[Manga] Chapter 240 Discussion

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Animizzle

That is definitley a new way to look at it, tho im not quite sure of what you said.

Rin specifically said: Sensei's shunshin no jutsu.
Would't that mean it's: his Jutsu. enhancement or not, if it's different from the original it's a new Jutsu,
Bunshin No Jutsu and Kage Bunshin no Jutsu resemble each other yet are 2 totally different things.
If we take your word that it's the teleportation the jounins always perform, but you yourself admit that he is insanly good at it, appareantly to the extent that it even got it's own new name Then why would't it be a new Jutsu?

Besides, we barely saw what actually happend, from the looks of it he used a clone in his attack...Anyway.. to bluntly compare it to the jounins teleportation seems a bit rash to me...

Hmm no that doesn't mean that or rather there is no particular reason to this meaning, if I say Sasuke's Katon jutsu is so good that doesn't mean that Sasuke is the only one able to do a Katon, just that he's good at that.
I mean indeed Rin said sensei's shunshin no jutsu given that she was speaking of him.
Actually if Yondaime was the only one able to do this jutsu then there is no point to precise sensei's shunshin no jutsu.

Yondaime's use of this jutsu is obviously incredibly great, hence the nickname, but as good as you're at using a jutsu that doesn't become a new jutsu.
Both Naruto and the 4th use(d) the Rasengan however Naruto is far from Yondaime's (or Jiraiya's) control and level over this jutsu, but it's still the Rasengan.

[Alchemist]

No offense, but do you people READ the manga or just skim it and fill the rest with your imagination?

you != kishimoto.

What he sets in the narutoverse is true whether you like it or not. And it's really not that hard to make basic conclusions from the manga. -__-

Originally Posted by Hunter

It's not really a new jutsu, it's one of the of the most known folkloric ninja ability along with the Henge or the Kawarimi.
That's also the same technique often used by Shihouin Yoruichi, Byakuya or Soi Fon in Bleach for example.
I don't see it as a new jutsu in Naruto either btw, it's merely the jutsu that most of the Jounins use to suddenly disappear and reappear somewhere else with ease all the time.
Yondaime just seems to be insanely good at it.

Are you kidding? Jounins do it all the time? That's just their speed and that's it. They don't teleport. Otherwise we would've known about this jutsu. Also, yondaime's jutsu has its own name and apparently gave him his nickname-- surely he wouldn't be that famous for it if EVERYBODY could do it? Also, he can't be faster or better at it than other jounins because this is a teleportation jutsu-- you can't be faster. you disappear and reappear in another place in a flash. That's it.

If other jounins know this we would’ve seen them use it during fights and it being explained like kage-bunchsin, kawarimi, etc...


strategos:

Yondaime used a SEAL to mark where he's going. As much you would love to believe he can go wherever he wants like in dbz it's just not true just like naruto and sasuke can't throw their rasengan/chidor and use them a hundred times like in dbz. It would make it extremely cheap and the characters way too powerful.

[Alchemist]

Originally Posted by Animizzle

Besides, we barely saw what actually happend, from the looks of it he used a clone in his attack...

Yeah it makes more sense if that seal on the rock nin's foot is a mark for a kage-bunshin to show up... I have a feeling we'll get to know the secrets behind this jutsu in the first naruto fight after his training...

[Animizzle]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Hmm no that doesn't mean that or rather there is no particular reason to this meaning, if I say Sasuke's Katon jutsu is so good that doesn't mean that Sasuke is the only one able to do a Katon, just that he's good at that.
I mean indeed Rin said sensei's shunshin no jutsu given that she was speaking of him.
Actually if Yondaime was the only one able to do this jutsu then there is no point to precise sensei's shunshin no jutsu.
Yondaime's use of this jutsu is obviously incredibly great, hence the nickname, but as good as you're at using a jutsu that doesn't become a new jutsu.
Both Naruto and the 4th use(d) the Rasengan however Naruto is far from Yondaime's (or Jiraiya's) control and level over this jutsu, but it's still the Rasengan.

But here's the thing, you don't know if it's the same Jutsu.
We saw the 4th using a seal on the left foot of the rock-nin. By doing this it's already different from the teleportation the jounins use, or would you say that jounins just put up seals everywhere as waypoint just in case they are ordered to go there? that is, even IF the seal is used as a waypoint, which seems the case but I don't know for sure, nor do you.

Secondly, If something is called his Jutsu, it doens't mean he is extremely good at particulair already existing Jutsu, no, it's a different Jutsu.
To use your Katon example:
If Sasuke was extremely good at goukakyuu, as you deem the yondaime to be at this teleportation thing, Then you would't call the Goukakyuu Sasuke's Jutsu now would you?

[strategos]

Originally Posted by Kayess

The funny thing I find is that everyone assumes it is a direct steal off of DBZ just because Yondaime has a teleporting technique.. Yeah... Heaven forbid that the creator got the idea of teleportation from somewhere else... I highly doubt that DBZ was the first story to have teleportation. In DBZ it wasn't even used in fights... beyond to actually move the fight somewhere else. In Naruto, however, it seems to be a technique for both offense and defense.... I do not see it as a direct comparason.

That technique was used in Battle in DBZ too. Remember the movie when Cooler, for some kind of reason, revive. They both used Instant movement for Batteling. If u dont remember, go some torrent page and dowload the movie and see it for ur self ^_^.
Many things resemble DB. The guy says in every interview that Toriyama is his GOD. He has a Toriyama-Shrine with the candles and everything :
*The Sound Ninja are Equal to the Ginyu Force, the only thing they dont have is that stupid pose
*Orochimaru<Michael Jackson> Is quite similar to Freeza. Freeza had a gay voive just like Oro. Freeza wanted more and more power just like Oro. Freeza had his planet with soldiers and an Elite force (Ginyu Force). Oro have a country with soldiers and an Elite Force(SOund Ninja)
*DB revives people. We have seen people been revive in Naruto.
*Rasengan is quite similar to Kamehameha, the only thing left is to move like a beam wave.
*Chidori is similar to Vegeta Big Bang Attack. Vegeta uses one han and the other to hold the one that hold the enegy. The last thing it need is to be a wave beam.
*Now the coolest technique of the 4th, the reason why they called him the Golden... is his transportation technique. It seems when he got to save Kakashi he put some kind of symbol on the stone soldier then he transported to the stone ninja location. This technique is quite similar to Goku Instant movement.

Is true that Naruto is way different that DB, but it uses as bases or homepoint many ideas from Db to get his techniques or few parts of the story. But most of the Story plot he got it from Japaness mythology. Akatsuki was an organization in the ancient japan, and had some kind of headbands with a scrath on it or somethin similiar.

Naruto is not equally similar to DB, DBZ, or DBGT but it has many things that resembles it.
Besides Naruto have the best Character that Db never had, that is: Shikamaru<aka SHIKAGUYVER>

[Nine Devil]

Originally Posted by Alchemist

No offense, but do you people READ the manga or just skim it and fill the rest with your imagination?

you != kishimoto.

What he sets in the narutoverse is true whether you like it or not. And it's really not that hard to make basic conclusions from the manga. -__-

I will use this to:

Are you kidding? Jounins do it all the time? That's just their speed and that's it. They don't teleport. Otherwise we would've known about this jutsu. Also, yondaime's jutsu has its own name and apparently gave him his nickname-- surely he wouldn't be that famous for it if EVERYBODY could do it? Also, he can't be faster or better at it than other jounins because this is a teleportation jutsu-- you can't be faster. you disappear and reappear in another place in a flash. That's it.

If other jounins know this we would’ve seen them use it during fights and it being explained like kage-bunchsin, kawarimi, etc...

Say this: Are you

Spoiler:

Fucking!

reading the post you quoted?

[Alchemist]

Originally Posted by Nine Devil

I will use this to:

Say this: Are you

Spoiler:

Fucking!

reading the post you quoted?

WOW. That was just a magnificent argument right there. I'm speechless.

[Nine Devil]

Originally Posted by Alchemist

WOW. That was just a magnificent argument right there. I'm speechless.

Wtf are you talking about what argument?

Geez no need to discuss this with you.

[ssjian1]

Originally Posted by AkatsukisApprentice

Yeah but that's an acceptable limit, but unlike DBZ it does not take 3 episodes of looking constipated

That's a common stereotype...

Doesn't actually take 3 whole episodes of powering up to see some action in DBZ.

[Animizzle]

Originally Posted by Nine Devil

Wtf are you talking about what argument?

Geez no need to discuss this with you.

You understand the meaning of sarcasm nine devil?

He meant that if you are going to call him a fucking nut, at least tell him why you think that.

good luck!

[Genei Killua]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I don't see it as a new jutsu in Naruto either btw, it's merely the jutsu that most of the Jounins use to suddenly disappear and reappear somewhere else with ease all the time.

That is quite clearly completely wrong. Whenever the jounin's 'disappear' and 'reappear' there are a few lines denoting speediness, and that's it. Nothing else. When the Yondaime does it, there are poofs of smoke denoting a jutsu. Clearly they are different abilities.

Every single jutsu that is related to the 4th is always said to be the 4th's jutsu. Tsunade said that it was the 4th's rasengan, Orochimaru called the deathgod technique the 4th's, as did the 3rd. The shunshin no jutsu fits this pattern, as the 4th is known by the techniques that he created, and each one of them is called his.

Moreover, it should be obvious that the author wouldn't demean the 4th by making him renowned for having mastered a really basic technique. It's standard shounen practice in such a situation to give new and cool techniques to a hero.

[Nine Devil]

Originally Posted by Animizzle

You understand the meaning of sarcasm nine devil?

He meant that if you are going to call him a fucking nut, at least tell him why you think that.

good luck!

Hmm, I did not intend to call him 'nut' or whatever

The answer is within the post he quoted.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Animizzle

But here's the thing, you don't know if it's the same Jutsu.
[...]
Secondly, If something is called his Jutsu, it doens't mean he is extremely good at particulair already existing Jutsu, no, it's a different Jutsu.
To use your Katon example:
If Sasuke was extremely good at goukakyuu, as you deem the yondaime to be at this teleportation thing, Then you would't call the Goukakyuu Sasuke's Jutsu now would you?

Indeed I don't know about the part precisely in Naruto given that it wasn't clearly explained yet which is why I said "I don't see it as a new jutsu in Naruto either" and not bluntly you're wrong this is blahblahblah.

Like I said the sentence doesn't imply that it should be Yondaime's own jutsu, like your pant doesn't mean that you made it yourself and are the only one who haven't naked legs
Btw if I see Sasuke using an extremely good Goukakyuu, yeah I will say wow Sasuke's Goukakyuu is good because to merely say the Goukakyuu is good hasn't the same signification and would be generic to the jutsu and not the user.

In the other hand :

We saw the 4th using a seal on the left foot of the rock-nin. By doing this it's already different from the teleportation the jounins use, or would you say that jounins just put up seals everywhere as waypoint just in case they are ordered to go there? that is, even IF the seal is used as a waypoint, which seems the case but I don't know for sure, nor do you.

I missed that on the first scan I saw, I just noticed it on the translated ones.
From this it becomes way more probable that it's indeed a new jutsu even if it's still possible that it was simply a kind of marker to know where the opponent will hide.
But yeah with that I tend to think it's something new.

[tramadrama]

With Shunshin no Jutsu being introduced, this brings about some new questions, IMO. Some things I would love to find out about in the future is:

1. Is there a distance limit to the jutsu?
--> For example, if the 4th were to fight someone and had the mindset only to distract the enemy so his comrades can sneak into certain places, can he use the seal to mark the enemy and just when the enemy thinks he's made it far enough to alert of an intrusion, teleport and snaps his f****** neck from 400 yards?

2. For a jutsu such as this, is it even possible to be taught?
--> Learning the Rasengan and learning the seals for the Death God Jutsu seems to have certain mechanics for it to be done, but does Shunshin no Jutsu have those same mechanics to actually teach someone?So, could this be a Bloodline Limit? For all of the DBZ heads, yeah Goku was taught Instantaneous Movement but there weren't any Bloodline Limits in DBZ either (I don't count Super Saiyan because you could be a half breed Saiyan and still perform it, haven't seen that yet in Naruto).

3. And the grand finale question, they said the 4th disappeared after doing the Death God jutsu to seal Naruto and it's obvious that Shunshin no Jutsu makes you disappear and reappear...could the 100% chance of the 4th being dead now be moved to 99%?

[AkatsukisApprentice]

Originally Posted by ssjian1

That's a common stereotype...

Doesn't actually take 3 whole episodes of powering up to see some action in DBZ.

lol I remember watching DBZ and back in the day it was "the in thing" nowadays it pales in comparision to current anime available.

An example where someone takes 3 episodes to power up in DBZ...lets see... do you remember the freeza saga?? after seeing Freeza taking 3 episodes of powering up and transformations, I think many people will get pee'd if something similar was to happen in naruto. Now, if it is a drawn out fight power vs power, jitsu vs jitsu then that's kewl. ( for example oro vs 3rd hokage, very long fight but was worth watching, no nonsence powering up, and kept me amused throughout) I really dont like DBZ'esq type fights

[AkatsukisApprentice]

Originally Posted by ssjian1

That's a common stereotype...

Doesn't actually take 3 whole episodes of powering up to see some action in DBZ.

edit--
sorry for double post...this forum could really do with a delete button...

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by AkatsukisApprentice

lol I remember watching DBZ and back in the day it was "the in thing" nowadays it pales in comparision to current anime available.

An example where someone takes 3 episodes to power up in DBZ...lets see... do you remember the freeza saga?? after seeing Freeza taking 3 episodes of powering up and transformations, I think many people will get pee'd if something similar was to happen in naruto. Now, if it is a drawn out fight power vs power, jitsu vs jitsu then that's kewl. ( for example oro vs 3rd hokage, very long fight but was worth watching, no nonsence powering up, and kept me amused throughout) I really dont like DBZ'esq type fights

Please don't tell me you forgot the painstricken 2/3 months we just endured watching Naruto and Sasuke.

[Isis&Osiris]

what duh fuggers. this arc came popping out of no where after naruto heads off with jir.

still enjoyable none the less.

kakashi able to hold the chidori that long was a surprise to me. guess its not a one-shot all for nothing kill.


aboutthe 4th's teleport tech: I can't tell what it is. possibly its not teleport (jump from point a to point b instantly). rather it could be phase shifting at creeping light speed. meaning, he blinks in and out so fast as he moves that creates an illusion of teleport from point a to point b.

teleport is not stable. that's like folding time-space from point a to point b together in one instance. but phase shifting is like holographic blinking of multiple instances (from lightspeed to zero-point speed) to make to whatever location 100% stable so ya don't end up in a rock or some other dimension. heh

[DAyGO]

Originally Posted by Isis&Osiris

what duh fuggers. this arc came popping out of no where after naruto heads off with jir.

still enjoyable none the less.

kakashi able to hold the chidori that long was a surprise to me. guess its not a one-shot all for nothing kill.


aboutthe 4th's teleport tech: I can't tell what it is. possibly its not teleport (jump from point a to point b instantly). rather it could be phase shifting at creeping light speed. meaning, he blinks in and out so fast as he moves that creates an illusion of teleport from point a to point b.

teleport is not stable. that's like folding time-space from point a to point b together in one instance. but phase shifting is like holographic blinking of multiple instances (from lightspeed to zero-point speed) to make to whatever location 100% stable so ya don't end up in a rock or some other dimension. heh

Man That answers all my questions.... i had no idea...

[Animizzle]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Like I said the sentence doesn't imply that it should be Yondaime's own jutsu, like your pant doesn't mean that you made it yourself and are the only one who haven't naked legs

I see where you getting at, it's as in saying -Sasuke's Sharingan sure is amazing!- but Sasuke didn't "invent" the sharingan. Still I think as Genei Killua explained due to the fact that it's the fourth we are talking about here, and the fact that the 4th is renowned for inventing Jutsu's plus the factor that it's shown very different from the normal teleporting so to speak. That we are talking about a different Jutsu here.

Btw if I see Sasuke using an extremely good Goukakyuu, yeah I will say wow Sasuke's Goukakyuu is good because to merely say the Goukakyuu is good hasn't the same signification and would be generic to the jutsu and not the user.

hm, yeah, kind of the same as the first example. Can't argue with that.

Anyway, I think Genei Killua explained it the best. But since you missed the seal-part and more or less agreed, we'll leave it at this.
Which is kind of rare event, you agreeing with someone after a discussion.
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