2011-07-30, 22:26 | Link #23461 | |||
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Yasu has three, if not four people s/he cares about. In his narratives he splits his/her one "soul" into three (or four depending if you see Battler's and Maria's Beatrice as two people) and let's them act independently. It's implied and said again and again that what we read is never the actual truth but interpretations of possible truth(s). How is it a copout if there are fictional beings in a fictional story? Is Kinzô in the first four Episodes a copout as well? I would like to actually argue against you, it's not that I'm wriggling around certain points on purpose. It's just that I fail to see why exactly this answer is a copout. Quote:
Wouldn't it be quite hilarious if there was actually Yasu in disguise breaking into Jessica's room and arguing with him/herself wether or not to kill Jessica? Of course not without crazily throwing paper weights around and in the end ramming one of those into her own chest because she has defeated himself... Why does everything have to be as it was portrayed in the stories to be "not a copout" or "fair" for certain people? Quote:
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2011-07-30, 22:53 | Link #23462 |
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Well, the question at hand is whether Ryukishi, the author, agrees that's what it is. I'm not 100% convinced that's how he sees it, but he clearly doesn't see it as something vastly different based on the language he uses. If so, he would probably have described it as something that couldn't be so confused with Fakey Fictional MPD.
Our opinions as to what the text appears to support are different (possibly, anyway) from what the author says he meant. You can draw your own conclusions from there, but it doesn't change the conclusion of the author... whatever that happens to be. I'm not sure myself right now though. I'd like to ask him pointedly, but I don't think he'd answer a question of that nature directly.
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2011-07-30, 23:45 | Link #23463 | ||||||
The True Culprit
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There is nothing wrong with fictional beings. That's not even relevant. My problem is with Yasu being apparently defined by Ryukishi not as an emotionally conflicted person but as three persons in one body who all have an unshakable resolve to their personal goals, creating an internal interpersonal struggle, and that's what his language in his most recent interview means. Either this is what he thinks, or he is such a poor public speaker that he's still just as idiotic. Quote:
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2011-07-31, 00:41 | Link #23464 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2011-07-31, 00:42 | Link #23465 | |
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2011-07-31, 02:12 | Link #23466 |
The True Culprit
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It's also not falsifiable. "No, no, no, the other didn't MEAN to create a giant clusterfuck of a plothole in his magnum opus! It's...like....ironic, dude. It's a metaphor for our....inability to cope with...like....the truth of society, you know, man?"
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2011-07-31, 02:27 | Link #23467 | |||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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Random new topic: Is it just me or does no one consider the possibility that it actually was Maria herself who locked/unlocked the chapel in the EP2 chapel closed room puzzle? |
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2011-07-31, 02:42 | Link #23469 | |
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Exactly which parts of Umineko were planned from the start is another matter entirely. Cynically, part of me thinks it's like: Spoiler:
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2011-07-31, 03:37 | Link #23471 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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Starting when Maria's key was received, and until the instant Rosa unsealed it the next day, it passed through no one's hands!! I had been thinking that it indicated no one else's hands. So yeah, rereading this makes Maria's use of the key much less feasible. Honestly, I'm kinda disappointed because I liked the idea of Maria's involvement here, especially with the "Happy Halloween for Maria" scribble. Still, the wording is suspicious. Why not instead of saying "it passed through no one's hands" say "it never left the envelope"? |
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2011-07-31, 05:14 | Link #23472 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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In the case of the latter I see it more like this: If you have no love for the author, you'll doubt anything he throws at you and dismiss the parts you don't like as red herrings, traps, tricks or whatever. If you have no love for the characters you ignore their personalities, relationships and such to make theories that please you the most. Distrusting the author (like the popular saying Red is all lies) and ignoring character traits and such only eliminates all evidence and locks you in a game of your own. |
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2011-07-31, 05:16 | Link #23473 | |||||
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Yes, at the point of EP2 Shannon absolutely wanted to be with George, Kanon absolutely wanted to protect Jessica and Beatrice absolutely wanted them apart, but that just combines to Yasu not being sure into which direction s/he should go. Quote:
Of course these individual wishes are presented as full grown characters in the stories written in the narrative, but that does not mean that they have to be fully grown personalities within her. Even Yasu's past in EP7 is presented to us through that worldview. Will says it himself, he could have forced Shannon to tell the truth in that moment in the church, but it would have made a stale victory. It's more like part of the illusion is kept intact to keep us guessing. Yes, Yasu created those characters to keep her company, but that doesn't make them personalities in a medical sense either. Would you say a child has MPD when she has an invisible friend? Or that a person living alone and talking to him/herself has MPD? It's just something you do because you're lonely. And Yasu gave those individual feelings she had to the individual characters in her narrative...but I just don't see why that immediatly implies those characters being full fledged personalities. Or maybe I'm the real life Yasu for being able to understand many of those actions... It's really not that difficult to create different personas for different actions and each of those getting different goals along the way...even without them doing anything you don't want. Quote:
The theme is that through love you are able to conquer even the most horrible reality, but at the same time hiding away reality can hurt people just as much. Another theme is that any notion of truth is subjective, because truth only exists in the very moment something happens and is distorted immediatly afterwards by emotions, memories, intentions and so on. What exactly changes about Yasu's characterization if it is all just an inner conflict? Because I don't see it as a conflict of personalities... Quote:
Spoiler for Higurashi:
Yasu is the 犯人 because she set everything in motion, created the plan, provided the weapons...but she does not actually have to have killed anybody. |
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2011-07-31, 05:17 | Link #23474 | ||
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Here's a copy paste Quote:
Now with EP7 Will's denaument points that the most likely option was that it was never locked , which in my scenario incriminates Rosa. Now my problem lies with the mentioning of the "Golden Truth" in that particular scene when as far as I remember this wasnt used on the other ones. What made this particular case worthy of it and not the others? e- Sorry AT I forgot to answer you. I miss typed it, its not BPE but rather BPD. Borderline Personality Disorder. It works to explain Yasu but it really doesnt explain convenient red dodging. Which is what is at issue with us that have problems with the whole Yasu thing. Last edited by Cao Ni Ma; 2011-07-31 at 08:04. |
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2011-07-31, 07:50 | Link #23475 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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Hagu who wrote the forgery detection thing? Was it Keiya or was it RK07? Maybe a collaboration of both? Also I remember you mentioning Keiya's book and also remember reading some of his old interviews. What where the key words he kept alluding to whilst reading the novels? The words that kept being repeated.
If you have read his book, could you tell us some of his theories? |
2011-07-31, 09:24 | Link #23476 | |||
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I have to search for direct paragraphs to show what points they were both alluding to. Quote:
I think I will post some of his ideas along the way or on my blog... If you have a definite question about his theory concerning a specific event, ask away... |
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2011-07-31, 14:18 | Link #23478 | |
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I don't think your boyfriend would approve of that.
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Unless she's actually Beatrice or Maria or something, then that would be a pretty good reason why not. Or his Stake of Purgatory can't gouge anymore, if you follow me.
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2011-07-31, 14:44 | Link #23480 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Well there is this part that totally seems to suggest that Ikuko and Tohya are an item.
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Anyway Renall has a point, I wonder how much crippled he is, his body might be even less "fit to love" than Yasu's, if you know what I mean... I wonder if Tohya really is Ikuko's lover rather than... her house pet. I mean... she literally found him on a street and brought him home without even knowing where he came from.
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