Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 43 Discussion/Poll

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by janipani

Is Kio dumbest kid of Gundam series since Katz of Zeta Gundam?

Not even close, he's at least somewhat competent. I'd put him in about the same bracket as say Kou Uraki, Usso Ebbing or Shiro Amada. Good natural pilot, but kind of bumbling when it comes to the simpler things like not being manipulated by women intentionally or not such that he handicaps his own abilities.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Not even close, he's at least somewhat competent. I'd put him in about the same bracket as say Kou Uraki, Usso Ebbing or Shiro Amada. Good natural pilot, but kind of bumbling when it comes to the simpler things like not being manipulated by women intentionally or not such that he handicaps his own abilities.

No.

Kou didn't stop killing people or go full retard because he fell inlove with Nina, if anything, he tried harder. See: Plate full of carrots and pumping himself full of drugs to pilot the GP03.

Uso never stopped fighting, he was naive, but not to the point that Kio is, He did spare Katejina in the end though. And not to mention Uso is one of the MC's that lost the most teammates throughout any Gundam show (Not counting Jamil from Gundam X)

Shiro never stopped fighting, infact he understood that he had to pull the trigger. Example: No-Bra-Zaku-1-Girl, Norris.

Kio is the least competent Main character we've ever had in Gundam sofar.

Hell, even Shinn was more competent than Kio.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

No.

Kou didn't stop killing people or go full retard because he fell inlove with Nina, if anything, he tried harder. See: Plate full of carrots and pumping himself full of drugs to pilot the GP03.

Uso never stopped fighting, he was naive, but not to the point that Kio is, He did spare Katejina in the end though. And not to mention Uso is one of the MC's that lost the most teammates throughout any Gundam show (Not counting Jamil from Gundam X)

Shiro never stopped fighting, infact he understood that he had to pull the trigger. Example: No-Bra-Zaku-1-Girl, Norris.

Kio is the least competent Main character we've ever had in Gundam sofar.

Hell, even Shinn was more competent than Kio.

Except Kio hasn't stopped fighting either, he's just stopped outright killing his opponents. I think pulling off point defense against the Vagans while invading the moon base and protecting the ship and strike team during the descent was making pretty damn good use of the FX. The low point for him was probably trying to punch the Zamdrags particle cannon which falls well in line with the likes of Kou taking a Gundam built for land use out into space and getting wrecked, Shiro getting lost during a mission not once, not twice but three times and Usso having no response to being assaulted by the bikini babe squad near the end of Victory.

Though I know you'll see it differently somehow given your more than obvious position on all things AGE which is very well established by this point.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

Hell, even Shinn was more competent than Kio.

Really? LOL

in what regards was Shin more competent than Kio? I haven't seen Kio do anything half as stupid and incompetent as what Shin did with Stella

[janipani]

Omg.. I forgot Shinn... He actually competes with Katz in stupidity, but Kio is annoying right now

What are Kio'c crimes this far... giving dangerous data to enemy forces dangering whole eath forces just to push one girl's life for few days, girl who he barely knew. He also added confusion to battlefield by not even trying to eliminate enemies, but instead of that spreading his own personal propaganda, which was completely groundless since he don't have even power to control his crazy grandpa not to mention whole earth forces...

If Kio had any brains, he would join to his farhers pirates. And fight instead of talking nonsense.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by janipani

Omg.. I forgot Shinn... He actually competes with Katz in stupidity, but Kio is annoying right now

What are Kio'c crimes this far... giving dangerous data to enemy forces dangering whole eath forces just to push one girl's life for few days, girl who he barely knew. He also added confusion to battlefield by not even trying to eliminate enemies, but instead of that spreading his own personal propaganda, which was completely groundless since he don't have even power to control his crazy grandpa not to mention whole earth forces...

If Kio had any brains, he would join to his farhers pirates. And fight instead of talking nonsense.

Ezelcant would have gotten that data one way or another, Kio merely made the best out of a bad situation. The alternative to trading data for pulls for Lu was getting tortured and giving it up anyway.

How did he add confusion to the battlefield? Unlike Kira who just goes after all sides, Kio was still fighting for the EF, and he was the one opening up a path for the rest of the EF forces, the only difference is he wasn't outright killing the enemy pilots, but he was still taking out their mobile suits. The cockpit by itself is harmless. As for controlling Flit, he kept him from shooting a disabled Zeheart and Fram in the back, if that's not controlling Flit, idk what is.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Yeah I don't really see how he added confusion to the battlefield anymore than someone like Girard who to me is more deserving of that distinction for trying to shoot her own allies in a fit of mad rage. He was still trying to complete his mission, just not have to kill anyone during it. It's not like he left the enemies with their weapons intact so that they could shoot his team in the back going down after all. If he had done that I'd be like wtf.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Except Kio hasn't stopped fighting either, he's just stopped outright killing his opponents. I think pulling off point defense against the Vagans while invading the moon base and protecting the ship and strike team during the descent was making pretty damn good use of the FX. The low point for him was probably trying to punch the Zamdrags particle cannon which falls well in line with the likes of Kou taking a Gundam built for land use out into space and getting wrecked, Shiro getting lost during a mission not once, not twice but three times and Usso having no response to being assaulted by the bikini babe squad near the end of Victory.

No, Kio stopped fighting his last 2 opponents, Fram and Girard when Girard was going full on retard attacking everyone just like stella was just to put that reference to shinn, while shinn stopped attacking her because he knew her, Kio never bothered to attack Girard to begin with.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Though I know you'll see it differently somehow given your more than obvious position on all things AGE which is very well established by this point.

its fun seeing how you'll defend AGE even if it's bad due to personal issues and flat out ignorant fanboy attitude.

Even decent shows have their ups and downs, admit that, and you'll live a happier life.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Really? LOL

in what regards was Shin more competent than Kio? I haven't seen Kio do anything half as stupid and incompetent as what Shin did with Stella

Hey now, Shinn might be a retard but he never stopped fighting, he had doubts at some times but the guy got most of his work done, minus that entire Stella thing, but every character gets a freebie, dont they? if not i'm sure Kio is pretty much twice as fucked as Shinn is, character wise.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Yeah I don't really see how he added confusion to the battlefield anymore than someone like Girard who to me is more deserving of that distinction for trying to shoot her own allies in a fit of mad rage. He was still trying to complete his mission, just not have to kill anyone during it. It's not like he left the enemies with their weapons intact so that they could shoot his team in the back going down after all. If he had done that I'd be like wtf.

The mission was to recapture the Luna base, not play UNDERSTANDING with Fram and Girard, the only ones who did anything in this episode was Seric and Flit/Algreus to a extent

[Dengar]

I find it funny that people who stick to what they believe in are called 'stupid' when intellect has nothing to do with it.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Ezelcant would have gotten that data one way or another, Kio merely made the best out of a bad situation. The alternative to trading data for pulls for Lu was getting tortured and giving it up anyway.

How did he add confusion to the battlefield? Unlike Kira who just goes after all sides, Kio was still fighting for the EF, and he was the one opening up a path for the rest of the EF forces, the only difference is he wasn't outright killing the enemy pilots, but he was still taking out their mobile suits. The cockpit by itself is harmless. As for controlling Flit, he kept him from shooting a disabled Zeheart and Fram in the back, if that's not controlling Flit, idk what is.

That reasoning would only work if Kio was actually thinking about that. Considering he said "thanks" when running out with the pills pretty much says he didn't even consider he could be tortured for that information. While objectively we know Ezelcant would have gotten that data somehow, if that didn't play into Kio's decision at all who cares?

Problem is Kio almost cancels out any benefit he brings. Opens a path by taking out grunts and then proceeds to spend two episodes getting his rear kicked around by Fram and Girard. At best he was guarding himself and thus forcing others to come in and help him.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

That reasoning would only work if Kio was actually thinking about that. Considering he said "thanks" when running out with the pills pretty much says he didn't even consider he could be tortured for that information. While objectively we know Ezelcant would have gotten that data somehow, if that didn't play into Kio's decision at all who cares?

Why does it matter if he was thinking that or not? Using that against his character is silly because we the audience know Legilis would have been completed with or without his cooperation. At that point Kio thought Lu was more important than the Gundam. He's a naive 13 yo with no military training. Instead of slamming him for doing what any kid would do in that situation, why don't you guys complain about the Gundam not having an actual adult pilot with military training?

Problem is Kio almost cancels out any benefit he brings. Opens a path by taking out grunts and then proceeds to spend two episodes getting his rear kicked around by Fram and Girard. At best he was guarding himself and thus forcing others to come in and help him.

Really? Those are high level X-Rounders in custom units, anyone else would get bogged down fighting them too. In Flit's state he'd probably end up overextending himself and ending up like Verde Buster from Stargazer...
Kio doesn't cancel out anything, he's still fighting and trying to complete their objectives, just not in the way some of you might like. Right now he and Asemu are the only cool heads that might keep the war from turning into a complete bloodbath.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Znozzy

No, Kio stopped fighting his last 2 opponents, Fram and Girard when Girard was going full on retard attacking everyone just like stella was just to put that reference to shinn, while shinn stopped attacking her because he knew her, Kio never bothered to attack Girard to begin with.

What's funny is that I've seen this sort of thing in Gundam before even dating back to Zeta and Kamille's trying to talk down Rosamia as she was going nuts. Only difference there is nobody else was there to take the shot except Kamille. He HAD to take it, but boy did he hesisitate. It's a learning process for these characters, I don't know why people always immediately expect them to do it the way they would and call any character that doesn't have brass balls of steel and ice in their veins in these kinds of shows stupid and a bad character.

its fun seeing how you'll defend AGE even if it's bad due to personal issues and flat out ignorant fanboy attitude.

Even decent shows have their ups and downs, admit that, and you'll live a happier life.

Actually I've expressed multiple concerns going into the finale much like I did with 00 and believe there's some improvements to be made in the script and handling of certain characters if this finale is going to be anything other than just a textbook Gundam finale with minimal emotional investment to be had, I just don't see why I have to agree with every hardline ignorant/stubborn "criticism" that gets tossed around the likes of /m.

Also here's the thing, I kind of actually like Gundam and am not actively looking for reasons to put down the franchise so much as addressing the issues that come up. If you ask me people are trying way to hard in general these days to find fault with just about any action show that comes out and it strikes me as more than a little counterproductive to any hope of enjoying and appreciating them. If I'm an unrelenting fanboy in my hesistance to condemn AGE at every turn than several other people might as well be dedicated haters.

Hey now, Shinn might be a retard but he never stopped fighting, he had doubts at some times but the guy got most of his work done, minus that entire Stella thing, but every character gets a freebie, dont they? if not i'm sure Kio is pretty much twice as fucked as Shinn is, character wise.

This is not Gundam Seed Destiny and this is beside the point, lets not get side tracked from the matter at hand.

The mission was to recapture the Luna base, not play UNDERSTANDING with Fram and Girard, the only ones who did anything in this episode was Seric and Flit/Algreus to a extent

Yes and I believe they accomplished said goal and Kio played a large part in doing it by defending very vulnerable mobile suits as they were making their descent and push towards the base. I think it's kind of disingenious to disregard that even if you're in the anti-Kio pack of viewers. I also still expect a huge dressing down from Flit coming up for his conduct in the closing moments of the battle. Maybe even a Bright slap.

Originally Posted by Dengar

I find it funny that people who stick to what they believe in are called 'stupid' when intellect has nothing to do with it.

People need to pump their own sense of manliness and tough guy image by shitting on characters in shows every time they make a poor judgement call. Nowadays it seems no lead character is ever allowed to make a mistake or show that they need to grow up anymore or it's "bad writing". If MSG aired today it would probably get about the same treatment. Frankly I think it's a terrible way to watch the show and a ridiculous expectation, especially in the cases where people seem to be actively hunting for "offenses", but eh, everybody always seems to have a reason as to why each specific case in general is somehow more of a huge offense than others.

By the way this doesn't just apply to Gundam AGE, it's a very noticeable issue that's been plaguing discussion on a multitude of shows throughout 2012 in particular.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

What's funny is that I've seen this sort of thing in Gundam before even dating back to Zeta and Kamille's trying to talk down Rosamia as she was going nuts. Only difference there is nobody else was there to take the shot except Kamille. He HAD to take it, but boy did he hesisitate. It's a learning process for these characters, I don't know why people always immediately expect them to do it the way they would and call any character that doesn't have brass balls of steel and ice in their veins in these kinds of shows stupid and a bad character.

Indeed, but Kamille knew Rosamia, he spent time with her, Kio just met Girard 5 minutes ago and acted like all previous Gundam MC's who hesitated to pull the trigger, like Shinn with Stella, Kamille with Rosamia, Kira with Andrew Waldtfeldt.

They all had history with said character, Kio had no history with Girard at all, that's what makes the entire part so silly it.

The same could be said with Fram but not to the same extent as with Girard.

Actually I've expressed multiple concerns going into the finale much like I did with 00 and believe there's some improvements to be made in the script and handling of certain characters if this finale is going to be anything other than just a textbook Gundam finale with minimal emotional investment to be had, I just don't see why I have to agree with every hardline ignorant/stubborn "criticism" that gets tossed around the likes of /m.

You don't have to share someone opinion, but to flat out ignore a shows biggest flaws and call people who discuss them flamers is being a ignorant/stubborn fanboy.

Also here's the thing, I kind of actually like Gundam and am not actively looking for reasons to put down the franchise so much as addressing the issues that come up. If you ask me people are trying way to hard in general these days to find fault with just about any action show that comes out and it strikes me as more than a little counterproductive to any hope of enjoying and appreciating them. If I'm an unrelenting fanboy in my hesistance to condemn AGE at every turn than several other people might as well be dedicated haters.

I love Gundam as a franchise. i've seen every animated gundam (including Evolves, Ring of Gundam) work except the SD shows, read most of the sidestories out there and own over 50+ Gunpla Models, several DVD's including boxes.

That doesn't make me ignore the shows flaws, i love the franchise but i know it's not perfect.

This is not Gundam Seed Destiny and this is beside the point, lets not get side tracked from the matter at hand.

Agreed.

Yes and I believe they accomplished said goal and Kio played a large part in doing it by defending very vulnerable mobile suits as they were making their descent and push towards the base. I think it's kind of disingenious to disregard that even if you're in the anti-Kio pack of viewers. I also still expect a huge dressing down from Flit coming up for his conduct in the closing moments of the battle. Maybe even a Bright slap.

Kio did good until they landed, then he ran off and did his own understanding thing while the EF's lines kept falling, can't call that good work in my eyes, halfassed work at the most.

People need to pump their own sense of manliness and tough guy image by shitting on characters in shows every time they make a poor judgement call.

No, people will start shitting on characters when they don't stop making poor judgement calls.

By the way this doesn't just apply to Gundam AGE, it's a very noticeable issue that's been plaguing discussion on a multitude of shows throughout 2012 in particular.

as you said earlier, let's keep it on-topic, but i can personally say i am quite disappointed with E7:AO. Lots of interesting anime came out this year, Muv-luv, E7:Ao, AGE(2011), of course everything wont live up to peoples expectations.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Why does it matter if he was thinking that or not? Using that against his character is silly because we the audience know Legilis would have been completed with or without his cooperation.

Speculations. There is no way to tell if Legilis would've been completed withou the AGE Devices Data.

At that point Kio thought Lu was more important than the Gundam. He's a naive 13 yo with no military training. Instead of slamming him for doing what any kid would do in that situation, why don't you guys complain about the Gundam not having an actual adult pilot with military training?

I've been watching AGE with my soon-to-be 12 year old younger brother and even he calls Kio stupid for letting Ezelcant take the AGE device.

Kids are naive for sure, but being naive and being stupid is two different things, Kio is being Stupid.

The Vagan's destroyed his hometown, They have waged war on the federation for the past 70 years and caused a great amount of casulties, either Kio doesn't care or he is stupid, there is no way any kid that's right in the head would give Ezelcant the AGE device unless he was tortured.

Really? Those are high level X-Rounders in custom units, anyone else would get bogged down fighting them too. In Flit's state he'd probably end up overextending himself and ending up like Verde Buster from Stargazer...
Kio doesn't cancel out anything, he's still fighting and trying to complete their objectives, just not in the way some of you might like. Right now he and Asemu are the only cool heads that might keep the war from turning into a complete bloodbath.

That's the point, Kio isn't even fighting anymore, He is basically turning into Basara without being awesome.

[Revolutionist]

You would have a valid comment if the understanding theme came completely unexpected and made no sense. However, when you look at how it's been developed, it's not that difficult to swallow. Just because you have a personal issue with that theme and don't like it for whatever reason, doesn't mean that there's something inherently wrong with the show like you're implying.

Do you seriously expect a thirteen year old with no military training to be a perfect soldier? Kio was portrayed as a nice kid, and his experience in Second Moon clearly changed him. Instead of wanting to destroy the other side he's trying to end the fighting so people can sit down and talk. It might be naive, but it's completely within his character and it makes sense, and you know what? Flit at 14 couldn't pull the trigger either, twice, so lay off the Kio hate. If you want to complain, then complain about the Gundam not having a real pilot, instead of a kid.

[Destined_Fate]

Tch, if Heero could be a perfect soldier than Kio should have had no problem considering he actually has a legacy of Gundam pilot in his family line.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

You would have a valid comment if the understanding theme came completely unexpected and made no sense. However, when you look at how it's been developed, it's not that difficult to swallow.

But it is, Kio disables the Vagan's mobile suits, that is completely understandable with his current character development, he protects helpless people by not letting a EF soldier shoot the now bodyless head cockpit. That's understandable.

going from that to not fighting at all and letting his own grandfather nearly get killed when Girard went berserk by a person he just met, is not.

Kio wanted to prevent casulties on both sides and he wanted to try and understand the vagans, instead he was now letting one person put both his father and grandfather in danger because she didn't want to talk to him.

Just because you have a personal issue with that theme and don't like it for whatever reason, doesn't mean that there's something inherently wrong with the show like you're implying.

I don't, i have a problem with the execution of it at the moment.

Do you seriously expect a thirteen year old with no military training to be a perfect soldier? Kio was portrayed as a nice kid, and his experience in Second Moon clearly changed him.

Never said i expected a super soldier, i expected the show to have Kio show some common sense.

Instead of wanting to destroy the other side he's trying to end the fighting so people can sit down and talk. It might be naive, but it's completely within his character and it makes sense

And it's understandable, as i said, i don't have a problem with understanding eachother, i have a problem with how the writers is having Kio handle the understanding concept.

and you know what? Flit at 14 couldn't pull the trigger either, twice, so lay off the Kio hate. If you want to complain, then complain about the Gundam not having a real pilot, instead of a kid.

But Flit did pull the trigger(Against Decil) what he couldn't do was killing a child he met face to face in cold blood. Yark Dole is another story, though. Grodek spared Flit from pulling the trigger, even after all that, he was still a child, but atleast Flit showed some common sense when people close to him was in danger throughout Gen 1.

[xellos2099]

One thing that piss mee off kio is that I think he falt Vegan's lives are more valuable than EF side?

[houkoholic]

Don't just blame Kio/AGE with this no common sense approach to the no-kill policy, it's a problem with the entire Anime/Game industry of Japan of recent. Just look at the oh-so-great Unicorn for the same thing in episode 4 when Banagher wants to talk Loni out of fighting when she was murdering Fed soldiers left and right and completely levelling the city around her, just like Kio wanting to talk Gerrid out of fighting when she had just killed about 10 Fed soliders 5 minutes before. The execution is so bad that all it ends up looking is ultimate hypocrisy for the protagonist's ideal - as the protagonist appears only interested in saving the faced characters while completely ignoring the casualty of the nameless/faceless while they keep talking unsuccessfully about "let's not fight!" nor will try to disarm the enemy whom are usually in unstable emotional condition such that talking is completely useless anyway. It's probably one of my pet peeve against writing about pacifism in anime in recent years.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Well I do agree that if Kio keeps up with the whole understanding thing and it keeps going the way it's been going then things aren't going to be very sensible in the finale. I would definitely imagine that he's heading towards taking a different tack now that his naive direct approach to trying to have a pow wow with Vagan pilots (one of the more seemingly reasonable ones in Fram at that) has failed. Next episodes probably going to be pretty important for his development.

Originally Posted by xellos2099

One thing that piss mee off kio is that I think he falt Vegan's lives are more valuable than EF side?

Er he doesn't at all. He used his shield bits to protect both EF and Vagan units from total destruction.

[Znozzy]

Originally Posted by houkoholic

Don't just blame Kio/AGE with this no common sense approach to the no-kill policy, it's a problem with the entire Anime/Game industry of Japan of recent. Just look at the oh-so-great Unicorn for the same thing in episode 4 when Banagher wants to talk Loni out of fighting when she was murdering Fed soldiers left and right and completely levelling the city around her

Banagher met Loni earlier, and he beat up Zimmerman to head out in the Unicorn to stop her, the moment he landet, she stopped shooting at everything around him and focused on him instead.

He was about to put her out before the Newtypeitssosad moment happened, and she was done then eitherway, the entire situation was handled in a bad way because they didn't stick to the Novels when it came to Loni's background story.

just like Kio wanting to talk Gerrid out of fighting when she had just killed about 10 Fed soliders 5 minutes before. The execution is so bad that all it ends up looking is ultimate hypocrisy for the protagonist's ideal - as the protagonist appears only interested in saving the faced characters while completely ignoring the casualty of the nameless/faceless while they keep talking unsuccessfully about "let's not fight!" nor will try to disarm the enemy whom are usually in unstable emotional condition such that talking is completely useless anyway. It's probably one of my pet peeve against writing about pacifism in anime in recent years.

Nicely put. i agree.