D.C II ~Da Capo II~

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by KBTKaiser

Yeah, the only real bitterness in the Da Capo world for the most part is
Nemu Vs. Sakura (D.C.)
and
Otome Vs. Yume (D.C. II)
Koko Vs. Nanaka(D.C. II, Nanaka Path)

...I think?

I think that's right.

Spoiler for D.C. II:

And even then, Otome and Yume's "rivalry" happened over the course of all of one day, I believe, and then it was soon forgotten. Koko and Nanaka never really "have at it" directly either - Wataru confronts Yoshiyuki about it, but the two girls just stop talking to each other, pretty much. People hoping for catfights would be disappointed.

[AvatarST]

No catfight is inherently a good thing for me, anyway. I like people who can think logically and try to be nice. We're far from perfect, but seeing someone trying to be nice despite their struggle (or even if they fail at it) is something that gains a lot of respect from me.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Then again, I guess that's boredom for you.

- I don't think it's boredom at all, but a desire as viewers to literally see some physical violence being done. I'd chalk it up to an inherent, maybe subconscious desire people have to see other people suffer. Why do you think a lot of adult-oriented visual novels seem to have a lot more of those "make the girl you like suffer" scenarios lately? Bread and circuses, kind of like the gladiatorial matches in Ancient Rome. Violent and explosive drama is a spectacle people want to see.

No, honestly, the way that popular culture as a whole has been going lately, I'd be more inclined to say that the people who have watched the DC anime aren't at all fans of the game, much less fans of the characters or the genre. To take an analogy (outside of Da Capo), let's take Kaede from Shuffle--while I like her character myself, I think that a great majority of her fans (Especially the Boxcutter Mafia) actually like her for her hidden mean streak and her viciousness against Asa in that one episode of the TV series. And don't get me started on Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien (which I haven't watched, and might not want to watch, given the theme).

Okay I might be rambling now, but: Have you ever watched Soap Operas? I generally hate them, (When you live in a country wherein Anime is on at the same time as soap operas, you're on the losing side) but I've noticed that not only have they become more and more long-running and inane, they've also become a lot stupider: the 'drama' is heightened in such a way that it'd be considered retarded for most normal human beings to act that way over the top. But people expect that of Soap Opera, and many even consider it more realistic if people blow up and gut each other over a simple misunderstanding than trying to thresh it out and understand.

People don't want to see sensible, intelligent people trying to work things out. They want action. They want blood. They want someone to draw out an X-Acto knife and start opening up someone else's spleen.

Put simply? They want Survivor: The Anime Series. -_-

[relentlessflame]

Heh - you're preaching to the choir, man. It wasn't necessarily that I thought the desire for physical conflict was due to boredom, but rather this idea of watching shows in the genre, despite finding them "boring", for the sole reason that it may turn violent later on (even though most don't and were never designed to). That's what I don't understand; seems like a colossal waste of time to me.

Spoiler for Off-topic (Shuffle):

For what it's worth, episodes 19 & 20 of Shuffle (which many people see as the highlight) are my least favourite episodes, precisely because the physical conflict is so completely atypical to the genre. It's no surprise that those episodes were an anime-exclusive construct (those scenes weren't in the game at all). It was an attempt to appeal to peoples' baser instincts in order to increase ratings at the final hour -- and, of course, it worked. People think that that the final arc was the problem, but that's only because it returned to the game after taking an (unnecessary?) detour.

Anyway, it suits me just fine that almost all of D.C. II's conflicts are either "man vs. nature" or "man vs. self", and even the "man vs. man" conflicts are really just internal conflicts in disguise. All the resolutions are internal and draw on the characters' "inner strength". Perhaps it's the introvert in me, but I find that way more satisfying and interesting in a story. If it means that those seeking "Survivor: The Anime Series" watch something else instead, as far as I'm concerned, great...

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

No catfight is inherently a good thing for me, anyway. I like people who can think logically and try to be nice. We're far from perfect, but seeing someone trying to be nice despite their struggle (or even if they fail at it) is something that gains a lot of respect from me.

that reminds me awfully alot like Kotori's suffering, man i really felt for her Kotori forever!

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by holyman282

that reminds me awfully alot like Kotori's suffering, man i really felt for her Kotori forever!

My main complaint is that Kotori didn't get the attention she deserved in that show. I wanted to see her develop more and see her more on-screen. The show felt like it was about Nemu all over again, and considering I hated the leads last time...

Another example of what I said is Elis from Canvas 2. She wasn't very good at handling her feelings, but I had a lot of respect for how hard she tried ("shouta-kun, you're such a nice person...I wish I could be a bit more like that").

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

My main complaint is that Kotori didn't get the attention she deserved in that show. I wanted to see her develop more and see her more on-screen. The show felt like it was about Nemu all over again, and considering I hated the leads last time...

Another example of what I said is Elis from Canvas 2. She wasn't very good at handling her feelings, but I had a lot of respect for how hard she tried ("shouta-kun, you're such a nice person...I wish I could be a bit more like that").

I know what you mean avatar, the fact simply being when i saw the first ep of DCSS i thought good it will be more focused on Kotori, although i know

Spoiler for DCSS:

asakura will probably end up with nemu in DCSS again i felt that the writers are finally going to give more attention into developing the other girls especially Kotori. The first ep of DCSS i saw i felt it was all for developing Kotori and then not even finishing ep 1 they introduced Aishia without properly developing the other girls.....

The fact simply is if they did more work on developing Kotori and maybe let her spend a bit more time with Asakura so he can develop romantic feelings towards i reckon it would of been alot more worthwhile. Instead of doing that though they introduced a new character, focused on her for a few eps and then look Nemu comes back and therefore destroying any chance Kotori has of getting close to Asakura and yes i do agree with you that in the end it just reaffirms Asakura's love for Nemu all over again and felt it was quite pointless.

If Kotori was developed i would of been satisfied whoever Asakura ended up with, but the writer didn't bother developing the other characters and ended up introducing a new character really ticked me off so yeah, heres hoping for a clean start with DCII!

[relentlessflame]

Where have I heard all these D.C.S.S. arguments before... In any case, I'm not going to get into that here; we should probably take specific anime series discussion to the appropriate thread in the Fansubs forum. That way it can get broader participation from others who've watched the show (and know nothing about this game).

As for D.C.II, I'll try to post my summary/impressions of the C.D.C.D. D.C. II story soon. The short version is that this was the obligatory side-story/omake that was made to be written for D.C. II, though it's complete and total pandering and fanservice. As long as you don't try to take it seriously, it's pretty funny.

Also, the first D.C. II drama CD is coming out on February 10th -- appropriately enough, it's "Otome's Chocolate Box Memories"... just in time for Valentine's Day. Amazon link is in the first post of the thread with all the other merchandise, as usual.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot. I also got the Character Song Album CD, and I was surprised at how well all these seiyuu can sing, on the whole. I guess that's probably one of the criteria for getting the job, though, seeing as music plays such a huge role in the D.C. franchise. Even though it's probably not going to happen as long as Starchild is publishing, it'd be neat to keep the game VAs for the anime.

[AvatarST]

I can't really find a character I dislike in DCII, so I doubt I'd have the same problem with it when the anime comes out. Who knows if I'd feel enough motivation to watch it, though...you may've noticed I hardly show up on the fansubs forums anymore. That's because I'm only watching NHK, and I have to finish the last 2 episodes of that. I've been lacking motivation and time to watch anime lately. I was planning to watch Kanon, among other things, but I can't make myself do it.

Well, let's hope I get cured soon.

[wavehawk]

Speaking of C.D.C.D., I got a copy of Dengeki G's Magazine, and turning to the C.D. article, I just went..."WTF?!?" because I saw an image of Kotori that my brain cannot accept. Hell, I'm not even sure if that was Kotori at all, it just seemed...wrong.

Relentless, since you've already gone through it, can you confirm this for me?

Spoiler for C.D.C.D.:

Specifically...Kotori in Red Bodice and fishnets smiling seductively. If you want, I'll get a scan of it from my mag. It just elicited a "Yikes!" from me.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

Relentless, since you've already gone through it, can you confirm this for me?

Spoiler for C.D.C.D.:

Specifically...Kotori in Red Bodice and fishnets smiling seductively. If you want, I'll get a scan of it from my mag. It just elicited a "Yikes!" from me.

Well, it is in the game, but... Once I'm done with my summary of the D.C. II story, I'll try to write something up for the D.C. one as well (though I don't know what thread to put it in, technically).

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, it is in the game, but...

- Just when I thought I was cynical enough already...

Ah well. It's just that I could never picture Kotori...being THAT way.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

Ah well. It's just that I could never picture Kotori...being THAT way.

Would it help if I said that it was a "big but"? I'm still finishing the D.C. story myself, but I'll definitely post a full explanation once I'm finished it.

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

I can't really find a character I dislike in DCII, so I doubt I'd have the same problem with it when the anime comes out. Who knows if I'd feel enough motivation to watch it, though...you may've noticed I hardly show up on the fansubs forums anymore. That's because I'm only watching NHK, and I have to finish the last 2 episodes of that. I've been lacking motivation and time to watch anime lately. I was planning to watch Kanon, among other things, but I can't make myself do it.

Well, let's hope I get cured soon.

ahh but finding characters you like and dislike is what makes an anime great, it means that it has touched you so deeply that you feel certain connections with one character and feels great hostility towards another and makes you watch an anime to the end rooting for the person you like. If you really don't dislike any of the characters, then sincerly hope if an anime of DCII comes out the writer will make you hate some and like others or else the anime will be very boring for you

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by holyman282

ahh but finding characters you like and dislike is what makes an anime great, it means that it has touched you so deeply that you feel certain connections with one character and feels great hostility towards another and makes you watch an anime to the end rooting for the person you like. If you really don't dislike any of the characters, then sincerly hope if an anime of DCII comes out the writer will make you hate some and like others or else the anime will be very boring for you

For what it's worth, I couldn't possibly disagree more when it comes to shows in this genre. You're not supposed to hate any of the characters, as they're all presented as equal heroines and characters in the game. If something goes wrong, you feel empathy for all those affected. Not a single game path ends with any amount of ill-will towards any of the characters, and any time there's any sort of fight or disagreement, they take careful steps to resolve it and explain all the reasons why (again, so that no one's the bad guy). So, I'm hoping that his experience when watching the anime will be more like the one in the game, where even though one girl is chosen, none of the others are villified or deserve to be in any way hated because of it. He already said that Nemu was an exception, so I'm hoping it stays that way. (See also the discussion leading up to this, as this discussion is basically what lead to AvatarST's post in the first place.)

[Sailor Enlil]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

Speaking of C.D.C.D., I got a copy of Dengeki G's Magazine, and turning to the C.D. article, I just went..."WTF?!?" because I saw an image of Kotori that my brain cannot accept. Hell, I'm not even sure if that was Kotori at all, it just seemed...wrong.

Relentless, since you've already gone through it, can you confirm this for me?

Spoiler for C.D.C.D.:

Specifically...Kotori in Red Bodice and fishnets smiling seductively. If you want, I'll get a scan of it from my mag. It just elicited a "Yikes!" from me.

Looking for this? (actual screenshot from C.D.C.D.)

Spoiler for Seductive Kotori:

As a bonus, here's one of her best friends (i.e. one of the two girls with Kotori whom you meet with in Kotori's path), who got caught up in the "discussion" (also an actual screenshot from C.D.C.D.)

Spoiler for Sexy Tomo-chan:

I also have Mik-kun (the other best friend of Kotori) in a very seductive scene as well, but it's wayyy too NSFW. Unless you wouldn't mind a censored version?

[AvatarST]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

So, I'm hoping that his experience when watching the anime will be more like the one in the game, where even though one girl is chosen, none of the others are villified or deserve to be in any way hated because of it. He already said that Nemu was an exception, so I'm hoping it stays that way. (See also the discussion leading up to this, as this discussion is basically what lead to AvatarST's post in the first place.)

Yep, even in the game it's different. I didn't particularly like Nemu's character there, but I didn't dislike her at all either. I was neutral. Her path was more entertaining than, say, Misaki or Izumiko's, anyway.

And yes, that doesn't seem like Kotori at all. Maybe it's one of Jyunichi's typical fantasies? What's that big but you're talking about, relentless? Spoil me!

Originally Posted by Sailor Enlil

I also have Mik-kun (the other best friend of Kotori) in a very seductive scene as well, but it's wayyy too NSFW. Unless you wouldn't mind a censored version?

Mikkun acting sexy? Sounds lolitastic. Sure, post a censored version or whatever.

[Furudanuki]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

And yes, that doesn't seem like Kotori at all. Maybe it's one of Jyunichi's typical fantasies?

Agreed. That picture of Kotori doesn't rate quite as big a WTF??!! as the CG's from the Lamune game of Nanami dressed in the leather neko-dominitrix outfit - which I cannot post here because I do not feel like getting banned today - but it isn't too far out of contention.

[Sailor Enlil]

Originally Posted by AvatarST

Yep, even in the game it's different. I didn't particularly like Nemu's character there, but I didn't dislike her at all either. I was neutral. Her path was more entertaining than, say, Misaki or Izumiko's, anyway.

And yes, that doesn't seem like Kotori at all. Maybe it's one of Jyunichi's typical fantasies? What's that big but you're talking about, relentless? Spoil me!

Spoiler:

I actually played the game (that's how I got the screenshots) and judging from the dialogs (Jyunichi, Kotori, Tomo-chan, and Mik-kun were having dinner together and this came up in the conversation), those scenes were indeed just fantasies. I'm not sure whose though, Jyunichi's, or the girls'.

Originally Posted by AvatarST

Mikkun acting sexy? Sounds lolitastic. Sure, post a censored version or whatever.

Okay you asked for it:

Spoiler for loli Mik-Kun censored:

[MeganeShounen]

@Sailor Enlil
From the looks of those pictures, C.D.C.D. certainly is a fandisk that doesn't hold back on the fanservice... I guess I won't be surprised with the ero-scenes to be up-to-par with the games themselves.

/me gives Sailor Enlil (delayed) X-mas cookies for the pics

That reminds me, seems like all the stories have no connection with the other storylines in the game right? Well, maybe a little with D.C. and D.C. II...