Higurashi Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Matrim]

I knew I should check the tips one more time before asking that question.
It's interesting that the time of death for K1 is a few days later than the one of Shion, I guess he has been recovering for a few days before Ooishi came to tell him about the "walking dead", possibly causing the hallucination. Unless Oyashiro-sama sent the ghost of Mion or something, that is.
I guess K1's heart couldn't cope with the extrme stress of seeing this "ghost". Although it's weird that he saw or at least thought he saw quite scary things in Onikakushi, too, yet he didn't suffer from heart failure. What if his death was caused by yet another mysterious drug?

[Alu]

Originally Posted by Matrim

That's not true, Ooishi describes Rika's death in detail. Apparently she was killed in pretty much the same way as in Tatarigoroshi-hen.

You sure about that or this is a conjecture? We don't see what happens with Keiichi apart from witnessing him being attacked by an angry psycho twin, most likely in his imagination.

The explanation you are putting forward does seem the most obvious...and that's exactly why I don't buy it. Looking at the deaths alone, we might try with other guesses - let's say Onibaba staying alive - gas disaster (assuming it happens in Onikakushi). Or Shion dying - no disaster.

Ah.., you got me on the part where Oishi describes Rika's death with detail.., I guess I overlooked that on episode 15.., however I was positive that her type of death had been similar to what happened in Tatarigoroshi-hen.., since it would make the most sence if I base my previous speculation on it

On the Keiichi status at Meakashi-hen / Watanagashi-hen.., I always speculated that due to his paranoia and on how he became so mentaly unstable by the end of the events.., that that image of Shion was all in his head.., and due to the shock of it.., ended up causing his death.

However like theacefrehley and BakaOnna previously mencioned.., the latest TIP's posted come to comprove this, in which in fact.., ended up beeing as what I posted.

Well, obvious or not.., I was only able to come to the conclusion / possible conclusion that on how Rika dies influences the disaster or not.., after going through and reviewing all the death lists , and note that some are not mencioned on the TIP's.., as what most happened on Onikakushi-hen; hence so many status beeing left "unknown" aswell.

However currently its the only explination I find for something that influences the disaster or not; Onibaba's status seems irrelevant to me.., aswell as some of the other characters (such as doctor Irei aswell for example) on this aspect.

It seems to me and as we saw through the notes of Shion.., that Onibaba did control somewhat part of what happened regarding the curse.., but all and all on more "un-natural aspects" her involvement I belive was none whatsoever.
Hence it wouldn't make sence to place her status.., since again.. on this.. she is irrelevent.

Or should I say.., not as relevant as all the characters I chose to post the status

I still cannot give full support to my speculations.., for alot of the misteries on Onikakushi-hen are still left on the open.
Hence.., I hope that maybe once Tsumihoroboshi-hen progresses we can see if the way on how Rika dies has any influence on the disaster happening or not

Oh.. and Shion seems to die in every arc except one; so far only on Onikakushi-hen we cannot tell.., since her status is "unknown", and I do emphazise "unknown" here
Anyway.., its pretty safe to say that she is not the one who causes any influence to the disaster.

-
Edit :
-

Oki, I went back to episode 15 and reviewed the details on Rika's death in Himatsubushi-hen.

So.., based on what we know from the TIP's and from what we saw on the Episodes ; here is the now Full death status list on all the Arcs currently to this point so far :

Spoiler for length:

On Onikakushi-hen :

Spoiler:

Tomitake Jirou - Status : Dead.
Possible suicide / injected with an unknown drug that cause him to carve his fingers into his throat.

Takano Miyo - Status : Missing.

Houjo Satoko - Status : Unknown.

Furude Rika - Status : Unknown.

Sonozaki Mion - Status : Dead.
Murdered by Keiichi.

Ryuguu Rena - Status : Dead.
Murdered by Keiichi.

Maebara Keiichi - Status : Dead.
Possible suicide, death caused to loss of blood / resembles the same death sympthoms as Tomitake Jirou.

Sonozaki Shion - Status : Unknown.

*Gas Disaster : Unknown*

On Watanagashi-hen :

Spoiler:

Tomitake Jirou - Status : Dead.
Possible suicide / injected with an unknown drug that cause him to carve his fingers into his throat.

Takano Miyo - Status : Dead.
Strangled to death in the mountains of Gifu Prefecture. Corpse was later burned.

Houjo Satoko - Status : Dead.
Murdered by Sonozaki Shion.
Cause of death: hemorrhagic shock from multiple pierce wounds over the entire body.

Furude Rika - Status : Dead.
Suicide.
Cause of death: hemorrhagic shock from a pierce wound in the throat area, death very similar to that of Tomitake Jirou's.

Sonozaki Mion - Status : Dead.
Murdered by Sonozaki Shion.
Cause of death: fell from the vertical escape tunnel.

Ryuguu Rena - Status : Alive.

Maebara Keiichi - Status : Dead.
Passed away at the hospital. Cause of death: chronic and acute heart failure.

Sonozaki Shion - Status : Dead.
Suicide.
Died by falling off the veranda from her hideout.

*Gas Disaster : did NOT happen*

On Tatarigoroshi-hen :

Spoiler:

Tomitake Jirou - Status : Dead.
Possible suicide / injected with an unknown drug that cause him to carve his fingers into his throat.

Takano Miyo - Status : Dead.
Strangled to death in the mountains of Gifu Prefecture. Corpse was later burned.

Houjo Satoko - Status : Missing.

Furude Rika - Status : Dead.
Murdered on the shrine compounds.

Sonozaki Mion - Status : Dead.
Great Hinamizawa Disaster.

Ryuguu Rena - Status : Dead.
Great Hinamizawa Disaster.

Maebara Keiichi - Status : Dead.
Attempted suicide at local hospital on 1983.08.29
Fell under a severe fever and passed away two days later on November 30, 1983.

Sonozaki Shion - Status : Dead.
Committed suicide at local hospital.

*Gas Disaster : Happens*

On Himatsubushi-hen :

Spoiler:

No specific details on how any of the events on 1983 toke place where given to us.
None except one.

Furude Rika - Status : Dead.
Murdered.
After having been submited to some sort of drug, her abdomen was cut open and her internal organs where pulled out.

According to Oishi's description (episode 15, 17:25 - 17:48) :

" on the same day as the disaster some Senior citizens who where visiting the Shrine discovered her corpse, naked and barefoot.
From what we do know is that she was carried to that place after beeing put into a sputor with drugs,
Where her abdomen was cut open and her internal organs intentionally drawn out. "

Then on Akasaka's flashback, we obtain the following information aswell (episode 15, 20:35 - 20:45).

- From Rika herself :

" this day, on June 1983.. or perhaps a few days after... I will be killed. "

All the previous events from 1979 to 1982 followed the same path through all the arcs.

*Gas Disaster : Happens*

On Meakashi-hen :

Spoiler:

Tomitake Jirou - Status : Dead.
Possible suicide / injected with an unknown drug that cause him to carve his fingers into his throat.

Takano Miyo - Status : Dead.
Strangled to death in the mountains of Gifu Prefecture. Corpse was later burned.

Houjo Satoko - Status : Dead.
Murdered by Sonozaki Shion.
Cause of death: hemorrhagic shock from multiple pierce wounds over the entire body.

Furude Rika - Status : Dead.
Suicide.
Cause of death: hemorrhagic shock from a pierce wound in the throat area, death very similar to that of Tomitake Jirou's.

Sonozaki Mion - Status : Dead.
Murdered by Sonozaki Shion.
Cause of death: fell from the vertical escape tunnel.

Ryuguu Rena - Status : Alive.
As of present day in 2004, alive and well. Currently residing in Shishibone City.

Maebara Keiichi - Status : Dead.
Passed away at the hospital. Cause of death: chronic and acute heart failure.

Sonozaki Shion - Status : Dead.
Suicide.
Died by falling off the veranda from her hideout.

*Gas Disaster : did NOT happen*

As we can now see, Rika's type of Death on Himatsubushi-hen is supposedly equal to that of on Tatarigoroshi-hen.
So far.., the only 2 arcs we know of where the Gas Disaster did occur.

[LostBlue]

I finally got to watch EP 21... it wasn't as horrific as I thought it would be, but *sigh* It's quite unfortunate the shear amount of stuff they skipped.

Spoiler for Other Skipped stuff:

The "Curse System"
They never explained Shion's theory for the Curse. She actually had a very rational explanation. According to her theory this was the truth behind the Curse:

1) Someone got on the bad side of Onibaba

2) Onibaba would make a subtle yet unpleasant statement about that person (ie Wouldn't it be sad if ______ didn't come to the Festival?)

3) That statement will spread around the entire village much like how Shion made the statement about K1 knowing Rika was in danger in this EP. That statement officially made that person the enemy of the village and the target for the curse.

4) Now anytime anywhere the opportunities comes about that person will be killed by someone. That someone could be anyone and no one will question that person about it, nor will anyone will ask anything about the incident, since everyone in the village is that person. Since no one knew who specifically did it and every year it was committed by a different random villager the secrecy was kept. This is the System of the Curse.

Of course this turns out to be false though. Shion tries to manipulate the System to using Keiichi as bait but nothing ever happens to him.


Another thing that was skipped... The Sonozaki Heirloom. Only the Sonozaki Head knows of its existence. Mion herself never knew about it until she corners Onibaba about Satoshi. The Sonozaki Heirloom is a tradition. This tradition is... to bluff. It was greatly used during the Dam Contruction. There was no doubt that the Sonozaki Family did illegal stuff during the Dam Construction and everyone knew it. But also anytime anything happened that was in favor of the Sonozaki Family (whether they were involved or not), all Onibaba had to do was smile and laugh a little, and everyone (the village, the cops, even the other Gosankes) believe they were pulling strings behind the scenes. This Bluff makes the Sonozaki seem more powerful then they really are and maintains the power and the image of the Sonozaki Head.

Overall, the anime Meakashi Hen wasn't bad. Even if I didn't have my game knowledge I still think I would have hated that end. They should have given Shion's death a little more closure (like the Akane or the Oishi TIP) even if it was for a minute. *sigh* oh well.

[aliensporebomb]

Alu:

Very long and involved and detail and it makes me think:

Spoiler:

Each event happened to each set of characters in different universes
or sub-universes.

In other words, in the five universes above you have five Mions, Shions,
Rikas, Satokos, Keiichis, etc.

It is almost like throwing the dice in each universe results in a different
outcome and ultimately one will prove to be the least displeasing outcome.

Fascinating possibilities indeed.

[Wanderer]

I have had the strong suspicion that Rika's type of death could have something to do with the gas disaster ever since episode 15.

Really, I think that Meakashi-hen is only a minor step in the greater mystery about what all these arcs are, and who is important in the greater picture. Basically, I think of Meakashi-hen as having its main mystery (The identity of the twins) as a more or less classic, logical type... which is within a greater supernatural mystery. It is why we see it first of the answer arcs, kind of as a prelude to the main course.

Up until now, I've thought that the main possibilities for the connection between the arcs consisted of:

A) The simple "Logical Answer". They are not even different, the viewer is just presented with information that makes it seem like there are these different events that coincide with the same time.

B) Parallel realities. They are different outcomes from a different set of decisions. The arcs are similar in content and setting, but there is no further connection between arcs.

C) Resets. Some people (or gods) have memory of the previous arcs. It may also be possible for normal people to remember as well (for example, Keiichi's memories at the end of Tatarigoroshi-hen of events we saw in Onikakushi-hen)

D) Transversable realities. They are like B, but there is a connection of some kind.

Up until now, I've more or less been undecided on whether I liked C or D better. The new poem for the next chapter

Spoiler:

At the first time, I do my best to try again
against the inevitable tragedy.

In the second time, I become disgusted
towards the inevitable tragedy.

The third time, disgust is overwhelmed into painfulness.
But by the seventh time, this all becomes a farce comedy.

-Frederica Bernkastel

pretty much confirms resets (C) being the answer. However, I've been ignoring:

E) Transverable Resets. It is like C but there is also a connection of some kind in absolute time.

I had this kind of idea floating in my mind for a while, but couldn't get my head wrapped around it very easiliy. For beings with memory, any two-way interaction with other arcs would be, in a way, time travel... even if the absolute time in both arcs was the same. Basically, it leads to a paradox.

However, what if the being(s) that observe the multiple outcomes have a non-linear sense of time? It is a common idea in many religions that gods have this attribute. We also know that Rika, or more likely, something that spoke through Rika, predicted the future accurately. Could this be how she(it?) knew the future?

At this point, I believe it is probably C, but I won't rule E out just yet.

The main questions now are:

How are the resets activated? Do the resets trigger on their own, or does someone or something make a decision to activate a reset? It doesn't seem to be anyone's death, since we've seen everyone die at least once and the world still moves on its own after their death. Or are multiple scenarios "run" at the same time?

How are the resets related in time, both absolute (for the outside world) and subjective (for beings able to percieve each successive reset with memory)? We are able to see many years passed the events of 1983 at times. Does it take that long to reset, or (again) are multiple scenarios "run" at the same time?

Who has memory of previous resets? Does Rika? Or does only whatever speaks through her have memory? Or does everyone have a dormant memory as well?

At what point in time do the resets diverge from? The time of Tsumiboroshi-hen?

Anyway, just things to think about. I think I'm gonna try to convince my friends who have a modded PS2 to get the game, or maybe even get it for them. It is for PS2 right?

[Shuin4]

I was rewatching Meakashi-hen the other day, and I just realized I probably feel the worst for Shion. I can definitely understand why she went on her murdering rampage, and even how she had her mental unstable-ness beforehand. (

I mean, first of all, she was supposed to be killed at birth. For whatever reason she wasn't, but she still had to pretend she had no relation with the Sonozaki family or Hinamizawa. She basically didn't have anyone at all, except for her bodyguard (it didn't seem like she exactly missed anyone at boarding school)

Then she falls in love with a guy who didn't even know she existed until their last meeting. She finally has SOMEONE that could make her happy, but he kinda dies/mysteriously disappears.

Also, was it me, or did Shion have like no friends, except for Mion? Whenever she pretended to lock herself up in the prison cage, it was like nobody cared (except for Keichii, but that's because he still thought she was there)

It's like nobody even wanted a Shion to exist, which just makes that

Spoiler:

"I'm sorry for ever being born"

line even better.

EDIT:: Ok, now that I've actually watched the episode...

Spoiler:

I can see what the game players mean about Shion's death. It felt way too rushed, and for some reason it felt cheesey seeing her run down the stairs going "lol fooled u ghost mion", killing keichii (which could've been completely omitted since it added nothing more than "Praise me Satoshi!", coming back going "k done" and all of a sudden, slips and dies.

It would've been nice to hear a monlogue as she was getting back into her apartment, or even seeing her fall on the other roof like in the game and listen to her apologize for everything. Her death just seemed to quiet and too sudden.

Also, fix Shion's ladder scene already! I could understand Deen must've been rushing episode 7 and the other awkward facial contortion scenes so they couldn't fix them, but half the episode were reused scenes! Oh well, it didn't last as long as last time.

I did like the intenseness of the 1,000 I'm Sorry's scene though. I also liked how we realized Satoko was really the one who matured, and Shion was way too selfish to realize the one thing he wanted Shion to do when he was gone.

i did really like this episode, it's just that the last scene was too quick, especially for a character this show was centered around for 6 episodes.

[Menshi]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

C) Resets. Some people (or gods) have memory of the previous arcs. It may also be possible for normal people to remember as well (for example, Keiichi's memories at the end of Tatarigoroshi-hen of events we saw in Onikakushi-hen)

That option really does sound very likely. Has anyone else thought maybe this anime is following the "Donnie Darko" story line?Where the main character was the living receiver that needed to save the world by going throughout the events leading up to a disaster. And he had to go throughout the scenario's and see how he could stop it and what would happen to people *It really reminds me of Higurashi after the current arcs/tips* I sort of think Rika is the one that retains memories since she knew how and when she would die. And that her goal is to find whats the common link between what causes the disaster possibly?

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Now that you mention it, was this covered in the anime? I don't remember hearing it. Did they skip that part?

Spoiler for true identity of the twins:

Shion was actually born as Mion, and Mion was born as Shion.

Since "Mion" (that is, the Shion that we know) is the rightful heir to the Sonozaki family, she was favored over "Shion" (the Mion that we know) ever since they were little.

"Mion" and "Shion" disliked the different treatments they got: they're the same person, so why should one be treated different from the other?

That's why they began swapping identities so they could both enjoy the privileges that "Mion" has. Sometimes Mion would become Shion, and Shion would become Mion. In a way, both of them are Mion, and both of them are Shion.

However, one day, while "Shion" was pretending to be Mion, she was taken away and was given the demon tattoo which marked her as the next head of the Sonozaki family.

... Starting from that day, "Shion" lost her identity as Shion, and became Mion. "Mion" lost her identity as Mion, and became Shion.

That's why Mion has always felt bad towards Shion for stealing her identity, because it was Shion (the original Mion) who should've been chosen as the next head of the Sonozaki family, not her.

When Shion locked Mion up inside the underground jail cell, they finally reverted back to their original identities, hence the "onee" from Mion.

You can also see Shion referring to Mion as "Shion" in the final TIPs as well.

Now you know the true meanings behind Mion and Shion's coversation inside the library!

This is a shameful thing that the anime makers did here. I understand they left a lot of interesting things out, and have since been able to accept some misses but...

Spoiler:

This revelation is the final answer to the mystery of the twins. How can you leave that out!? It was the whole point of Watanagashi-hen/Meakashi-hen!

I was quite disillusioned with HnNKn when the anime revealed that the total of the mystery was that Shion just took over. I am quite relieved (though not surprised) that there was more to it.

I've been trying to get some of my friends to watch the anime for a while, but I've changed my mind. Even though our Japanese is only so-so, I will only recommend the game or the manga now. As for myself, I'm so far in that I may as well finish it.

[imac2much]

Spoiler:

Hm, did anyone else notice how Mion (the Mion that 'suicided' by slipping off the balcony) was wearing different clothes in Watanagashihen and Meakashihen? I'm not sure if this is a big deal but it stood out for me. Why would Mion (Shion that we know) dress as Mion even before deciding to go over to Keiichi's house? And in that case, wouldn't it seem weird that who the police believed to be Shion was wearing Mion's clothes when she suicided off the balcony? It makes more sense that they were fooled into thinking it was Shion in Watanagashihen since she was wearing Shion's clothes (from the brief glimpse we see at the end of ep8 before they cover her dead body). I dunno... is this just an oversight of the animators?

[Vicke]

When an episode thread reaches 5 pages even before the fansub is out, you know that it is an controversial episode . As I haven't played the game I think this ep was good but not great. Didnt expect Shions death to be an accident and I didnt think that Shion really stabbed K1. This ep also strengthened my beliefs that its an logical reason to the events. Also when looking at the preview it seems there is a new character introduction in next ep, interesting

[i0td]

Poor Satoko. I thought her arms would have been fallen off after the first few slashes.

Anyways, same as above poster. Just watched the fansub and originally I gave it passing marks. It brought closure to those who haven't enjoyed the game yet. This episode was as we expected, tying up the loose ends that were posed in the Watanagashi arc.

However, after going over the discussion in this thread by the game playing otakus, I can understand now the true potential this episode had and how instead of the events that us viewers could have probably inferred from the earlier arcs, we could have gotten a dose of something with much more depth to it. I would really like to have enjoyed watching the Shion monologue scene that those of you who have played the game have mentioned.

The game definitely intrigues me, because it seems to bring about that sense of complete closure that is somewhat amiss for those who haven't played it. I admit that some explanations still confuse. However, it also seems that watching the anime after playing the game has only brought disappointment to the majority.

[Sinestra]

OMFG Once again Higurashi manages to freak the hell out. I knew this episode was going to be graphic but it was still hard to watch and yet at the same time i couldnt keep my eyes off the screen. Poor Satoko there is no way her arms would have held out that long i cant even fathom the pain she was in. At least Mion went quickly the stun gun knocked her out she she really did feel anything. All the other events with K seem to have played like they should have.

I was hoping to have gotten a glimpse at the bottom of the well and see just how many bodies were down there.

Do we know for sure who/what kill Satoshi? if so i think i might have missed it.

Not fimilar with the upcoming arc can someone give me a quick run down?

[BakaOnna]

After understanding the dialogue, this episode turned out all right for me. It's still a 7.5. Anyway, I like Sakoto a lot more after her speech. I feel really bad for the characters in this series. They always get all this bad crap thrown at them. It's too late to post any theories I have with the incidents and how they're related to the Sonozakis so I'll just leave that for another time.

[Prinkster]

As if it wasn't already secured in my spot as number one anime of all time, episode 21 has just further reinforced my notion that this anime freaking rocks. The mystery, the suspense, the questions...

But above all, the characters. I think only Elfen Lied can even hope to come close to even rivalling Higurashi's amazing characters and their development. Shion's development in this episode is nothing short of brilliance. Mion's characterization that occured a few episodes earlier...wow. What else can boast such dynamic, interesting characters?

[LostBlue]

Originally Posted by Vicke

Also when looking at the preview it seems there is a new character introduction in next ep, interesting

New? XD

Originally Posted by i0td

I would really like to have enjoyed watching the Shion monologue scene that those of you who have played the game have mentioned.

I may TL it as it was my favorite scene in this arc but it's 22+ pages of text so I probably will not post it anytime soon...

Originally Posted by i0td

I admit that some explanations still confuse.

Ask anything that confused you about this chapter and I'll do my best to explain it to you as long as it's not a spoiler. (I've already slap on the wrist once in this chapter ^^; ). I think after the anime ends I'll make a summary of questions and their answers for each of first 3 arcs.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I was hoping to have gotten a glimpse at the bottom of the well and see just how many bodies were down there.

I've posted this in a few places but this is what exactly was found in the well.
The bodies of Sonozaki Oryou, Kimiyoshi Kiichirou, Furude Rika (there was a broken syringe in her pocket), Hojou Satoko and 3 partial skeletons that have been in the well for at least 10 years. The police believe if they dig deeper they may find more bodies. (Source Watanagashi Hen epilouge)

The key is they have to dig meaning anything under there will be older than the 3 partial skeletons. Since all three skeletons were in the well for over 10 years this pretty much confirms that the Sonozaki were not involved in any of the killings in the past 5 years.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Do we know for sure who/what kill Satoshi?

No. His status is still unconfirmed as "Onikakushi"

Not fimilar with the upcoming arc can someone give me a quick run down?

Spoiler:

Answer Arc~ Chap 6 (last anime chapter)
This chapter is for Keiichi and Rena fans.
Rena...

What it answers: Most of Onikakushi Hen's mysteries and a few of Tatarigoroshi.

This chapter is NOT a near mirror image of a previous chapter like how close Meakashi and Watanagashi were. There are many similarities but this is an entirely new chapter, just one of many possibilities in the world of Higurashi.

Originally Posted by Prinkster

Shion's development in this episode is nothing short of brilliance. Mion's characterization that occurred a few episodes earlier...wow. What else can boast such dynamic, interesting characters?

For Shion fans, re-watch Tatarigoroshi, especially after watching Tsumihoroboshi

[rogueblade]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler:

「さぁいくらでも試してみろ!!　私は泣かない、涙も見せない!!!　北条沙都子がどれほどの 強さを持つか 、試してみろおおぉおおぉお!!!」

"Here, try all you want!! I won't cry, nor will I show any tears!!! You want to see just how strong Houjou Satoko is? Go ahead and tryyyy!!!"

The line was pretty much the final straw that broke Satoko free from the image of being a "crybaby". When she finally died, the gamers were given the impression that Satoko has went off to reunite with Satoshi because she has proven herself worthy.

Shion, on the other hand, was left behind, and will never be able to meet Satoshi again because she completely failed in keeping the one favor Satoshi asked of her before he disappeared: to take care of Satoko for him.

Uh....what?

Spoiler for In the episode:

But Satoko DOES say something along those lines - she says she's not going to cry because she wants Satoshi to see how independant she is. At least, in the fansubbed version she does...
And it also shows the scene where Shion remembers Satoshi's last wish.

Although this is comin from a non-gamer, i thought this episode was EXCELLENT. I wasn't really annoyed that they re-used some footage of the previous arcs, as without it the story wouldn't have flowed as easily as it did. The Satoko scenes, and the final twists at the end were VERY well done, imo.
Yes, we were treated to the usual "10,000 faces of Mion/Shion" - in fact

Spoiler for For Mion's "gomena sai" (that's how you spell it right?):

I was actually waiting for Shion to go "Mion, if you pull 1,000 face-putty faces, i'll let keiichi go." Man, that would have made this series, i swear.

To be honest, i don't see why so many people are complaining about this episode. If it bugs you that so much was left out (although, i'll concur that the doll scene and Mion/Shion thing were pretty important), why don't you just watch the anime as the anime and not compare it to the game?
Oh well - Big thank you to the WinD FS group for the episode, as usual.

[Alu]

hmmm.. I have to say to me aswell.., this was another great episode

However I can understand why some said they where dissapointed, specialy those who played the game.., after seeing the episode, then looking at some of the spoilers regarding parts which weren't covered.., we can definitly say alot was left out..

Still.., they did what they could, and thanks to the TIP's & other posts.., I don't think anyone who sees it and then reads all the additional information will feel as if watanagashi-hen / meakashi-hen lacked in relation to the other arcs.

Spoiler for my thoughts on the episode:

Well finaly here we are at the conclusion of Meakashi-hen.., and where all the pieces to the events that toke place on Watanagashi-hen should fit.

Unfortunatly like I previously said.., after reading all the additional information & TIP's regarding the arc.., some aspects where cut off from the episode.., so unless we read them.. I recon we would not be able to get such a good view of the "entire picture" as if we just had seen the episode itself.

However it still gaved us alot of good moments, and those which I think its strong points rely on where definitly.. Satoko's scenes, Shion & Mion's last conversation and Shion's self-thoughts.

We have to hand it to Satoko.., even though we knew what was going to happen, I for one was not expecting her to be so strong near the end.

And much like rogueblade previously said.., her words did come somewhat along the line of " I won't cry, nor will I show any tears!!! ", but I belive the decided to emphazise the fact that she was doing this for her brother's love, as to show him that she was now strong rather then to show us she was proving to be strong by standing up to Shion.

Hence I belive the Satoko scene was done great.., I realy felt that the words she said had meening, and that she was trying to prove them true.
It also definitly helped as on how Shion cracked upon realising Satoshi's last wish.., which she had neglected up until so far.

Only after killing Satoko she came to realise this.., it was so perfect..

Up on next comes the last scenes of Shion & Mion before Shion throws Mion into the well.., altough I think according to what I read from those who played the game.., this was done diferently ?

However I belive this scene was of great importance because..

It revealed to us that Onibaba realy did pardon Shion.., and realy had no involment with Satoshi's dissapearence, as witness by Mion...; and judging by she acted.. I do belive that was the truth.
Which even makes Shion's story the more tragic..

And last.., as it turns out.. Shion's image of Satoshi-kun while facing the well on the last episode was just her wanting to belive she found him because after all Satoshi is NOT in the well.

Thanks to Lostblue for posting this :

Originally Posted by LostBlue

The bodies of Sonozaki Oryou, Kimiyoshi Kiichirou, Furude Rika (there was a broken syringe in her pocket), Hojou Satoko and 3 partial skeletons that have been in the well for at least 10 years. The police believe if they dig deeper they may find more bodies.

Which now takes me back to my first speculation that Satoshi might in fact be in the bottomless Marsh.., and Rena beeing the one who "onikakushi-ed" him away
Something I hope on Tsumiboroshi-hen I can prove right or rong.

On a last note now.., Shion's final scene.
Something that I think they changed aswell from the original game ?

However, this was definitly something that I would have found as if it had happened too fast, if I had not read the TIP's.., specialy.. this post :
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=111

Still.. I remain faithful into saying it was one of the episodes strong points because.., well.. despite beeing the conclusion.., Shion's "I'm sorry" while looking up to the Moon and seeing Satoshi was simply.. amazing..
Her tone of voice... the feelings that where put into words.., I was left speechless upon so much perfection when I saw this..

In the end.. even not having played the game.., I felt compleat; and this was without a doubt.. a great arc.

Will Tsumiboroshi-hen top it ?
I can't wait to see

Shion : "I'm sorry, everyone."

[Varion]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

More importantly, that stupid ambient music really pissed me off. Way to ruin your own dramatic scene, Deen.

What track did the sound novel use at that point? Just for comparison purposes.

But yeah, while I thought this arc was pretty good it definitely had the potential to be a lot more, even before I knew what was missed out. The two things that seem to be bugging me most now are:
1. The Faces - Really, stop it. It's not scary, it just detaches me from the scene half the time because they're that ridiculous. I really doubt they're going to fix all of these for the DVD release, and they're the main reason I may stop collecting. DVD1's still on its way - slow Amazon JP shipping is sloooow.
2. The Music - I liked the soundtrack originally, but maybe because I've got something to compare it to now it just feels... there. All the variations of Main Theme are still hauntingly good, as is that track from Tatari where Keiichi falls off the bridge, but apart from that they don't seem to do much other than drum or go 'oooo' with a chorus half the time - Kawai's work on Fate was far better. Just because music was an absolutely integral part of the sound novels (because text, sound effects, music and the occasional image was all they had) doesn't mean it's suddenly not important in the anime. Doubt they'll do anything about this at this point though. I'd kill to hear a new version of 彷徨いの言葉は天に導かれ just once, but what're the odds? None. I love that track.

Oh well, other than that I'm still enjoying it. I can deal with everything they've omitted seen as I know they're short on time, but it bugs me when they do things like that (especially the faces) seen as that's not understandable time constraints - that's sloppiness.

[i0td]

Originally Posted by LostBlue

Ask anything that confused you about this chapter and I'll do my best to explain it to you as long as it's not a spoiler. (I've already slap on the wrist once in this chapter ^^; ). I think after the anime ends I'll make a summary of questions and their answers for each of first 3 arcs.

More like fuzziness and how the arcs tie together. There is really enough speculation in this forum to make anyone's head spin. However, for the non-game playing viewer, the episodes in this arc do make much sense of the Watanagashi question arc, so I'm somewhat satisfied here.

But okay, let me take you up on your offer and ask you this one that has been somewhat bothering me.

Spoiler:

We see a lot of the Watanagashi arc explained well in this answer arc, but one thing was left out. At the very end of the arc in episode 8 after Keiichi was stabbed by Shion and hospitalized, was it Mion then who showed up in his ward? I've read that Keiichi could've been hallucinating this part, but I am not convinced. We know that Shion is dead, but Mion could've survived the fall into the well (who knows how many body broke her fall). So if I assume that it was Mion, I then have to ask, why would she be performing such a barbarous act?

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by i0td

More like fuzziness and how the arcs tie together. There is really enough speculation in this forum to make anyone's head spin. However, for the non-game playing viewer, the episodes in this arc do make much sense of the Watanagashi question arc, so I'm somewhat satisfied here.

But okay, let me take you up on your offer and ask you this one that has been somewhat bothering me.

Spoiler:

We see a lot of the Watanagashi arc explained well in this answer arc, but one thing was left out. At the very end of the arc in episode 8 after Keiichi was stabbed by Shion and hospitalized, was it Mion then who showed up in his ward? I've read that Keiichi could've been hallucinating this part, but I am not convinced. We know that Shion is dead, but Mion could've survived the fall into the well (who knows how many body broke her fall). So if I assume that it was Mion, I then have to ask, why would she be performing such a barbarous act?

Read TIPS #113