Macross Frontier - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[monir]

Here is the exchange between Alto and Klan involving Ranka to the best of my understanding:

Spoiler for episode 23 specific:

Alto: "Then I met her. I decided to join SMS to protect her. To fight, to protect.... from there on forever...."

Klan: "Reminiscing about the old times suddenly!?"

Alto: "It's true that I might have been running away so far... not noticing many things. But that too is over with. This small little world that can break at the slightest compromise of it's balance,................ yet, people live here and wish to continue to live here. So if Ranka is under Vajraa's influence, if her song is used to bring our destruction.... then I will.... kill Ranka."

Klan: "Alto, is that your love?" From the context Klan is asking the question, it seems she actually confirming if that's how he defines the word "love."

Sheryl to herself who happens walk into the conversation from behind the entrance door to the roof: "Those are long understood. But for now, .... just a little longer......"

The episode touched up on a lot of the underlying mysteries that have been driving the show thus far. It includes Grace's agenda, interprets how Alto defines "love," Ranka's memories, and the Varjraa hive mind.

Some screens:

[ReddyRedWolf]

I'm beginning to suspect Grace and Galaxy Anonymous was the reason why the Global was attacked.

Brera called Grace Colonel.

Even though Grace was born on Global she became a UN Spacy officer on Macross Galaxy.

But as with some UN officers of that era she was corruptible and became their spy on Dr. Mao's work.

Galaxy Anonymous, a bunch of cyborgs, offered her eternal life. Their plan was to take the very existence of the Vajra and become god like.

But their attempt to take control of them and Ranka's singing led to the attack on Global. Doing it while Ranshe was with her kids.

But where is Mao? I think Grace and company captured her and used her to produce Sheryl.

The earring coming from Sheryl's mother was not a lie. Somewhere along the line Mao manages to sneak away Sheryl in Galaxy. But due to her old age Mao expired leaving Sheryl alone as an orphan. Till Grace manages to find Sheryl again as a street urchin.

[sekidousai]

lolxs Kawamori is tougher than a cockroach. It would take more than that to kill him. ^^

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by monir

Here is the exchange between Alto and Klan involving Ranka to the best of my understanding:

Spoiler for episode 23 specific:

Alto: "Then I met her. I decided to join SMS to protect her. To fight, to protect.... from there on forever...."

Klan: "Reminiscing about the old times suddenly!?"

Alto: "It's true that I might have been running away so far... not noticing many things. But that too is over with. This small little world that can break at the slightest compromise of it's balance,................ yet, people live here and wish to continue to live here. So if Ranka is under Vajraa's influence, if her song is used to bring our destruction.... then I will.... kill Ranka."

Klan: "Alto, is that your love?" From the context Klan is asking the question, it seems she actually confirming if that's how he defines the word "love."

Sheryl to herself who happens walk into the conversation from behind the entrance door to the roof: "Those are long understood. But for now, .... just a little longer......"

The episode touched up on a lot of the underlying mysteries that have been driving the show thus far. It includes Grace's agenda, interprets how Alto defines "love," Ranka's memories, and the Varjraa hive mind.

Thank you for clearing that up Monir.

[glyph]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

I'm beginning to suspect Grace and Galaxy Anonymous was the reason why the Global was attacked.

Brera called Grace Colonel.

Brera has his Major/Wing Commander rank because of his squadron leader position. If Grace was assigned as his CO, they gave her the Colonel rank to be able to order him around. It doesn't mean she's a career military spy.

OTOH, she's a xenobiologist, pilot, expert hacker, assassin, manager. Is there anything our international woman of mystery can't do?

[Seifall]

Originally Posted by Teletha

They showed he wanted to protect her (we knew that already), but other then that they did not say he loved her. There are also different types of love. You are just concluding that all on your own.

If I'm concluding that( he loves her ) on my own, then your kiss ( which logically didn't happen) is also, a conclusion that you made by yourself .
Sheryl said " i knew about it all along .. but just for a little longer I wanted...."
She find out he loves Ranka but didn't want to believe it and wanted to be with him....

You have no logic at all. If he realized he "loved" Ranka at the end of 23, how did that stop the kiss at the end of episode 22? It doesn't work that way. The beginning of 23 clearly shows Alto and Sheryl are basically living together happily and Alto is comfortable enough to carry her to bed when she tells him too. There is nothing in 23 at all that says they didn't kiss, probably quite the opposite.

Spoiler for This damn kiss :):

My .......
What kiss ?
Did you see the kiss in question ? The kiss didn't happen and since they didn't were lovey dovey even when they showe us live together now, you can conclude that on your own.
He carried her to her bed and they had fun .... but did you see Alto 's love other than a friendship way there ? Why didn't they keep your " kiss " of the episode 22 if they were so like lovers ?
There is nothing in 23 at all that says they didn't kiss, probably quite the opposite.
I totally disagree. It's indeed quite the opposite .

To add, the kiss is not a big deal and has never been a big deal to me. I think they did (as do most people), but how Alto reacted to her is more the story then anything.

The link with his mother is obvious now....
He doesn't want to let her die with painful moment like with his mother.
He wants to show her how she can keep enjoying the life and had fun, because he is there, here to protect her in her dream .
When he thinks about her, he thinks about his mother dying, that's why they gave us hints since episode 18 in Alto's reaction towards Sheryl.

Originally Posted by ippus

And Let's remember Ranka's plane was torn to shreds by Ai-kun. Clearly this means Alto is going to die by Ai-kun's evil hands.

It was Alto's plane in episode 17.
And ai kun did catch Ranka's plane in 21 but keep it uncut.
Ai kun is sure a surprise here.


@magnuskun (sorry i lost the quote .. )

Spoiler for Sheryl found out ...:

Sheryl said " i knew about it all along .. but just for a little longer I wanted...."
She knows he loves Ranka but wanted to believe that her love was enough for him .
The paperplane wasn't an allusion to her death but to the love triangle, she wanted to live this dream with him until the end but knows who he really loves now.
He joined SMS because of her, he wanted to protect her, he said it himself .
She overhearded it, yes, but didn't misinterpret anything since Klan was the one who asks him if Ranka was in fact the one and he didn't respond anything.
The paperplane falled because she couldn't reach him. " I wanted to land on your planet" , she realized she couldn't because Ranka was the one for him.

[magnuskn]

Oh, I give up on this one. Take it away, Tak, whenever you get back from work.

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by glyph

OTH, she's a xenobiologist, pilot, expert hacker, assassin, manager. Is there anything our international woman of mystery can't do?

Bring back Ed's mother from the dead

[golthin]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Oh, I give up on this one. Take it away, Tak, whenever you get back from work.

it is funny how many people fall for the trolling! this episode only show us that Alto had feelings for Ranka! Ranka was the one that basically broke up her relationship with him. Currently Alto is with Sheryl regardless of why he is with her. Kawamori only wanted us to know that he had feelings for Ranka, even though many sheryl's fan want to deny it. Even though they got their pairing, Altoxsheryl), they don't want to accept that Alto also felt that strongly about Ranka.

[Seifall]

golthin. Glad to see I'm not the only one to think that !

People give up each time I give them prooves of what I'm saying...

[TwilightHack]

Originally Posted by golthin

it is funny how many people fall for the trolling! this episode only show us that Alto had feelings for Ranka! Ranka was the one that basically broke up her relationship with him. Currently Alto is with Sheryl regardless of why he is with her. Kawamori only wanted us to know that he had feelings for Ranka, even though many sheryl's fan want to deny it. Even though they got their pairing, Altoxsheryl), they don't want to accept that Alto also felt that strongly about Ranka.

I think you misunderstood the conversation and to the context of which the word love was said.

I don't mind the whole Alto feelings thing, but the whole back to Ranka thing no.

[sekidousai]

Wow a big cannonball fired to the Titanic... Prepare for return fire ^^... Take cover ^^^

Can't wait to get a hold of the ep. this could be the tip of the iceberg ^^

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by golthin

it is funny how many people fall for the trolling! this episode only show us that Alto had feelings for Ranka! Ranka was the one that basically broke up her relationship with him. Currently Alto is with Sheryl regardless of why he is with her. Kawamori only wanted us to know that he had feelings for Ranka, even though many sheryl's fan want to deny it. Even though they got their pairing, Altoxsheryl), they don't want to accept that Alto also felt that strongly about Ranka.

I simply don´t see any evidence at all that he feels in the same way about Ranka as he does about Sheryl. There has been absolutely zero development on the romantic front for AxR since episode 13, at least from his side.

I can see that he cares about her as an older brother, as a good friend. But there has been next to none from him in almost all the series. Seriously! Episode 5 he groomed his hair before going to the Miss Macross contest, episodes 12 and 13 there was a bit of romantic tension.... that´s 10 episodes now, after that the most emotional he got with her was when she ran off.

It´s the reality of how the show has portrayed the Alto - Ranka relationship that makes me ( and others ) break out in hives when thinking about how those two could still end up together at this point, when there has been such a strong foundation for a Sheryl X Alto relationship.

[monir]

Originally Posted by golthin

it is funny how many people fall for the trolling! this episode only show us that Alto had feelings for Ranka! Ranka was the one that basically broke up her relationship with him. Currently Alto is with Sheryl regardless of why he is with her. Kawamori only wanted us to know that he had feelings for Ranka, even though many sheryl's fan want to deny it. Even though they got their pairing, Altoxsheryl), they don't want to accept that Alto also felt that strongly about Ranka.

Quoted for the truth, but let's not delve into the pairing issues. It will be troublesome to clean up the mess later if shippers start gathering in numbers. Take pity. Beside, the episode was way too interesting and didn't really spend much time to reflect on the raging pairing debate that seem spark at the drop of a pantsu.

The evil, conniving Grace was magnificent once again.

[glyph]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

The earring coming from Sheryl's mother was not a lie. Somewhere along the line Mao manages to sneak away Sheryl in Galaxy. But due to her old age Mao expired leaving Sheryl alone as an orphan. Till Grace manages to find Sheryl again as a street urchin.

That sounds like a fairly plausible explanation, actually.

[Seifall]

Spoiler for The scene between Klan and Alto:

Alto :"Why did you join the SMS Klan?"
Klan:" "This is a tradition for us......."
She thinks about Michel....
Alto :"I thought that too... That I would become an actor.But I loved the sky and wanted to be a pilot...."
Alto thinks about Ranka
Alto:"And... I met her.I choose to join SMS to protect her. Fighting, protecting and forever after that..." (to be with her forever ? )
Klan:"All of a sudden speaking about the past..."
Alto: "It's true... that maybe I had been running up to now. Pretending I didn't notice a lot of things." (huh guess about who he is talking here....)
Alto:"But. That too will end.　This world can be detroyed at any time... But everyone's living here. They want to continue living here. That's why... If Ranka is going to be made into a tool by the Vajra. If her songs are going to be used to destroy us. I will (he takes a deep breath) kill Ranka."
Klan:"Alto... that is your love? "(she is talking about Ranka it's obvious... )
Sheryl:"I knew it all along. But just for now... just a little longer..."

Yes, no one could misunderstood the context of which the word love was said...
He loves her .. I think it's obvious now...

Spoiler for sheryl , brera:

But someone has an explanation about the little sheryl looking the window ?
People talked about a cure... I think she may be they key ....
And Brera is Ranka' " big brother" no doubt about it now.

[sekidousai]

ZOMG!!!!!! (i'm annoying i know.)

If the scene where Sheryl is in the stairs were true, then i have a pretty good idea what Alto and Klan just said.... i could see it now the posts coming ^^.

[Teletha]

I don't get saying Sheryl fans are falling for the trolling, when it could be Ranka fans falling for the trolling right now. Or maybe we are all being trolled? Obviously Alto loves both Sheryl and Ranka, as did Hikaru love both Misa and Minmay, but in the end he had to pick one. This sets up the finale. Sheryl will push him away and sing until she dies, unless she's given a reason to do otherwise. Ranka is damsel in distress again with the Brera issue still needing to be resolved. There are pretty huge death flags on him, as well as Sheryl.

[CeruleaFeng]

Originally Posted by Seifall

Spoiler for The scene between Klan and Alto:

Alto :"Why did you join the SMS Klan?"
Klan:" "This is a tradition for us......."
She thinks about Michel....
Alto :"I thought that too... That I would become an actor.But I loved the sky and wanted to be a pilot...."
Alto thinks about Ranka
Alto:"And... I met her.I choose to join SMS to protect her. Fighting, protecting and forever after that..." (to be with her forever ? )
Klan:"All of a sudden speaking about the past..."
Alto: "It's true... that maybe I had been running up to now. Pretending I didn't notice a lot of things." (huh guess about who he is talking here....)
Alto:"But. That too will end.　This world can be detroyed at any time... But everyone's living here. They want to continue living here. That's why... If Ranka is going to be made into a tool by the Vajra. If her songs are going to be used to destroy us. I will (he takes a deep breath) kill Ranka."
Klan:"Alto... that is your love? "(she is talking about Ranka it's obvious... )
Sheryl:"I knew it all along. But just for now... just a little longer..."

Yes, no one could misunderstood the context of which the word love was said...
He loves her .. I think it's obvious now...

Or she could be talking about killing Vajra. Or killing in general. Or, hell, protecting the sky. Klan's question was horribly ambiguous.

'Sides, I don't see Alto confirming what she said. All I see is Sheryl possibly misunderstanding what was said. Y'know, like when Ranka saw Alto holding Sheryl after she almost fainted? Both jumped to conclusions.

The "M" in "Macross" stands for "misunderstanding". That's why it's called drama. Hurr.

Kawamori has you wrapped around his finger, Seifall.

[AlaAlba]

Originally Posted by Seifall

Spoiler for The scene between Klan and Alto:

Alto :"Why did you join the SMS Klan?"
Klan:" "This is a tradition for us......."
She thinks about Michel....
Alto :"I thought that too... That I would become an actor.But I loved the sky and wanted to be a pilot...."
Alto thinks about Ranka
Alto:"And... I met her.I choose to join SMS to protect her. Fighting, protecting and forever after that..." (to be with her forever ? )
Klan:"All of a sudden speaking about the past..."
Alto: "It's true... that maybe I had been running up to now. Pretending I didn't notice a lot of things." (huh guess about who he is talking here....)
Alto:"But. That too will end.　This world can be detroyed at any time... But everyone's living here. They want to continue living here. That's why... If Ranka is going to be made into a tool by the Vajra. If her songs are going to be used to destroy us. I will (he takes a deep breath) kill Ranka."
Klan:"Alto... that is your love? "(she is talking about Ranka it's obvious... )
Sheryl:"I knew it all along. But just for now... just a little longer..."

Yes, no one could misunderstood the context of which the word love was said...
He loves her .. I think it's obvious now...

yeah right, it s just another your conclusion. IF alto answered "yeah", which he did not, then maybe your re right.
I ll just sit and see what he ll gonna do on next 2 episode.

Originally Posted by monir

Quoted for the truth, but let's not delve into the pairing issues. It will be troublesome to clean up the mess later if shippers start gathering in numbers. Take pity. Beside, the episode was way too interesting and didn't really spend much time to reflect on the raging pairing debate that seem spark at the drop of a pantsu.

The evil, conniving Grace was magnificent once again.

you re absolutely right
and we nearly know what is her purpose now, not much surprise.
from what she said to Ranshe: to combine Implant network theory and Vajra's zero-time fold communication...
maybe she want to build human bees community .