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Waven · 2011-01-06, 06:57

The one thing that helps Kurumi becoming so likable is that KnT does not have purely antagonistic characters... at all, and many shoujo series have this agenda.

However I don't think a "Kurumi-show" could work on its own. She is this poor, likable character because she is the "rejected side character" but then again she's also really pushy and doesn't flinch from using dirty tricks and deception. As a main girl this would be too much out of genre conventions, especially when looking at the target audience.
Sawako's strong point obviously is that she is special within these conventions.

On a side note, I really had to laugh at the flashback about misunderstandings being resolved by talking to each other

MeoTwister5 · 2011-01-06, 07:31

A Certain Point of View

It’s so easy to dislike Ume and at the same time so easy to be apologetic for her actions. In the end, for me, I don’t see her as atrociously evil character, but her actions and attitudes aren’t exactly that easy to forgive. At the end of the day she was selfish then, and she is selfish even now. She claimed to have liked Kazehaya and yet in her passive aggression almost all but ruined his romantic chances in middle school just so that she could get close to him, and even then she never did. She indirectly chased everyone away for a plan she never enacted.

That in itself is ironic because the person she would lose to is a person who never acted to get Kazehaya as a boyfriend in the first place. Talk about karma.

I am also completely loving the final shot of the ED:

Spoiler for Big pic.:

Kopi · 2011-01-06, 09:26

IMO, I like the recap. It tells the story from another perspectivewhich in this case Ume's who kind of disappeared somewhere in the second half(?) of season one.. lest we forget that she ever existed.. It also sets up nicely for the valentine's day episode.

Love the OP and ED btw.

Anh_Minh · 2011-01-06, 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

A Certain Point of View

It’s so easy to dislike Ume and at the same time so easy to be apologetic for her actions. In the end, for me, I don’t see her as atrociously evil character, but her actions and attitudes aren’t exactly that easy to forgive. At the end of the day she was selfish then, and she is selfish even now.

I'm reminded of Risa from Amagami. Of how so many refused to even acknowledge that what she did was wrong. That annoyed me. Kurumi's different. It helps that things didn't go to plan for her. In the end, I agree with you: she's not all that bad, but she persistently made bad choices.

When you compare her to Sawako... Sawako was ostracized, but her classmates were pretty honest about being scared of her. Kurumi, OTOH, was betrayed. And decided that, if the world was that way, she'd make it work for her. Sawako rose above it.

Does that mean Sawako is a better person? Yes. But you have to figure... Sawako's a goddamn saint. She has an unshakable faith in others. That's why everyone who knows her loves her.

Quote:

She claimed to have liked Kazehaya and yet in her passive aggression almost all but ruined his romantic chances in middle school

Did she? If you remember, the way she "ruined" his dating life was by sending cute girls to him one after the other. (Why couldn't my dating life have been ruined like that? I could have used it.) And, yes, just as planned, he rejected them all. But is it really her fault he never was interested? It's not like she lied to either him or them.

You also have to wonder how much of an obstacle she ever made of herself. She tried her best against Sawako, for obvious reasons, and in the end... her best didn't amount to all that much. Oh, it was very bad of her, I don't deny that. What I'm saying is, it barely slowed down Kazehaya. Sawako's lack of self-esteem was and is a much larger wall to overcome. So if he was dateless in middle school, it's because he let himself be that way.

Quote:

just so that she could get close to him,[ and even then she never did. She indirectly chased everyone away for a plan she never enacted.

But she did. It just was a really slow plan. When Sawako appeared, she was on the verge of moving on to the next phase, too. Or maybe she was just kidding herself - we'll never know.

Kismet-chan · 2011-01-06, 19:58

A nice recap episode. Gives a decent refresher without being annoying, repetitive, or long-winded. Having it be from Kurumi's perspective definitely helped to make it more interesting as well. Not to mention the smooth setup for the following episode. I like the OP a LOT more than the first season's OP (even though that song grew on me over time), and the ED is beautiful, vocally and music-wise. I love how they worked the title into the lyrics, too.

Can't wait for the next episode. My most favorite anime of the year is back in business! Hooray for the comeback of KnT!

Stefkov · 2011-01-06, 22:46

I thought the recap from Kurumi's perspective was nice and different, although I would have much preferred a recap of everything that had happened because it's been a while since I watched the first season or read the manga.

I can't wait for it to pick up next week. I need my dose of bubbly pure romance that doesn't include harems, tsunderes and/or fan-service every 2 scenes.

HayashiTakara · 2011-01-07, 00:38

Personally, the first episode was terrible for me... I hate recap episodes with a vengence. I skip them whenever possible.

Shiroth · 2011-01-07, 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefkov

I need my dose of bubbly pure romance that doesn't include harems, tsunderes and/or fan-service every 2 scenes.

So why not read shoujo manga? (if you already don't that is). You can find lots of pure romance titles out here to read, finished and currently still going.

Stefkov · 2011-01-07, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiroth

So why not read shoujo manga? (if you already don't that is). You can find lots of pure romance titles out here to read, finished and currently still going.

I'd love some recommendations. If you could PM me some that'd be great, I just don't know where to start. It's the same for my manga reading as a whole, I've only been reading manga that I've already seen the anime of.

Waven · 2011-01-07, 18:12

You can get fed up with shoujo archetypes and cliches as much as you probably did with shounen ones

KnT has some of those as well, they're just not that bothersome due to the rest being well constructed around them as well as some fresh additions to the genre.

Vexx · 2011-01-08, 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefkov

I thought the recap from Kurumi's perspective was nice and different, although I would have much preferred a recap of everything that had happened because it's been a while since I watched the first season or read the manga.

I can't wait for it to pick up next week. I need my dose of bubbly pure romance that doesn't include harems, tsunderes and/or fan-service every 2 scenes.

It is definitely a Good Idea to mix it up with multiple genre. For example, I tend to hunt up the works of female authors lately because, on average, they seem to do a better job of portraying how people actually think and behave in relationships. It doesn't matter whether they're writing seinen, shoujo, or shounen - I just seem to get more hits than losses with them.

That's probably because they have to work harder to get any attention from publishers at all.

Now on the downside, I spend a fair amount of time wanting to strangle our heroine because she's *SO* low on self-esteem, but that's part of the story.

MYVJunki · 2011-01-11, 19:21

Just watched episode two. The Valentines Day scene always kills me. That's what I love about this series though. They don't make it super happy go lucky but they make the characters seem so real and human. It really pulls at my heartstrings, and I think that's what makes this anime and manga great. It really relates to people at quite a personal level.

Shiroth · 2011-01-11, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYVJunki

Just watched episode two.

It's episode 1. The recap was episode 0.

Kismet-chan · 2011-01-11, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYVJunki

That's what I love about this series though. They don't make it super happy go lucky but they make the characters seem so real and human. It really pulls at my heartstrings, and I think that's what makes this anime and manga great. It really relates to people at quite a personal level.

I definitely agree with all of this. It's actually the very reason why I tend to be very critical about anime (to a degree; I've watched and enjoyed anime that deep down I knew were crap XD). I try to look for anime shows that fulfill all or most of those requirements, and then those are mostly the ones I watch.

I personally consider KnT the best anime of last year, because it accomplished all of that, and did it well.

MYVJunki · 2011-01-11, 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiroth

It's episode 1. The recap was episode 0.

My bad. I just meant I watched 2nd episode.

miroku2192 · 2011-01-11, 22:23

Oh Mai Goodness, this first episode made meh soooo sad at the end. I should've seen it coming...hnnnnnnnng

And ume really makes me want to rage @ her right now for what she did...but in a way, she did help in making sawako be more aware of her true feelings I guess (is how one should look at it)

Guardian Enzo · 2011-01-11, 23:21

So after two seasons we finally get some dirt on Mr. Perfect - and it's that he used to wet the bed as a six year-old?

What a letdown...

Leo_Otaku · 2011-01-12, 00:42

AHHHH I so wanted her to give them >.<

germanturkey · 2011-01-12, 00:43

pin always threatens to tell people stuff. there was some of it in the first half too. also, a new challenger appears! This means we finally get the wheels turning!

anyways, like with this series, we ALWAYS get those "almost" moments. it hurts so badly to watch it, because who hasn't experienced it once or twice in their lives?

vaden · 2011-01-12, 01:52

Oh, wow, what a bleak way to start off the new season... this episode felt a lot lonelier than I remember Kimi ni Todoke being, seeing how much distance it seemed to put between Sawako and Kazehaya. And all the snow on top of that, too.

I wasn't expecting Kazehaya to react the way he did to Pin's threats, though... so he wet the bed once. I'm sure everyone knows young children do that. Doesn't seem like a lot of leverage to me.

2011-01-06, 07:31	Link #82
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	A Certain Point of View It’s so easy to dislike Ume and at the same time so easy to be apologetic for her actions. In the end, for me, I don’t see her as atrociously evil character, but her actions and attitudes aren’t exactly that easy to forgive. At the end of the day she was selfish then, and she is selfish even now. She claimed to have liked Kazehaya and yet in her passive aggression almost all but ruined his romantic chances in middle school just so that she could get close to him, and even then she never did. She indirectly chased everyone away for a plan she never enacted. That in itself is ironic because the person she would lose to is a person who never acted to get Kazehaya as a boyfriend in the first place. Talk about karma. I am also completely loving the final shot of the ED: Spoiler for Big pic.: __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2011-01-06, 19:58	Link #85
Kismet-chan The Chaotic Dreamer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In a cruel yet beautiful world Age: 32	A nice recap episode. Gives a decent refresher without being annoying, repetitive, or long-winded. Having it be from Kurumi's perspective definitely helped to make it more interesting as well. Not to mention the smooth setup for the following episode. I like the OP a LOT more than the first season's OP (even though that song grew on me over time), and the ED is beautiful, vocally and music-wise. I love how they worked the title into the lyrics, too. Can't wait for the next episode. My most favorite anime of the year is back in business! Hooray for the comeback of KnT! __________________

2011-01-07, 00:38	Link #87
HayashiTakara Chicken or Beef? Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle Age: 41	Personally, the first episode was terrible for me... I hate recap episodes with a vengence. I skip them whenever possible. __________________ http://htakara82.deviantart.com/

2011-01-11, 22:23	Link #96
miroku2192 Let's Puppystyle! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Best Place In The WORLD Age: 32	Oh Mai Goodness, this first episode made meh soooo sad at the end. I should've seen it coming...hnnnnnnnng And ume really makes me want to rage @ her right now for what she did...but in a way, she did help in making sawako be more aware of her true feelings I guess (is how one should look at it) __________________

2011-01-12, 00:43	Link #99
germanturkey Udon-YAAAAAAAA Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 35	pin always threatens to tell people stuff. there was some of it in the first half too. also, a new challenger appears! This means we finally get the wheels turning! anyways, like with this series, we ALWAYS get those "almost" moments. it hurts so badly to watch it, because who hasn't experienced it once or twice in their lives? __________________ Aria is the best series EVER. Rewatch Origination with me. Blessed are those who listen to headphones, for they listen to the sound of heaven.

2011-01-06, 06:57	Link #81
Waven Itadaki-nyaaa !! Join Date: Apr 2008	The one thing that helps Kurumi becoming so likable is that KnT does not have purely antagonistic characters... at all, and many shoujo series have this agenda. However I don't think a "Kurumi-show" could work on its own. She is this poor, likable character because she is the "rejected side character" but then again she's also really pushy and doesn't flinch from using dirty tricks and deception. As a main girl this would be too much out of genre conventions, especially when looking at the target audience. Sawako's strong point obviously is that she is special within these conventions. On a side note, I really had to laugh at the flashback about misunderstandings being resolved by talking to each other

2011-01-06, 09:26	Link #83
Kopi Σ(ﾟﾛﾟﾉ)ﾉ Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Singapore	IMO, I like the recap. It tells the story from another perspectivewhich in this case Ume's who kind of disappeared somewhere in the second half(?) of season one.. lest we forget that she ever existed.. It also sets up nicely for the valentine's day episode. Love the OP and ED btw.

2011-01-06, 22:46	Link #86
Stefkov Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: England	I thought the recap from Kurumi's perspective was nice and different, although I would have much preferred a recap of everything that had happened because it's been a while since I watched the first season or read the manga. I can't wait for it to pick up next week. I need my dose of bubbly pure romance that doesn't include harems, tsunderes and/or fan-service every 2 scenes.

2011-01-07, 18:12	Link #90
Waven Itadaki-nyaaa !! Join Date: Apr 2008	You can get fed up with shoujo archetypes and cliches as much as you probably did with shounen ones KnT has some of those as well, they're just not that bothersome due to the rest being well constructed around them as well as some fresh additions to the genre.

2011-01-11, 19:21	Link #92
MYVJunki Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2010	Just watched episode two. The Valentines Day scene always kills me. That's what I love about this series though. They don't make it super happy go lucky but they make the characters seem so real and human. It really pulls at my heartstrings, and I think that's what makes this anime and manga great. It really relates to people at quite a personal level.

2011-01-12, 00:42	Link #98
Leo_Otaku Rewrite of the Life Join Date: May 2003 Location: Canada Age: 37	AHHHH I so wanted her to give them >.<

2011-01-12, 01:52	Link #100
vaden 0118 999 881 999 119 7253 Join Date: May 2009 Location: (n.) A particular place or position.	Oh, wow, what a bleak way to start off the new season... this episode felt a lot lonelier than I remember Kimi ni Todoke being, seeing how much distance it seemed to put between Sawako and Kazehaya. And all the snow on top of that, too. I wasn't expecting Kazehaya to react the way he did to Pin's threats, though... so he wet the bed once. I'm sure everyone knows young children do that. Doesn't seem like a lot of leverage to me.