seem. To give a brief example, the creators of Lost (which you mentioned in the last week or so) originally intended to kill off the main character Jack in the first episode. In fact, all the creators were really excited about this. But, the producers (who are approximate to a mangaka’s editor), viciously rejected this idea, literally forcing the screenwriters to rewrite the pilot episode and keep Jack alive (this in turn changed the entire series). The reverse of this is also true, in True Blood, a major character died in the second book, but that character became so popular in the television series, that the producers literally forced the creators of the show to keep the character alive (effectively rewriting the entire series). Etc.

And on the flipside, I really don't know much about the television/film industry. However, I am inclined to believe that television and film (especially film) is much more competitive, complicated, and controlled. Whereas a manga-ka does most of the work and the publisher only has to print and advertise it (and if it's not popular it can quickly be cancelled) a film production has to put up a huge investment for a movie, and if the film doesn't turn a profit it can be really bad for them. So yeah, though they're both artistic mediums, I imagine they don't operate quite the same way.

While I tend to agree that if the story "sucks" it is Kishimoto's fault, to argue that his editors and his publisher do not have some control over the content, seems unrealistic. Kishimoto is not being paid by random passerbys tossing him coins for his free-form art. He is being paid to produce a product that a company can make money off of (this is true of any form of mass entertainment) and a consumer can...well consume. So, I seriously doubt that he could simply quit, or simply kill off whomever he wishes. Consequently, like many things in life, I expect there is a compromise between Kishimoto's artistic endeavor/expression, what he thinks will actually sell, and what his editor and publisher thinks will sell.

Well obviously Kishi's not going to do something completely insane that will make a lot of people angry. And if, hypothetically, Kishi did plan to kill off a character (which he has done, BTW) I'm sure he'd let his editor know about it.

And again, it's not as simple as Kishi just going into the office and saying, "Well, I'm done." I imagine it would be a very gradual process that would happen over the course of several months.

[james0246]

^Actually, I edited out the "chosen by chance" (before you posted) for the reasons you had outlined.

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

So yeah, though they're both artistic mediums, I imagine they don't operate quite the same way.

They are both billion dollar/yen business, so I expect they operate/act in a more similar fashion than not (there are only so many ways you can run a corporate entertainment empire, and considering Shueisha is involved in animation and print, it is not like they are not qualified to understand both mediums).

[Ulquiorra]

There are two on the record incidents where Kishi has mentioned editor interference. The first was from a Jump Festa interview two years ago. He said he had no interest in doing anything with Karin, Suigetsu, and Juugo, but Shueisha said he had to show fights with them. At the time they were attached to Sasuke which is probably why Shueisha thought they were important. The other was from the recent fanbook. Kishi said he planned to show more with Hidan, but Shueisha told him to speed things up during the Zombie Twin Arc, and it was dropped. Neither of these events were plot changing, but I doubt they were the only incidents.

No one is saying this isn't Kishimoto's work we are reading. But like all published mangaka, he is not unfiltered. Someone is going over his work. On 2ch there is a feeling that Kishimoto is being forced to add certain story elements during the war that he has no interest in. And this is looked at as a good thing. Remember, this is the guy that thought 5 chapters of Choji crying like a baby and then becoming a plump Mothra was good development. It could have been even worse. Although nothing could have been as bad as that Darui fight.

[Kowai]

Wooow so much hate. Reminds me of comic book guy from the simpsons "worst episode ever." Kishi owes you nothing. He created a pretty fantastic story and if it doesnt go the way you want go write fanfiction or better yet your own story.

That aside the chapter was cool just the kage talking. This fight is one ive been waiting to see for a while. I don't care about gaara and his dad but I get it. Children are raised shitty in the narutoverse probably because
1) they live in a time of war
2) they are inthe narutoverse not reality.. Just enjoy the ninjas

[Nobodyman9]

All right, did I jump the gun a bit in using the words "total creative control?" Perhaps. But I maintain that the Naruto and American superhero comics scenarios are incomparable, and if Kishi really wanted to and if he had a good enough reason, he could pretty much include whatever he wanted in the story.

At any rate, the editors cannot be blamed at all for any lack of quality or inconsistencies in the manga. As Ulquiorra said, the few parts they did ask him to change are extremely minor and had no major impact on the story. As I said before, whether he gives in to the desires of fans or editors or if he just does whatever he wants, it's still entirely his fault since it's his manga.