(L) Tari Tari

[ookamigirl]

It's nice that Wakana now officially decided to be an active member of the choir club.
White Festival preparations were fun to watch.
They sure had some pretty interesting ideas.
Sawa and her horse racing dream were put in front of a serious obstacle.
Her dieting could be potentially dangerous.. if she overdoes it.
Looks like the negative side showed it's ugly face at the worse possible time.

[Blonto]

Originally Posted by Sphire

Just touching on both points, the one thing I guess I'd say I didn't like was how sudden the diet thing started. I think it's fair to assume Sawa knew weight requirements, so it would have been nice to see her 'dieting' start before this episode. But maybe that's just me nitpicking. Perhaps she did try and now only started drastic measures. Or perhaps that book/magazine/letter finally told her exact weight requirements.

It's much easier to lose weight once you start strongly keeping a goal in mind. For the longest time I was kinda-sorta trying to lose some weight, but it wasn't when time started pressing down on me that I took it seriously. I imagine she was thinking she'd manage somehow, but only when she really got into a fight with her dad did she realize that she must give it her all.

[Jmac]

Kinda makes me wonder why Sawas' dad is so against the idea of her riding professionally. Also looks like Wiens time in Japan isn't all fun and games like I thought. Maybe some character development is in store for him after Sawa? I sure hope so...

[Blonto]

Originally Posted by Jmac

Kinda makes me wonder why Sawas' dad is so against the idea of her riding professionally. Also looks like Wiens time in Japan isn't all fun and games like I thought. Maybe some character development is in store for him after Sawa? I sure hope so...

It's a very risky source of income. I hear stories all the time from artists about how unsupporting their families can be, telling them to get a "real job". Pretty similar to Sawa's situation and I think a lot of people with less conventional jobs have to go through that.
Also hoping for some development for Wien.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Jmac

Kinda makes me wonder why Sawas' dad is so against the idea of her riding professionally.

Like Blonto said, it's a very risky source of income.

Some parents want their children to grasp for greatness. Other parents just want their children to be safe, stable, and self-sufficient. Sawa's father (and probably her mother to a lesser extent) is such a
stability-focused parent.

I think Sawa's father truly has her best interests at heart, but he's a strict pragmatist, whereas Sawa is a bit more of a dreamer.

If I was Sawa's father, I'd probably encourage her to go for it (because she is pretty talented at both equestrianism and archery), but I can still understand where he's coming from.

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Like Blonto said, it's a very risky source of income.

Some parents want their children to grasp for greatness. Other parents just want their children to be safe, stable, and self-sufficient. Sawa's father (and probably her mother to a lesser extent) is such a
stability-focused parent.

I think Sawa's father truly has her best interests at heart, but he's a strict pragmatist, whereas Sawa is a bit more of a dreamer.

If I was Sawa's father, I'd probably encourage her to go for it (because she is pretty talented at both equestrianism and archery), but I can still understand where he's coming from.

Ahhh,

I was kinda hoping for something a little more dramatic like, her father rode professional and had to give it up for his family and he's speaking from experience.

Oh well, can't have it all I guess.

[Guardian Enzo]

This Sawa arc feels "too serious to be funny, not serious enough to be dramatic" for me. It seems pretty lightweight compared to what Wakana was dealing with. I really, sincerely hope this doesn't drag out for three eps. I'm assuming the last three eps will be taken up with whatever scheme the school Chairman is cooking up, with the V-P perhaps joining the good guys in a fight against injustice. Maybe that's what we're building towards with all Wien's hero talk.

Setting aside the question of how badly the boys are being treated by the writers (very) does anything else feel like they're being treated shabbily by the girls too? They're generally treated like second-class citizens of little importance to the club, and Taichi was actually being quite sensitive and insightful about Sawa (as an athlete he spotted the signs of binge dieting) and they practically ripped his head off for it.

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Setting aside the question of how badly the boys are being treated by the writers (very) does anything else feel like they're being treated shabbily by the girls too? They're generally treated like second-class citizens of little importance to the club, and Taichi was actually being quite sensitive and insightful about Sawa (as an athlete he spotted the signs of binge dieting) and they practically ripped his head off for it.

I know!
One thing a gathered from this season is indeed how crappy the male cast has been treated, not in this show, but others as well.

Taichi was showing genuine concern and they ripped him a new one! Heaven forbid the outcome if he actually called Sawa 'fatty'.

And Wien gets no respect; pretty much shooting down all ideas he comes up with. At least he tried something different, unlike the others that incorporated the singing into their hobbies

[Blonto]

Originally Posted by Jmac

Ahhh,

I was kinda hoping for something a little more dramatic like, her father rode professional and had to give it up for his family and he's speaking from experience.

Oh well, can't have it all I guess.

I think this is much more realistic. Both sides are more understandable when one isn't held back by a grudge. It's simply a matter of how much you think your child is prepared for such a profession. Some kids want to go into certain jobs but they lack talent and skill, or they just go through a phase. So her dad's worries are understandable. If Wakana has the talent and passion, then I'm on her side.

[Saturn Beaver]

@Enzo: I completely agree with you that this shouldn't be 3 eps hopefully, but I still think the balance is maintained pretty fine. Sure, from an outside perspective like us losing your mother is a much greater deal than your future dream job, but it's seen through Sawa's eyes, not us. For her, this has been a lifelong dream, and to her (teenage, irrational) mind it's just as important to her.

Also while I can really see where the complaints of being formulaic is coming from, I think there's an interesting difference here. Sure, they drove away people who are trying to help her, but for Wakana it's probably because she doesn't want to feel the hurt of letting someone close and losing them again.

However, for Sawa it's different - remember early on when some are thinking her a bit Mary-sueish because of how she seems to have everything together? That's only because evrything was already working well, and as we see her (and also often in real life too), everything falls apart when real trouble comes.

So, the way I see it is that she's always been able to solve her problems herself, and that's why she's too proud to admit that maybe this time her idea isn't the best, or that she can't fulfill her dream just shoulderibg everything on her own. Hell, she won't even admit she has a problem, as if she's trying to prove that as usual this Sawa has everything under control, no need to find out what really happens if all ends well.

Originally Posted by Jmac

I know!
One thing a gathered from this season is indeed how crappy the male cast has been treated, not in this show, but others as well.

Taichi was showing genuine concern and they ripped him a new one! Heaven forbid the outcome if he actually called Sawa 'fatty'.

And Wien gets no respect; pretty much shooting down all ideas he comes up with. At least he tried something different, unlike the others that incorporated the singing into their hobbies

Yeah, I have to agree with this one too. I mean, it's always bben there that the girls prefer each other's company and can get a bit disrespectful to the guys, but it really went overboard this ep. Not to mention how ridiculous it is, is Wein seriously that gullible? Enzo brought a fine point thaat the girls is kinda acting like author avatars, and I can totally see that. Like the girls, they don't deliberately hate them, they thought it was just harmless fun - which dosn't change that it's actually really mean-spirited.

I still have hope and faith in the writers though. Like others mentioned just because Wein hasn't been in the spotlight doesn't mean they're not building up for hsi development, and if they can full capitalise it looks like it can be really big and good. I just hope they utilise his unique background to make something more grand than just 'desperately seeking for my purpose in life' (especially as it seems that Wakana is coming down a similar road too).

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver

is Wein seriously that gullible?

I don't think he's that gullible. Because, IIRC, when he was writing that letter later on he seemed down and out. So I would bet that the actions of the others are having a effect on him, but we haven't seen it until now.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by Jmac

I don't think he's that gullible. Because, IIRC, when he was writing that letter later on he seemed down and out. So I would bet that the actions of the others are having a effect on him, but we haven't seen it until now.

I think this episode was designed to underline the idea of facades. Sawa was holding one through much of the episode while, as is becoming ever more clear, Wein has been maintaining a facade for the length of the show. He basically twists everything that occurs in such a way as to be able to send his friend/brother/someone only the best stories and memories. His loneliness, which has been apparent since the second episode, has never made its way into his letters, instead its always been about "friends" and "fun" and "white rhinos", he's playing hero and its going to bite him in the ass soon enough. His character is always gloomy, visually, when on his own.

All the characters have overlaps but its looking to me, little by little, that while most of the cast shares common ground on many positives (singing, music, sports, or just good friends), Wein is always gaining more overlaps in the negatives. Examples: parents/family through thick and thin, and yet Wein still has no family of any sort; motivation, just as you think that he and Wakana have some common ground... turns out he's really on his own; facades mentioned before; and last, amongst friends, he's treats them as friends but the reverse doesn't seem true (visually keyed when everyone ran after their "goals" but he was left behind). I have a feeling that this "plan" has something to do with Wein, I'm thinking that that new man is possibly his father. Timing is a little too perfect otherwise. All of his character development, long story short, is hidden in the problems and backgrounds of then other characters.

I'm less worried about Wein getting development as I am Taichi at the point, cause they haven't touched him since his half an episode. I get the feeling that they are building towards a relationship with Sawa but that has yet to come to fruition. I would find it comically fitting, though, if Konatsu's misunderstanding doesn't resolve with FARU IN RABU. The story keeps poking fun at the girls not having boyfriends...

[prototype_sky]

The greater the lie the more believable it is.

[Zeross]

i love how i generaly tend to like things other do and don't like the things other like.

i was getting annoyed at the end of the wakana arc because i don't like character that restrain themself to much like she was.

i absolutly loved how she quickly became a part of the club when her issues where solved.
i just love their antics and how quick they jump to each other joke and fuel them, its so much like i'm acting with my friends. now that wakana is a part of it, its so much funnier and enjoying.

i don't think the boys are particulary treated badly. wien is a running joke and konatsu teased him with her false information like the begining, its not realy mean its just teasing.
the only part when they where realy mean was when he was asking about sawa diet, but even then, their reaction is the typical reaction of all girls in anime when boys talk about a girl's diet, why hate in only on this one ? sure its a stereotype and they can be dumb/boring but well....

also is it me of for beiing "a great character" you need to have either a serious trauma, a chaotic past, need to be depresive and gloomy ? its not for this show but i often notice how "tragic" character are often called great. no need to be overly dramatic and/or find dramatic source to all problems.
sawa's problem is more common, less dramatic, but it dont mean it will be more boring. i mean a lot of child have dream that are treated as "playing" by their parents and its always a problem when you want to make your passion your work.
i undestand sawa's dad of wanting his daugther to have a 'safe' job, and i understand sawa's reaction of thinking her parents are trying to crush her dream.
what i dont like, is her not talking to her friends, but she have such a perfect image to maintain that i can undestand, especialy when she have a close friend so much more childist than her.

anyway, great episode for me, hope it continue this way.

[Blaat]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

They're generally treated like second-class citizens of little importance to the club, and Taichi was actually being quite sensitive and insightful about Sawa (as an athlete he spotted the signs of binge dieting) and they practically ripped his head off for it.

I wonder if this is an issue for the Japanese male viewers as well? Or are they simply enjoying the girls antics too much too care about the treatment of the guys.

Originally Posted by Zeross

why hate in only on this one ?

Tari Tari isn't the first show where this issue has been brought up nor will it be the last.

[Blonto]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Setting aside the question of how badly the boys are being treated by the writers (very) does anything else feel like they're being treated shabbily by the girls too? They're generally treated like second-class citizens of little importance to the club, and Taichi was actually being quite sensitive and insightful about Sawa (as an athlete he spotted the signs of binge dieting) and they practically ripped his head off for it.

As much as I like to complain about the bad treatment of males in anime, I think this is pretty realistic. Maybe it's because I was teased like that by my (male and female) cousins and I do it myself too, so I simply fail to see their actions as mean-spirited. Girls or family members will simply stick together more in mixed groups. I don't think it's the same problem like in other anime where guys suffer both physical and psychological abuse that's either way to harsh or due to things that aren't their fault.
I don't see what's so bad about what they did, they just pulled a prank and from Sawa's comment ("Enough with the rhino") it didn't seem like they though he took it that seriously.
Yeah, they didn't have to brush off the badminton guy like that, but still l didn't really take it as anything too malicious, more like girls over-reacting to a topic they're very sensitive to, not so much to the guy himself. I kinda wish they ended that scene in a less defensive way from the girls' side, because that did bother me, but not to the extent of thinking the girls are abusing guys.
Also, the reason they didn't consider Wien's idea is because it didn't include singing and they were looking for ideas that did. That was dumb of him, really.

I think the characters the writers picked simply happen to clash because of their personalities in a way that may make them seem unequal. Taichi is supposed to be a kinda serious guy so he wouldn't pull any pranks and Wien is a new kid so he's kinda withdrawn and too reliant on other people's information. When you put those two against a group of three girl friends, there's bound to be some teasing.
I do wish the guys would get some development because it's definitively not working if they're supposed to feel like a part of the group. They just feel like two supporting characters that happen to share the same club.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Blaat

I wonder if this is an issue for the Japanese male viewers as well? Or they simply enjoying the girls antics too much too care about the treatment of the guys.
Tari Tari isn't the first show where this issue has been brought up nor will it be the last.

I don't want to make this out to be more offensive than it is - there are certainly shows that are more overtly misandrist than Tari Tari. But... In TT I do think the boys are generally treated quite shabbily by the girls - which is a much larger problem when the writing gives no indication that this is wrong in any way. There's more a sort of general sense that guys are an inferior species, and thus being treated as such is just the natural order of things.

If anything, that's what really nettles me in Tari Tari. It's not so much that the guys are so much worse off here than in other anime (guys being ignored or emasculated is pretty much the norm these days) but that TT presents itself as an ensemble show that treats all the main cast as important and in practice, is anything but.

[Sphire]

Originally Posted by Vena

I think this episode was designed to underline the idea of facades. Sawa was holding one through much of the episode while, as is becoming ever more clear, Wein has been maintaining a facade for the length of the show. He basically twists everything that occurs in such a way as to be able to send his friend/brother/someone only the best stories and memories. His loneliness, which has been apparent since the second episode, has never made its way into his letters, instead its always been about "friends" and "fun" and "white rhinos", he's playing hero and its going to bite him in the ass soon enough. His character is always gloomy, visually, when on his own.

Great points. Unlike Wakana's issue, which I think everyone knew (that her mother died), Sawa and Wien have issues that haven't been spoken about for the most part (Sawa did tell Wakana about her dad though).

Originally Posted by Vena

I'm less worried about Wein getting development as I am Taichi at the point,

What?! NO?! Screw Taichi! No one wants his Kokoro Connect White Knight ass here! hahaha.

Originally Posted by Blonto

As much as I like to complain about the bad treatment of males in anime, I think this is pretty realistic. Maybe it's because I was teased like that by my (male and female) cousins and I do it myself too, so I simply fail to see their actions as mean-spirited. Girls or family members will simply stick together more in mixed groups. I don't think it's the same problem like in other anime where guys suffer both physical and psychological abuse that's either way to harsh or due to things that aren't their fault.
I don't see what's so bad about what they did, they just pulled a prank and from Sawa's comment ("Enough with the rhino") it didn't seem like they though he took it that seriously.
Yeah, they didn't have to brush off the badminton guy like that, but still l didn't really take it as anything too malicious, more like girls over-reacting to a topic they're very sensitive to, not so much to the guy himself. I kinda wish they ended that scene in a less defensive way from the girls' side, because that did bother me, but not to the extent of thinking the girls are abusing guys.
Also, the reason they didn't consider Wien's idea is because it didn't include singing and they were looking for ideas that did. That was dumb of him, really.

I think the characters the writers picked simply happen to clash because of their personalities in a way that may make them seem unequal. Taichi is supposed to be a kinda serious guy so he wouldn't pull any pranks and Wien is a new kid so he's kinda withdrawn and too reliant on other people's information. When you put those two against a group of three girl friends, there's bound to be some teasing.
I do wish the guys would get some development because it's definitively not working if they're supposed to feel like a part of the group. They just feel like two supporting characters that happen to share the same club.

Yea, I didn't really get annoyed at the guys treatment. At least not from the main girls. Sure it was a bit mean when all TANAKA did was show concern, but girl + weight always seems like a setup for a cheap joke anyway, so meh. Plus it kinda helped show Wakana integrating into the group more.

I was way more annoyed when the choir girl came in and told Tanaka to 'Move'. If that was me, I'd be like, 'Make me'...or, as Wakana's dad put it, 'pretty please'. Instead he just upped and moved, chet. I mean, you could obviously tell she was being a b!tch.

The guys just need an episode majorly focused on them, then all will be well.

Also, damn that Taichi, he's really gotten into people's heads!

[Uberchu]

You guys need some more faith in this anime. The guys will have their chance in the spotlight in due time. We've already covered Konatsu's arc, Wakana's arc, and soon Sawa's arc. After that it's the guys' time. And it's not like there hasn't been foreshadowing. Wien had his letter to his sister and Tanaka with badminton.

[Triple_R]

I don't think that the three main girls have been that bad to the two main guys... but it perhaps comes off a bit worse here because the two guys have practically been Saints towards the girls.

Seriously, Tanaka and Wien are total team players, and never fail to be considerate and supportive of the girls. And unlike most anime male characters, they don't even show an ounce of perversion towards the female characters. They're complete and utter gentlemen towards them.

So there's a sense that the girls are a bit too standoffish and short with the guys. That they don't appreciate the guys enough. I hate to say it, but I sometimes even get a sense that the guys are just being used by the girls...

I think that what might have helped Tari Tari is the classic childhood friend approach. If Tanaka was the childhood friend of one of the three girls, that would help tear down this thick gender barrier that I feel in a lot of the scenes involving one or more of the main guys interacting with one or more of the main girls.

But then, on the other hand, maybe Tari Tari's writers are aware of this gender barrier like I am, and a major future plot point will be tearing town that barrier.


I think that Tari Tari shows the difficulty in having male characters interact with female characters in anime when:

1. There's no romance.

2. There's absolutely no sexual tension whatsoever.

3. There's no established "childhood friend" connection tying at least one of the guys to at least one of the girls.


I can't say that any of the interactions between the girls and the guys feel unnatural. They're more or less what I'd expect given the circumstances. But they also do leave some scenes feeling a bit awkward, and the guys occasionally seeming shafted.


Still, in spite of this, I do really like Tari Tari. But breaking down this gender barrier and/or getting more spotlight for the guys really is the main challenge facing the show. How it handles that challenge will, for me, determine if Tari Tari is just another pretty good slice of high school life show, or if Tari Tari is truly something special.