2009-10-24, 19:14
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Link #3941 | |
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Are you a lolicon? :3
Join Date: Aug 2009
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HERE WE GOOO!! ALL ABOARD THE FAIL TRAIN!!
>then please, explained to me "logically" HOW THE HELL DOES ATHENA and ISUMI know magic? >However, in the un-realistic world of manga, something illogical CAN OCCURRED NATURALLY. Like magic, Hayate's indestructible body, the Royal Garden. Brb 10 years, looking for post office to send letter. ~ Quote:
A F/S Night reference? It's a parody manga... Perhaps he was an old hero, that did many good deeds, but fell to corruption, or was somehow influenced to do some bad things. We don't have enough info. |
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2009-10-24, 19:22
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Link #3943 | |
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*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Sorry, but you sentence really made me boiled. Honestly, it was really sad (literally) coming from you. |
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2009-10-24, 19:29
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Link #3944 | ||
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Are you a lolicon? :3
Join Date: Aug 2009
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2009-10-24, 19:40
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Link #3945 | |
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*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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As I stated: "However, in the un-realistic world of manga, something illogical CAN OCCURRED NATURALLY. Like magic, Hayate's indestructible body, the Royal Garden." Edit: I don't think I can get more specific than this. If you still don't understand, then I'm a failure as a person. Last edited by zodanhko; 2009-10-24 at 19:52. |
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2009-10-24, 20:00
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Link #3946 | |
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Are you a lolicon? :3
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Quote:
 Ohkayyyy, so.... Then by your words "However, in the un-realistic world of manga, something illogical CAN OCCURRED NATURALLY", shall I take it as a fact that Athena is stupid? Since it's "natural" that she can't find him with the solution that I provided in 10 years. I didn't want to think of it that way... Well, it is Hata that does the manga. I guess he screwed up. He's one man that has to make up many different characters and their personalities. But this isn't something little... She's portrayed as a very strong, beautiful, and above all else intelligent woman. Besides all these traits, she's also very rich. I don't see how's it possible not to find him. That's all I'm asking. Tell me in an illogical way how she failed to do so. Either way you'll admit that she failed. |
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2009-10-24, 20:16
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Link #3947 | |
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*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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-----However, if you said she "Naturall" can't find him, it is more reasonable to assume that fate was in their way. Honestly, don't compare Athena's intelligence to you. When something "illogical" can natural occur, that means it can happen regardless of what you, yes you, Rah, think. Since it is already, from reality, illogical, there was NO NEED to explain how it happened. If Hata WANTED that way, then it is that way. If he wants to make something illogical into logical, than it is that way. If he made Athena thinks that way, Athena thinks that way. No matter how buttshit or irrational you think it is, your thoughts are irrelevant when COMPARE to Hata's fact. For some reasons she can not find even with her wealth and intelligence which is unthinkable. I don't know how it happened, but since Hata said so, it is unarguably true. |
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2009-10-24, 20:23
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Link #3948 |
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Are you a lolicon? :3
Join Date: Aug 2009
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So basically you're saying that whatever happens, if we understand it or not, it happened because. And just because. There's nothing behind it, there's nothing to explain. And Athena still is awesome.
Okay... lol ~Edit: I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT! I understand everything now! Midas is possessing Athena because. Hayate will end up with Nagi because. They can time travel and use magic because. I could keep on going, but three examples are enough. It's just because, guys! Get it? There's nothing to discuss. There never was! Oh man, this manga is awesome! |
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2009-10-24, 20:27
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Link #3949 |
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Just some guy
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Antonio, TX
Age: 62
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Any chance that further discussion on Logical/Illogical/Magic could be taken to PM?
My own .02 on the overall subject is that the only rules a Manga (or other) author needs to follow are those that they have setup in their writing. In other words, if you setup a universe that has magic and spirits, and you say you always have to wave a wet noodle first - then as long as you wave a wet noodle first any other strange thing you do is up to the author's "artistic license". When an author has always said you have to wave a wet noodle first, and then at some point they no longer seem to need to do so, you can either assume the author is crazy, or perhaps that they are introducing a mystery to be solved. As long as they EVENTUALLY explain why the rules changed, then they are due the benefit of the doubt. Any time you read a work of fiction, one of the primary requirements is that the work is internally consistent enough for your to "suspend your disbelief". In my online novel I introduce the concept of Native American shaman having been possessed by animalistic spirits. I then have to explain how they come into my story, and why it's reasonable for it to happen - as well as why it can't be a permanent change. I think Hata has introduced enough uncertainty to this point that there are several reasonable explanations that might be given for what's going on. We just have to wait and see what we are given. At that point it might THEN be worth discussing whether it was done well or not. My .02 worth, obviously... 
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2009-10-24, 20:27
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Link #3950 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hitman League
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How about we just say its a mistake on Hata's part. He obviously couldn't make Athena find Hayate, otherwise we wouldn't have the story we have now. He portrayed Athena as a character who was still in love with Hayate after 10 years. Hata couldn't just write "I'll save him from his parents" without even making Athena look for Hayate in the first place so he wrote "I've been searching for him". However, this created plot holes since it contradicts Athena's abilities and resources.
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2009-10-24, 20:38
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Link #3951 | |
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My posts are frivolous
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 35
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I prefer
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2009-10-24, 20:43
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Link #3952 | ||
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Are you a lolicon? :3
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Umm... This "waiting for Hata to explain things" part kinda bothers me, though. Is it gonna take long? Damn, I'm forgetting that this is HnG, and that it might revert back into something silly at any time! He might indeed go with something silly as the truth behind her searching for him. Okay. It's not a direct fault of hers. Some external factor / fate / misfortune, whatever... influenced it into how it is now. For example, this overly used situation: There's a fork in the road. Hayate takes the left turn, while Athena (or her search party, whatever..) are coming from the right side. Something similar happens every time. Just when they're about to meet he gets in one of his "situations", and they miss each other again... Man, I don't like that. I wished it was better. MANY people picked up HnG again, because things are finally getting interesting (long arcs, mysteries, deeper character development, ...). Including myself. I thought that HnG was a fairly interesting manga and anime (1st season). Then I got through the Izumi & EoTW arcs, and it pulled me in. It's A LOT better than just random "standalone" chapters without any deeper meaning. I guess... that's why I'm expecting a decent conclusion to every little thing (I'm overly obsessed with details xD), and I'm just not satisfied with a random answer. It has to make sense. Hata needs to explain things properly. Now, this is still about her not being able to find him over the long period that is 10 years. Yeah, that's really irritating. I want it to be LOGICAL. Why wouldn't it be? Why is this part exempt from reason? Everything fits together like shoe on foot, but this more like a shoe on head. Hahaha! Ah, I better not add more references from that site... Edit~ Quote:
No matter how much I dislike that, this won't take us anywhere. Couldn't he just write that she didn't search for him, but that he was always in her thoughts? That she was afraid to face him? Or an example why she couldn't find him no matter what, based on her abilities, funds, .... Kay, nuff of this. This chapter ends in a stalemate between Athena and Isumin'. It's entitled "Strongest vs Invincible". I take that Athena (Midas) is the invincible one, and Isumi is the strongest one. No matter how strong, though, you can't beat something that's invincible. Unless, there's gonna be a lack of logic again, but I wont go there.. haha! I'll go with this scenario: Athena dominates them completely. In the end she takes the gem, has an "internal talk" with Midas, as he's about to finish them. He stops, because she's fiercely resisting him, and he's taken the gem already anyway, so there's no point. They (Athena & Midas) leave. Hayate carries a beaten Isumin' back to Nagi's, or it's the other way around (if he protects her), but I don't see how she'll manage to carry him... After that I don't know... Does anyone else have a scenario to add? |
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2009-10-24, 20:45
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Link #3953 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Man, you all discuss about something that's obvious...
Why does the alphabet is like that? BECAUSE they did so...(it's a example)... you should just accept it like they made... there's no WHY... just BECAUSE... Athena for sure looked for Hayate, but if she found him or no is BECAUSE something probably happened... isn't because of resources or "magic"... And why does Isumi and Athena have powers?? Because Hata make them to have...just accept it... |
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2009-10-24, 20:49
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Link #3954 | |
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*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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No, it may be illogical to think about it realistically, but it is true and can be logical if Hata made that way in his non-realistic world of manga. It has no affect on the plots; Hata can easily just said "she hasn't look for him." But he didn't, so? Please think... There was no reason for me to explain to you "illogically" how it happened because I was already thought it was "illogical" from the beginning from real life perspective. Yes, Athena is awesome. What about it? |
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2009-10-24, 20:51
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Link #3955 | |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hitman League
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Like I said before, Hata made a mistake just saying Athena tried to search for him for 10 years. Hata obviously couldn't make her find him, otherwise we wouldn't have this story. What he wrote contradicted Athena's resources and now he has to come up with something that makes sense for Athena to miss finding Hayate for 10 years. For a long running series, chances are one or two mistakes can pop up.
Edit: Sorry Rah, didn't see you reply there. Quote:
Last edited by Koroshiya_Kame_13; 2009-10-24 at 21:07. |
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2009-10-24, 20:58
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Link #3956 | |
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Are you a lolicon? :3
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Yeah, you're clueless. You and your crazy logic and realism, and then contradictions with "mangas are illogical" yeah, yeah.. I'm wasting my time.
Hata messed up, or he'll explain in detail. I already said this, but I'll repeat it anyway. Athena is filthy rich. - Fact Athena is very intelligent. - Fact Athena had 10 years time to find him. - Fact Athena didn't find him with the above means on her disposal. - Fact Am I wrong to label her retarded? Okay, it's plot related. They couldn't have met, because that would screw up the current development. I'll accept that. Fine. But that doesn't mean that I like it. With all those facts to mess up like that... *sigh* Oh, well.. Details, right? Haha!  Edit~ Quote:
Yeah, plot related. It's really lame... But since it's a fact that she was searching for him, but couldn't find him regardless of the means on her disposal, I'd like to know precisely why. That's whats bothering me so. I... just can't accept a "because", or "plot".... ^_^ Sorry... hehe Edit2~ Lol at my English. Heavily contradicted myself by spelling something wrong. Haha, jeez! |
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2009-10-24, 21:04
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Link #3957 |
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hitman League
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Yeah, especially since HnG is a long series and with the current arc which Hata wants to make exciting, one or two plot holes are bound to pop up. A mangaka's life is pretty hard, having to deal with deadlines and writer's block.
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2009-10-24, 21:14
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Link #3959 | ||
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*ignoring*
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Please, do not take words out of my mouth if you still do not understand. Quote:
If Athena is really a retard, I dare to say that EVERYONE in HnG is equal to or below the level of retards. And you and I are unquestionably even lower than insects compare to their "retarded" minds in term of intelligence. Edit: No more serious insults toward Athena. 
Last edited by zodanhko; 2009-10-24 at 21:29. |
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2009-10-24, 21:27
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Link #3960 | |
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My posts are frivolous
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 35
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Quote:
 The way I see it, there's a difference between events being illogical and characters being illogical. It is inevitable in pretty much any story for events to start out illogical. Hayate being extremely unlucky is one such example. What's the probability of all those unlikely events happening to the same person? Practically nil, but such illogic is acceptable, since it's part of the world that Hata created right from the start. Of course, once this world has been fleshed out, future events should fall within the boundaries defined at the beginning, but I'll leave it at that since it's not really an issue here. Characters, and I'm referring specifically to their natures, such as how they react, how they behave and so on, should be consistent. We're not talking about particles of matter that follow Brownian motion after all, we're talking about people, or in some cases, characters being personified. People don't do things randomly just because, unless that's the way the character is designed. Besides that, there should be a logical explanation for their actions that can be tied back to what we know about them. This, I believe, is where Rah's point was completely missed. It is illogical for Isumi and co. to know magic. No problem with that since it's part of the story as introduced from the beginning. On the other hand, for Athena not to be able to find Hayate given her resources and ability to use them goes against what we know of her character. If we're going to assume that Athena has not changed from what we know of her, ie: she is rich and intelligent, then the only reason for her not having found Hayate is that something else occurred. Rah suggested that she did not really search for him. I don't think that's the case, but I have no way of disproving the claim since Hata has not given any explanation thus far. Rah also gave the other possibility that Athena is retarded. I don't think that's true either, but if Hata just leaves this matter up in the air without explaining, then we'll never know. Last edited by frivolity; 2009-10-24 at 21:38. Reason: grammar |
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