Character Discussion - Suzaku

[Var]

Originally Posted by Orga777

It is probable, but I think it will be mostly just a spur of the moment thing that will make him lose faith. His anger takes over for a bit or something. When he calms down again, who knows if he will still harbor those feelings or not.

While I agree, I don't think Lelouch on his own will forgive Suzaku. Not with all things considered. This is another reason for him to despise Suzaku. He may not have directly taken Shirley from him, but he did not do/protect what Lelouch likely believed he had entrusted to him. He's still bitter over Suzaku taking Nunally from him, and then Kallen, and now this. I would say there's a lot more going for keeping the two separated then them ever coming to terms with one another.

Originally Posted by Eliarine

No, but Suzaku will protect her no matter what, if the lines in the relationships chart are anything to go by. If Lelouch loses some of his faith in him because of this I don't think it will be significant enough for him to question Nunnally's safety.

I didn't mean faith in that sense, but he may lose the last bit of restraint he had in keeping Nunally under Suzaku's watchful eye. If Lelouch has even the slightest amount of doubt concerning her safety, he will act.

And as it stands, he has no idea who killed Shirley, heck, it could be Suzaku for all he knows. It was the last person he saw her with.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Var

While I agree, I don't think Lelouch on his own will forgive Suzaku. Not with all things considered. This is another reason for him to despise Suzaku. He may not have directly taken Shirley from him, but he did not do/protect what Lelouch likely believed he had entrusted to him. He's still bitter over Suzaku taking Nunally from him, and then Kallen, and now this. I would say there's a lot more going for keeping the two separated then them ever coming to terms with one another.

It is going to be tough for things to get worked out. As much as I expect Suzaku to blame himself this is at least going to only sour things on Lelouch's side. Can defintely see Suzaku as taking things away in that regard. Slight possibility that at some point what she said to Lelouch about not hating him even though he got her father killed will have an impact. Though doubt it will be something he'll think about right now. Things may just get worse before they get better with these two. And they have gotten pretty bad already.

I didn't mean faith in that sense, but he may lose the last bit of restraint he had in keeping Nunally under Suzaku's watchful eye. If Lelouch has even the slightest amount of doubt concerning her safety, he will act.

And as it stands, he has no idea who killed Shirley, heck, it could be Suzaku for all he knows. It was the last person he saw her with.

Well I don't think he'd think Suzaku did it. He may blame him for not protecting Shirley like he had thought in his head, but no matter what is gone on between them killing someone they both cared about isn't something he'd do.

Also would he think its even wise to go and forcefully take Nunally back? After all Kallen was with him (not right beside him of course) but he couldn't stop her from being taken. Nor could he recover her when he made that decision. Couldn't stop Nunally from being taken when he left her under the watch of his group. Again he hasn't been able to recover her though the latest time was because she wanted to stay. Then we have Shirley who he couldn't protect after leaving her with Suzaku and with her being dead he can't get her back for sure. Not like being with Lelouch is a guarantee for your safety either.

[orangejuicetang]

If he decides to try to go retake Nunually, let's hope he doesn't let Rolo be in charge of the Rescue Nunually mission or hand him the responsibility of securing Nunually.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

If he decides to try to go retake Nunually, let's hope he doesn't let Rolo be in charge of the Rescue Nunually mission or hand him the responsibility of securing Nunually.

That would be just asking for a disaster.... <.< I don't even want to think about that.

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

If he decides to try to go retake Nunually, let's hope he doesn't let Rolo be in charge of the Rescue Nunually mission or hand him the responsibility of securing Nunually.

That sounds really nasty. If Nunally starts talking about her brother in a loving way, i can see her head floating on the air within a blink of an eye.

[Airi]

Originally Posted by Orga777

That would be just asking for a disaster....

Lelouch: Rolo!!!! Save Nunnaly!!
Rolo: Of course, Nii-san!!! let's see....how can I kill her....?
Lelouch: Did you say something?
Rolo: No, I didn't say anything, Nii-san

[zalem]

I think there will be a riot if Rolo does anything to Nunnally.

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by zalem

I think there will be a riot if Rolo does anything to Nunnally.

A riot, sure! About time they start killing off more characters.

Where is Tomino when you need him?

[yezhanquan]

Er... back to Suzaku?

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Er... back to Suzaku?

Well suppose could talk about how its likely to fall to Suzaku to tell Nunnally about what happened to Shirley. Unless they want to keep the fact a friend of hers has died a secret.

[yezhanquan]

I think Suzaku will break the news to Nunnally, and then to Kallen.

[Major1138]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

What I'm curious about is how Suzaku will react to these events. After all he did have a short but important conversation with Shirley before she died. "Nothing's unforgivable." They should have been able to understand each other better than anyone. Differences in the situations, but Lelouch's actions lead to the death of people they cared about deeply. Shirley was able to forgive Lelouch and want to stand by his side. I'm curious can Suzaku make a similar decision? He's taken a lot of steps on a different road that makes it hard. She did tell him that he could forgive Lelouch if he wanted to. Of course its a two-way street and you wonder can Lelouch forgive Suzaku for his actions?

The fate of two friends really makes me wonder. Also I have to add about the ED. I know images don't mean exactly what they show, but any thoughts on symbolism? Angel wings broken. Also Lelouch holding onto Suzaku's arm and Suzaku holding onto Lelouch's shoulder. Kind of a friendship posture. But I'm probably too optimistic on them ever seeing eye to eye again.

I don't know if they'll ever really be friends again like they were before - I think too much has happened between them for that, but I can definitely see them coming to some sort of resolution by the end of the series where at the very least, they aren't trying to kill each other anymore. I mean, right after they saved Shirley from falling, they were joking around like old times until they caught themselves - which makes me suspect that Shirley's not too far off the mark with her comments about how despite what he says, Suzaku could forgive Lelouch if he wanted to. I suspect the same is true for Lelouch as well, given how he thought about the gang (including Suzaku) being together again for fireworks at Ashford once everything is over.

The way the plot seems to be heading, I can see a "unite against a common foe" scenario playing out in the future (given how the Emperor and V.V. appear to have some crazy scheme going on) which would provide a path for Lelouch and Suzaku to come to some understanding.

And as you mentioned, it is noteworthy how the portrayal of Lelouch and Suzkau at the end of the ED differs from how they were generally shown before - the reversed colours (Lelouch in white and Suzaku in black) also seems conspicuous as well.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Major1138

I don't know if they'll ever really be friends again like they were before - I think too much has happened between them for that, but I can definitely see them coming to some sort of resolution by the end of the series where at the very least, they aren't trying to kill each other anymore. I mean, right after they saved Shirley from falling, they were joking around like old times until they caught themselves - which makes me suspect that Shirley's not too far off the mark with her comments about how despite what he says, Suzaku could forgive Lelouch if he wanted to. I suspect the same is true for Lelouch as well, given how he thought about the gang (including Suzaku) being together again for fireworks at Ashford once everything is over.

The way the plot seems to be heading, I can see a "unite against a common foe" scenario playing out in the future (given how the Emperor and V.V. appear to have some crazy scheme going on) which would provide a path for Lelouch and Suzaku to come to some understanding.

And as you mentioned, it is noteworthy how the portrayal of Lelouch and Suzkau at the end of the ED differs from how they were generally shown before - the reversed colours (Lelouch in white and Suzaku in black) also seems conspicuous as well.

Agree that things can never be the same for a lot of people. Shirley is gone and so the group can never reunite fully again. The best outcome is some sort of resolution where they aren't out for each others blood. At least it may be possible to regain some level of friendship. All about whether the two of them can overcome all that's happened. Have shown that when they forget about things that they can enjoy good times together. Maybe they can remember that the people they are grieving for Shirley and Euphie wouldn't want them to be acting like that with each other.

Back in that cave Suzaku refused to ally with Lelouch to save Nunnally. Do wonder whether another time will come when one or the other reaches out to combine their forces. Did it already with Shirley falling, but can they stand together on a larger scale? Of that I'm not sure, but will keep some hopes on it and see what develops.

On the ED its just interesting how prominent angel/devil wings were in the last ED. Now you see a lot of broken ones and tossing in how Suzaku had the white on the surface and black beneath and how his new outfit is predominately black with some white still there. Though colours are much less split in the new one.

[Aquaman OS]

Shirley's last words to them were feelings of forgiveness. If they don't make up she died for nothing. They HAVE to make up if the show wants to have any sort of positive conclusion. Shirley was Lelouch's Euphie ( I was disapointed they didn't play the same death music) there is no reason they shouldn't be able to understand each others pain now.

[yezhanquan]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Shirley's last words to them were feelings of forgiveness. If they don't make up she died for nothing. They HAVE to make up if the show wants to have any sort of positive conclusion. Shirley was Lelouch's Euphie ( I was disapointed they didn't play the same death music) there is no reason they shouldn't be able to understand each others pain now.

Like I speculate, it could go the other way. Both boys had their pride and prejudice. Whether they can overcome both is a big question.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Shirley's last words to them were feelings of forgiveness. If they don't make up she died for nothing. They HAVE to make up if the show wants to have any sort of positive conclusion. Shirley was Lelouch's Euphie ( I was disappointed they didn't play the same death music) there is no reason they shouldn't be able to understand each others pain now.

Agree that it is important that the two can at least reach some kind of resolution. Would make her death all the sadder if her actions in episode 13 didn't accomplish something. Even worse like some said it has the potential to make things between them even worse which would be completely opposite of Shirley's intentions.

[yezhanquan]

So far, the boys had been civil, most of the time. But, after this incident, all bets are off in the worst case scenario.

[Aquaman OS]

Both of them blaming each other would be absurd. Lelouch is blaming himself and the Geass as far as we know. Suzaku could blame Lelouch for getting her involved in the first place but Lelouch would agree with him, and then what could Suzaku say?

[yezhanquan]

Wait a second. Does Suzaku know that Lulu has regained his memories? The "those who know" and those "who don't" lists are now out of my mind.

[Aquaman OS]

He doesn't have proof but he thinks he might have. He will find out definitely later on though.