Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[monster]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Btw, what's wrong with the manga adaptation of the series?

As I recall, they're basically alternate retellings, with some changes.

[Znozzy]

So, whos sign would win, Kira or Shinns?
(this discussion is pretty silly, lol, discussing shoulder signs and if they are useful when we've seen one on a promo image? disregarding the rogue of course)

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

(this discussion is pretty silly, lol, discussing shoulder signs and if they are useful when we've seen one on a promo image? disregarding the rogue of course)

Well, there’s nothing wrong discussing an aspect of the show when it’s interesting to us, is there? It can be silly or not depends on your view of “what if” situations.

And how can a sign "win" from another?

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Well, there’s nothing wrong discussing an aspect of the show when it’s interesting to us, is there? It can be silly or not depends on your view of “what if” situations.

True, true rather getting upset and emotional about it would be, though.

Honestly i'd bet it's like real life with certain pilots painting logos on their aircrafts, i hardly doubt they would be used for identification on the battlefield though, if anything they are a fun side thing for pilots to personalize/brag about their position/squadron in the hangers.

And how can a sign "win" from another?

Sarcasm, sarcasm!

i mean, If Shinn and Kira's signs would fight, who would win? /giggle

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

I hardly doubt they would be used for identification on the battlefield though, if anything they are a fun side thing for pilots to personalize/brag about their position/squadron in the hangers.

For personal insignias, yes of course (Waldfeld did it with his Tiger marking). But for the standard squadron markings (like Shiho’s mandatory “Team Jule” marking on her Zaku Warrior), I doubt it’s there just for fun.

Btw, when I said “Shiho’s Team Jule”, it feels like she's one of those Twilight fans XD.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

For personal insignias, yes of course (Waldfeld did it with his Tiger marking). But for the standard squadron markings (like Shiho’s mandatory “Team Jule” marking on her Zaku Warrior), I doubt it’s there just for fun.

i dunno, i wish they actually had more of those details in the anime, it adds atleast, well, some character to the grunts aside from the random custom color schemes.

Btw, when I said “Shiho’s Team Jule”, it feels like she's one of those Twilight fans XD.[/QUOTE]

Oh god, imagine the rivalry.

" Team Jule's the best! "
" No, Team Westenfluss is the best! "

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by monster

As I recall, they're basically alternate retellings, with some changes.

Basically, this is what Tokita's manga adaptations of G and Wing are, and alternate retellings = non-canon.

The Astray mangas are Secondary canon.

[Gundamx]

...Don't you just love it how we are here talking about MS shoulder signs and other forums talk about how Strike and Freedom been destroyed behind destiny?

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Than again it's better than people talking about who is stronger...
Though it won't be fun if Kira lost in Strike & Freedom to Shin and not have his final fight in SF with him...

[monster]

The one on Destiny's right looks to have a mono-eye. The background mobile suits aren't that clear to me.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

...Don't you just love it how we are here talking about MS shoulder signs and other forums talk about how Strike and Freedom been destroyed behind destiny?

So what? Back when Destiny aired, towards the end we got a promotional picture of a wrecked Destiny going in for the kill on an equally wrecked Strike Freedom. And we all know how that turned out in the show.

So this is just the same bullshit. No point in discussing a fight outcome that sure as hell isn't going to happen.

Originally Posted by monster

The one on Destiny's right looks to have a mono-eye. The background mobile suits aren't that clear to me.

No, those are definitely the Strike and the Freedom. You can recognize the Strike's arms, and the Freedom's opened cockpit (of course, Kira's mobile suit can't imply that he may have been killed!).

[monster]

Okay, on closer look, the red seems to be part of the Aile stiker pack. But at first glance, it looks like a BuCUE to me. So what is that yellow dot?

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by monster

Okay, on closer look, the red seems to be part of the Aile stiker pack. But at first glance, it looks like a BuCUE to me. So what is that yellow dot?

The yellow dot on the Strike's head is part of the flames around the picture. A wayward spark.

[monster]

I see, well that's a finely placed spark.

[Haak]

Spoiler for monster:

Originally Posted by monster

On GundamOfficial's listing for Junius Treaty, it said: "The Junius Treaty prohibits the use of N-Jammer Cancelers in mobile suits and military weapons."

That's very helpful to me considering GundamOfficial's site is dead, so I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're pulling that out of your arse. If you have any objections to that, then feel free to give me an actual source next time...

In any case, I don't see how what you've said disproves my point, since in the situation we're talking about, Orb will only be using the NJC for military purposes once the treaty has already been broken. Does the Junius Treaty prohibit obtaining the NJC altogether? If not then my point still stands.

That is indeed my point.

No, the point you made was that the EA didn't care about the consequences. Stop playing semantics.

MAD not being a factor because they've already gone past that point, does not prove that the EA doesn't care about MAD at all. Thus MAD can still be a factor against Orb.

They knew, hence why Yzak's mother mentioned nuclear weapons in her speech.

Yzak's mother very clearly talked about EA planning on using more nuclear weapons to encourage the nation to destroy EA before they could. ZAFT obviously knew the EA would try and launch more strikes, but they very clearly did not see that particular strike coming so soon. Please don't quote Yzak's mother's speech out of context. Just because she mentions nuclear strikes coming in the future, does not mean she knew that strike would happen so soon. Everything points to them being surprised by it.

One success with a huge loss to your side can be enough to make you think of another plan.

But not in this case, as I have already explained. Given what other plans they had it seems very clear that experimenting with nuclear weapons again is the most reasonable thing to do. Assuming they don't care about MAD of course...

?

Episode 9 after the stampeder has been used:

"The Stampeder's quantum fresnels have melted and activated the breaker. The system has now stopped functioning"

"I'm glad the Stampeder just made it in time"

"But it'll only work once. They'll know better the next time"

They built GENESIS to destroy the EA fleet, if not Earth's population itself

And why would they want to do that, pray tell? It seems very obvious they made it a last resort in case the EA were capable of nuclear strikes or something similar again.

From their own experience. Freedom and Justice helped to buy some time for Orb to regroup at Kaguya.

And Orb were already in battle hence why they needed to regroup. That's not going to be the case in this situation. The EA have no reason to believe they can get to Orb's mass driver before Orb can. It's just not logically possible.

And if you're making a point about experience, then their experience tells them they won't get the Mass Driver. The differentiation shouldn't matter right?

The PLANTs is what they want to destroy completely. The Destroys are enough for the Earth, where they can rebuild and repopulate.

The Destroys clearly didn't prove to be enough and even then they could have used nuclear weapons. There is absoutely nothing in the show to suggest they used the Destroys out of efficiency over nuclear weapons and if you're using the point that the EA want to rebuild and repopulate then you also have to accept that the EA cares about the consequences of MAD.

You've also once again inadvertently proven that EA wouldn't want to use nuclear weapons on Orb.

Some people wouldn't risk it after what happened in SEED.

And where would they have that perspective from? Circular logic?

What they wanted was the mass driver, Morgenroette, and the surrender of Orb. So they got 1 out of 3 last time and they were shown to be confident that they could've won if it wasn't for Freedom and Justice.

That one that they got is only useful if they get the other two and they didn't so that one that they got is completely useless to them. And the fate remains that Orb was still able to hide whatever it wants from the EA. It didn't need Freedom and Justice to do that.

If they had any reason to believe that, then sure. But the fact is, they did not think that they could. I would say that they made a hasty decision.

But, since they obviously didn't think they had a way to deter an EA attack, even though the threat wasn't there yet, I also accept that they joined the EA as a preemptive move.

So you're moving the goal posts then?

Just to be clear you said my point that Orb would not reverse it's ideals so easily would be valid if Orb didn't think they could deter EA from an imminent threat.

To me the idea that they would completely change their ideals fro something that isn't even an imminent threat is not something I care to even argue about.

There are two things here:

1. What you're proposing (that EA won't get anything out of it and have no reason to attack Orb at all) is not something that Orb could guarantee on their end. In SEED, the EA did not have a reason to attack Orb until they found one.

2. Assuming the EA did find themselves a reason to attack Orb, again, Orb's experience in SEED tells them they couldn't deter an attack from the EA.

1. And as I have pointed out just because Orb can't gaurentee it (you can't guarantee anything), doesn't mean they're going to automatically believe it will happen. The only reason they would is if they have a perspective that's preventing them and that's ciruclar logic because you said it's their reasons against detterence that's what lead them to their perspective, not the other way around.

2. And once again, experience isn't going to be the only thing for them to go on unless they have that perspective which you can't assume they would.

So let me ask again: which one is it?

Orb deterred a ZAFT ship who was only there for the Archangel. They did not deter an EA fleet who was there for Orb.

No, since as i pointed out, Orb risked the rest of ZAFT getting involved and you didn't deny that.

Spoiler for Znozzy:

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Coming to a conclusion or not, they signed the treaty.

Yeah no kidding. The point is that it's out of character, not that it didn't happen. i don't know how many times I'm going to have to keep saying that...

Murasame pilot during the attack on Minerva. The Seirans where in charge.

Because they couldn't be sure that Cagalli was actually there. Remember what happened when Orb was being attacked by ZAFT and Yuna, in his desperation, acknowledged that she was Cagalli?

Honestly, we don't know how Orb's political laws are laid out, they where in charge at the time, nothing points towards something else.

The fact that Cagalli was still the Chief representative shows quite clearly that the Seirans didn't officially have more power over her.

Honestly, one can argue what their motto was, but it wasnt the same as Uzumi's, as shown when they signed the treaty to begin with, Other than that, we can speculate what their motto is, but thats a other subject. Bad characters doesnt equal plot holes.

That's not another subject. If there's no evidence to suggest they had their own motto and that it was just as powerful as Uzumi's then you can't prove that's the reason why the treaty happened. I have already made the point that just because the treaty happened, doesn't mean it's for the reasons you said it has. It could easily just be a plot hole, like I keep saying it is.

As we've both agreed on, there is nothing showing how it affected the civilians, the military was clearly under the Seiran's control. As the Murasame's pilot said before he attacked the Minverva.

Then you can't say the 180 degree turn makes any sense. When I said Orb is acting out of character, I meant the civilians too. There was no dissent when there clearly should've been.

No, you've been spewing nonsense for quite some time, that's not making a point.

I'm going to save you the embarrassment and let you off on that rather childish display...

So you can't deny I was making this point before then?

Indeed, seeing how there is no material at all regarding the Orb civilians under the Seirans rule, lets leave it at that.

Nope, lets not. If we have enough material on civilians under Uzumi's rule and since there's no material on civilians under Seiran's rule, I can only conclude that's because there's been no change. Hence, it's out of character.

i understand the point you are trying to make, but it's still nonsense since it doesnt hold up according to what the show has told us.

You've specifically made the point that the show hasn't told us anything...

I swear to God I hope you're not suggesting I'm saying the treaty didn't happen again. Because you now I'm not...

..right?

He didn't, not during the submarine conversation, he mentioned contacting carpentaria to apply pressure on Orb, thats it.

Once again, not going to repeat this entire conversation again for the 19th? time. Athrun was in charge, he was not going to authorize a brute force attack on Orb just because Yzak and Dearka wanted one.

Athrun did not want to make a enemy out of Orb, as he said, in the end it would be a diplomatic matter for their nation (Zaft and Orb).

Athrun also made it very clear that attacking orb wouldnt be like Heliopolis:

TLR?
Athrun: Dearka, we're not going to attack an entire nation because of one ship and one mobile suit.

You're contradicting yourself. Did Athrun mention ZAFT or not?

Yes he did. Athrun was clearly taking into account that ZAFT would have to get involved and "complete annihilation" wasn't the result he said was going to happen, hence why he never said it. Quite the opposite. And the way Athrun was portrayed as the more reasonable and down to earth character, clearly suggests that what he was saying could be taken as exposition.

Agreed, since we have no evidence regarding Orb civilians, lets disregard that. We do know the Seirans had control over the Military (and the government, otherwise the treaty wouldnt have been signed), Was there anything else?

Quoted from the Murasame pilot doing a angry Murasame fist. The country starayed off Uzumi/Orb's path, and are ran by the Seirans, we know there is some change(obviously for the worse) but we don't know all of it.

The fact that Cagalli left, which is the actual reason why they assumed the Seirans were in charge? What about that change?

Because you've either forgotten the show or you are flat out ignoring it. you are sitting there making a statement about a show without having anything to back it up, the few parts you've brought up to strenghten your argument doesn't support it at all. it rather proves it wrong (Like your entire ordeal about Athrun, Zaft's army and your misunderstanding of him saying he was going to use Zaft's full force against Orb). If you want to bring up something up regarding the show, atleast make sure you remember the whole thing so you can quote time and episode if needed.

Just making those accusations won't make it true, which is pretty much what you were doing until you finally got your act together now.

Because you have nothing else except your own opinion to back it up with, please, provide episode/time to back up your statements and i'll gladly rewatch the episode to see if you are right or not, however, you simply stating " its this " without having anything to base it on is flat out silly.

Good thing that's not what I'm doing XP.

You may not actually remember, but the whole reason this debate in the first place started was because you were making claims about the Seirans I didn't believe was true because there was no evidence for it...

i'm sorry, But that's pathetic of you. Me quoting the show equals fan speculations when you use other peoples fanfics/speculations as a source? That comment makes you look like a desperate child who just got his candy taken away.

No, that comment ought to make you realise that just saying my source is unreliable is not even remotely helpful when you have no better alternative to offer. Something that you, unfortunately, still haven't learnt.

You never quoted the show regarding the NJC matter. If you did, then I apologise, but I don't recall you ever quoting the show regarding the supposed ban on NJCs.

[kakakka]

Gundam official is dead, but the archive can still be accessed.

About Neutron Jammer Canceller (Gundam Official archive Feb 14 2012)
http://web.archive.org/web/201202141...jammercanceler

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

...Don't you just love it how we are here talking about MS shoulder signs and other forums talk about how Strike and Freedom been destroyed behind destiny?

If you think badly of people discussing FAITH signs and other personal markings, then discussing wrecked Gundams in the background of a promotional poster is just as bad (if not worse). Why? Read Rising Dragon’s reply to you above.

I myself never view any discussion topic as stupid or something like that as long as it’s reasonable.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Haak

Yeah no kidding. The point is that it's out of character, not that it didn't happen. i don't know how many times I'm going to have to keep saying that...

You are saying it's out of character, i'm saying its not out of character since Orb had a change in leadership, official or not, Cagalli was not calling the shots when she wasnt there, the seirans was

Because they couldn't be sure that Cagalli was actually there. Remember what happened when Orb was being attacked by ZAFT and Yuna, in his desperation, acknowledged that she was Cagalli?

Of course, Yuna out of pure desperation (his country being attacked aswell) said it was the real Cagalli, not to mention he made a pure ass out of himself aswell, if you want a plot hole, the Akatsuki is a pretty big one aswell. The Seirans, or rather Yuna lost control of the situation aswell.

The fact that Cagalli was still the Chief representative shows quite clearly that the Seirans didn't officially have more power over her.

Yet they took charge earlier in the show when she was still in Orb during the Minerva vs Ea battle and the entire Wedding part, they had some kind of advantage over her, that is one of the big plotholes that doesnt add up.

That's not another subject. If there's no evidence to suggest they had their own motto and that it was just as powerful as Uzumi's then you can't prove that's the reason why the treaty happened. I have already made the point that just because the treaty happened, doesn't mean it's for the reasons you said it has. It could easily just be a plot hole, like I keep saying it is.

The treaty obviously happened against Cagalli's will, the Seirans clearly held the upper hand when it came to political power in the parliament/high council around those episodes.

Then you can't say the 180 degree turn makes any sense. When I said Orb is acting out of character, I meant the civilians too. There was no dissent when there clearly should've been.

We can't draw conclusions regarding the civilians feelings when Destiny didn't show us any Orb civilians interacting with eachother regarding the matter, let's agree to disagree when it comes to them. Since we've been shown nothing it's impossible to say if they acted out of character or not, since they have none.

I'm going to save you the embarrassment and let you off on that rather childish display...

like you put up in your earlier post? Get off the high horse, bring some facts instead of opinions.

So you can't deny I was making this point before then?

Already replied to that in my previous post, re-read it, your point held no weight nor substance since you had nothing to back it up with.

Nope, lets not. If we have enough material on civilians under Uzumi's rule and since there's no material on civilians under Seiran's rule, I can only conclude that's because there's been no change. Hence, it's out of character.

one can draw parallels to schrödinger's cat when it comes to the civilians, we don't know how the Seiran rule affected them at all, if it changed or not. as i said, i'm going to leave the civilians out of my next posts since we have no material to discuss their wellbeing or what happened to them during the EA alliance.

You've specifically made the point that the show hasn't told us anything...

about the civilians.

I swear to God I hope you're not suggesting I'm saying the treaty didn't happen again. Because you now I'm not...

..right?

when did i ever say that you denied the treaty existing? don't make things up.

You're contradicting yourself. Did Athrun mention ZAFT or not?

Yes he did. Athrun was clearly taking into account that ZAFT would have to get involved and "complete annihilation" wasn't the result he said was going to happen, hence why he never said it. Quite the opposite. And the way Athrun was portrayed as the more reasonable and down to earth character, clearly suggests that what he was saying could be taken as exposition.

Sorry, Zaft is their military, he meant a diplomatic matter for their nation (Plant). I had a name mixup there, my apologies.

The fact that Cagalli left, which is the actual reason why they assumed the Seirans were in charge? What about that change?

Cagalli didn't really leave on her own free will, seeing how her brother showed up in a mobile suit, kidnapped her and took her to the Arch Angel just to stop the wedding.

Well, one can assume this:
Officially, Cagalli was the chief representative, but the Seiran's had more power political power inside the parliament/high council, enough to force Cagalli into a arranged marriage of some sort, seeing how they already had enough power to make calls with the military around the time the Minerva left.

Just making those accusations won't make it true, which is pretty much what you were doing until you finally got your act together now.

Yet you still havent provided a single source to support your own claims, its time to get your own act together.

You may not actually remember, but the whole reason this debate in the first place started was because you were making claims about the Seirans I didn't believe was true because there was no evidence for it...

i've provided you sources from the show, you've provided your opinion, while you are entitled to your own opinion, you can't act like it's fact " just because " you feel it is.

No, that comment ought to make you realise that just saying my source is unreliable is not even remotely helpful when you have no better alternative to offer. Something that you, unfortunately, still haven't learnt.

Excuse me? as i've said in my previous posts, provide me with the episode number and/or time and i'll look it up to make sure your claim is correct, if it is, i stand corrected. i won't flat out deny things the show state unlike you. The show is always the best alternative. I've provided sources, you haven't.

Once again, get off your high horse, you havent provided a single source for any of your claims, yet you act like you are right about everything, it's time to stop being all talk and actually provide some sources from your own claims.

You never quoted the show regarding the NJC matter. If you did, then I apologise, but I don't recall you ever quoting the show regarding the supposed ban on NJCs.

Seeing how you havent provided any source for your claims, and the only source you've provided in your arguments is the wikia it's pretty safe to assume you are the one making wild fan speculations.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Haak

That's very helpful to me considering GundamOfficial's site is dead, so I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're pulling that out of your arse. If you have any objections to that, then feel free to give me an actual source next time...

http://web.archive.org/web/201205300...l#juniustreaty

Does the Junius Treaty prohibit obtaining the NJC altogether?

The question is, how would Orb obtain an NJC?

No, the point you made was that the EA didn't care about the consequences. Stop playing semantics.

MAD not being a factor because they've already gone past that point, does not prove that the EA doesn't care about MAD at all. Thus MAD can still be a factor against Orb.

MAD was never a factor.

Yzak's mother very clearly talked about EA planning on using more nuclear weapons to encourage the nation to destroy EA before they could. ZAFT obviously knew the EA would try and launch more strikes, but they very clearly did not see that particular strike coming so soon. Please don't quote Yzak's mother's speech out of context. Just because she mentions nuclear strikes coming in the future, does not mean she knew that strike would happen so soon. Everything points to them being surprised by it.

The point of promising not to let anymore nuclear weapon be used against them is to be ready to defend the PLANTs at any time, not just in some future attack.

But not in this case, as I have already explained. Given what other plans they had it seems very clear that experimenting with nuclear weapons again is the most reasonable thing to do. Assuming they don't care about MAD of course...



Episode 9 after the stampeder has been used:

"The Stampeder's quantum fresnels have melted and activated the breaker. The system has now stopped functioning"

"I'm glad the Stampeder just made it in time"

"But it'll only work once. They'll know better the next time"

Phase 11 showed that it was a shock to them at seeing their entire nuclear force eliminated in an instant. So much so that, when pressured by the other members of LOGOS, Djibril decided to come up with another way of destroying the PLANTs. Obviously they didn't think nuclear weapons are good enough to do the job any longer.

And why would they want to do that, pray tell? It seems very obvious they made it a last resort in case the EA were capable of nuclear strikes or something similar again.

It seems very obvious that Zala was intent on destroying the EA.

And Orb were already in battle hence why they needed to regroup. That's not going to be the case in this situation. The EA have no reason to believe they can get to Orb's mass driver before Orb can. It's just not logically possible.

And if you're making a point about experience, then their experience tells them they won't get the Mass Driver. The differentiation shouldn't matter right?

Still, if they ever need a mass driver, Orb's mass driver will always be an option.

The Destroys clearly didn't prove to be enough and even then they could have used nuclear weapons. There is absoutely nothing in the show to suggest they used the Destroys out of efficiency over nuclear weapons and if you're using the point that the EA want to rebuild and repopulate then you also have to accept that the EA cares about the consequences of MAD.

No, it just means that the EA cares about the consequences of nuclear explosions on Earth.

You've also once again inadvertently proven that EA wouldn't want to use nuclear weapons on Orb.

But it won't be out of fear of MAD.

And where would they have that perspective from?

Experience.

That one that they got is only useful if they get the other two and they didn't so that one that they got is completely useless to them. And the fate remains that Orb was still able to hide whatever it wants from the EA. It didn't need Freedom and Justice to do that.

Irrelevant. The conversation between Azrael and Sutherland still showed that they still believe they had a chance. So, like I said, if they ever need something Orb again, attacking Orb would still be an option.

So you're moving the goal posts then?

Just to be clear you said my point that Orb would not reverse it's ideals so easily would be valid if Orb didn't think they could deter EA from an imminent threat.

To me the idea that they would completely change their ideals fro something that isn't even an imminent threat is not something I care to even argue about.

It may not be imminent, but the fact that it happened mere 2 years after the first conflict over similar reasons and with the same parties could not escape Orb. Even if it's not imminent, it's highly likely to happen again as history seems to be repeating itself.

1. And as I have pointed out just because Orb can't gaurentee it (you can't guarantee anything), doesn't mean they're going to automatically believe it will happen. The only reason they would is if they have a perspective that's preventing them and that's ciruclar logic because you said it's their reasons against detterence that's what lead them to their perspective, not the other way around.

2. And once again, experience isn't going to be the only thing for them to go on unless they have that perspective which you can't assume they would.

So let me ask again: which one is it?

It's both.

The reason you think it's circular logic is probably because you're mixing two different experiences that I'm talking about.

The first experience is that Orb saw how the EA found itself needing a mass driver in the course of the war, which is something that Orb happened to have. This would lead to the perspective that Orb is a valuable nation.

The second experience is that Orb also saw how the EA attacked Orb even though Orb was considered a powerful nation in SEED. This would lead to another perspective that Orb could not deter an attack from the EA when they want something from Orb.

Thus, given the two perspectives, the Seirans proposed joining the EA as a preemptive move so that the EA won't attack Orb.

Now, it's true that Orb also has the experience that it was freed again after the war ended. But it was at a cost, and obviously the people who sided with the Seirans didn't think the cost was worth risking another attack.

No, since as i pointed out, Orb risked the rest of ZAFT getting involved and you didn't deny that.

No, because as I said, ZAFT was there for the Archangel, not for Orb.

There's a chance that the rest of ZAFT won't get involved over 1 ship. But when the EA fleet itself came for Orb itself, that's a different story altogether. And it showed: While Athrun's 1 ship did not attack, the EA fleet did attack.

So clearly deterring a ZAFT ship who was not there for Orb doesn't mean that Orb could deter an EA fleet. In fact, Yuna proved in Destiny that Orb can't deter an attack even from ZAFT when ZAFT actually had a reason to go after Orb.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by monster

So clearly deterring a ZAFT ship who was not there for Orb doesn't mean that Orb could deter an EA fleet. In fact, Yuna proved in Destiny that Orb can't deter an attack even from ZAFT when ZAFT actually had a reason to go after Orb.

In Orb's defense, Yuna didn't even scramble the defense force after Zaft made their demands, hell, he didn't do anything until Zaft forces were running wild inside Orb territory.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by monster

Okay, on closer look, the red seems to be part of the Aile stiker pack. But at first glance, it looks like a BuCUE to me. So what is that yellow dot?

Im quite certain that the yellow is the forehead camera, I swear it was yellow when active

You can also see the distinct Strike shoulders


As a random more pleasant off topic question to everyone:

What are the top 10 scenes in the DESTINY remaster are you looking forward to? (Assuming the scene gets the remastered treatment)

For me:
1. Sword Impulse debut in Episode 1
2. Fall of Junius Seven and the beautiful music that accompanied that beautiful scene of destruction
3. Kira crashing his sister's wedding in a WMD (YOLO)
4. Heine being a badass in a Gouf
5. Destroy battle in Berlin
6. Freedom getting destroyed (haters gonna hate, cant wait for that scene to air again and watch the fighting among the fans that ensues, gonna be quite the show XD)
7. Strike Freedom debut (TM Revolution: Vestige FTW!)
8. The debut of the Akatsuki (I love that scene, especially the song that started with the suits activation)
9. Gouf crashing on Yuna (trullz, any bets it gets remastered? Im going to laugh so hard if it did)
10. Final Battle (probably gonna be all remastered clip repeats from the Orb battle, oh the irony XD, I mainly want to see if the change stuff, like DAMAGE the SF for gods sake)