[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[Renall]

A random take on Kanon that occurred to me:

Spoiler for Where's Kanon on the 4th?:

Kanon's activities on the 4th are extremely difficult to trace. At around 10:30 he meets Battler for the first time, carrying gardening equipment. It falls over and Battler helps him. When everyone leaves, Kanon mutters, "Even I..."

Kanon is not seen again until 6pm when he knocks on the children's door for dinner. There's a scene in there where he meets Kinzo but, well, Kinzo. Certainly Battler never sees him, nor does anyone else seem to. He notes Maria is missing and says he came right there. Maria was in the rose garden, which Battler observes Kanon would've passed through had he come directly from the mansion, but concedes that the rain might make it hard to tell.

Kanon is next seen at 6:30 with Shannon and Genji in Kinzo's study. Again, questionable.

In ep1, Kanon is already at the guesthouse when the cousins arrive around 10:20, noting he's been reassigned along with Shannon and Genji to the guesthouse. Shannon leaves to meet George. Kanon and Genji seem to retire for the night shift and are not seen again until the next morning, depending on episode.

This gives Kanon a good few hours before anyone arrives on the 4th, and 7 or so unaccounted-for hours on the 4th. In episode 1 he says he went to the garden shed "before the rain" which started to fall at 3pm. Other than that, we have no clear proof of his location. So what's he up to?

While a lot of people think of him as a culprit, look at it this way: His body often vanishes. His deaths are never clean, and never seem to properly follow a killer's MO. He is depicted in magic scenes as fighting back all the time. So is he a culprit, or is Kanon investigating the plots that go on and attempting to stop them, possibly influencing which killer winds up being successful in an episode by stopping or failing to stop other killers?

Kanon's body vanishes in ep2 and ep4. In ep2, he trusts in Jessica. In ep4, he trusts in Shannon. Was he wrong to do so? Why doesn't he confide in Battler? He barely knows him, but first impressions would indicate that Battler's a good guy. Is Kanon suspicious of the adults? Is he trying to stop the murders all by himself? What does "Even I..." mean in context? "Even I" need help? "Even I" have weaknesses?

I'm really interested in this view of Kanon. If he's not a culprit, but acting on his own to try to figure out who the culprits are, then teaming up with him might be quite useful for Battler. If nothing else, I wonder just what Kanon is doing all day on the 4th... especially since he has no one to report to.

[Knicknevin]

I've got a partial theory regarding Beato's identity. This is very long, and covers all the games. It is by no means perfect, but still, I've gotten about as far as I can thinking on my own. Any feedback is welcome.

Spoiler for All games.:

First of all. This theory assumes the information from Episode 3 concerning Beatrice is correct. Kinzo met her years before, and after borrowing the gold, fell in love with her. Kinzo, undeterred when she rejected him, simply took her by force, building a hidden mansion on the island he bought and imprisoning her there. Unable to escape, she eventually commited suicide.

However, she had a child, or Kinzo found an infant that bore a high enough resemblance, and this child was kept on in the hidden mansion for her entire life, looked after by Genji, Kumasawa, and Nanjo checking up on occasion. Years later, Rosa stumbles across the hidden mansion, and meets Beatrice #2 who has been desiring to leave and see the outside world. She leads that Beatrice out, only for her to fall from a cliff and die on the rocks below.

Again, another child was acquired. The timing here is important. Battler and Jessica were both born in 1968, since they are both 18 in 1985. In '68 Krauss and Natsuhi had been trying to conceive unsuccessfully for more than a decade. Since Kuwadorian wasnt used after Beatrice #2 died accidentally, Kinzo must have wanted to keep the newly born Beatrice someplace she could be kept under observation and not so isolated. So, he gave the child to Krauss and Natsuhi, sternly ordering them to look after her as their own. He may have even told them not to worry about proper succession, as she carried his blood. This might be why Krauss and Natsuhi are somewhat distant from their daughter.

Battler is born at roughly the same time, Rudolph's son, though not to Asumu. It has been theorized that Jessica is actually Rudolph and Asumu's daughter, and was given over to Krauss for some reason. Then Battler was taken from Kyrie, and she may have been led to believe her child died. The traded child was going to also be named Battler, that name got passed on to Kyrie's firstborn (this is also why Battler and Ange look so alike).

As time passes, Kinzo's mind slips further into madness. Jessica is raised fairly normally, though as she gets older Kinzo begins paying more and more attention to her, convinced she is yet another Beatrice. When Jessica and Battler are about 12, Battler says something to Jessica that leaves a deep impression on her, even if he thought little of it. He might have bragged that he'd come charging to the rescue if she were ever in trouble, or he'd help her escape from her oppressive family, something along those lines.

Shortly after, Asumu dies. Rudolph remarries quickly, to Kyrie, who is pregnant with Ange. Battler can't accept this turn of events, and leaves the family to live with Asumu's parents.

Kinzo's madness worsens. Jessica feels like Battler abandoned her. Kinzo starts visiting Jessica more often, telling her about the previous Beatrices, and revealing many of his secrets to her. At some point, Kinzo makes a move on Jessica. Given Kinzo's personality, he's not likely to ask. Also recall what Beatrice said about Kinzo's interests... This may have happened more than once. At some point, Jessica's mind, unable to accept what was happening to her and despairing over Battler, who never came, broke down and a new persona was formed, taking the name of Beatrice. At some point in this period, Jessica/Beatrice and Maria form the Mariage Sorcière. 'Beatrice' and Maria quickly become friends, and discuss magic frequently. The two of them plan and execute many innocent pranks, like moving around peoples shoes, opening windows that were shut, hiding keys and the like.

Sometime in 1983, Kinzo dies. Jessica may have killed him, perhaps trying to resist him. Krauss might have done it as well if he found out what was going on with all of Jessica's visits to his room (remember, like Rudolph told Kyrie once, even though he brags and blusters, Krauss can become the most reliable of the siblings when the chips are down. If he found out Kinzo was raping his daughter, I don't think Kinzo would be around much longer.). Either way, it was neccessary to conceal Kinzo's death, in order to protect his family and also prevent the distribution of the inheritance. In all likelyhood, all of the negative memories and emotions Jessica had experienced got shoved onto Beatrice and locked away. Maria learns about her mother's deceptions, and presumably tells Beatrice. The Mariage Sorcière takes a darker turn, and Maria's diary has many new 'spells' added to it of a more hurtful nature.

Recall the red Beatrice said regarding Battler's 'sin'. "From your sin, a person died." "Because of your sin, many people on this island die." Taking those as seperate and complete thoughts, it could be construed that Kinzo died because of Jessica's despair, since Battler never came.

Beatrice spends most of the time dormant when Maria isn't around, though she does come forward to speak to Shannon, sadistically urging her forward deeper into a relationship with George, which she thinks is bound to fail. I recall she even tells Kanon as much when he catches her before she regresses after one of her meetings with Shannon. Which makes the relationship Jessica wants to make with him rather... awkward, since he's afraid this is another cruel joke of Beato's. George and Shannon's relationship seems to be poised to succeed despite all odds, much to Jessica and Beato's envy.

Word comes to Rokkenjima: Battler is coming back into the family. Beatrice awakens, and begins forming a plan to take revenge on Battler for forgetting his promise to her.

Jessica is in the perfect position to set the ball rolling. From her father, she know that all the siblings are in a precarious position financially. The tensions regarding the succession of the headship are getting high, especially with the rumor being spread among the siblings that whomever solves Kinzo's riddle will become the next head. Having Maria deliver a letter confirming this is enough to get people all hot and bothered.

Now throw in some wild cards. Through Kinzo, Jessica knows where the gold is. She knows the servants, probably better than her parents. She knows where Kinzo keeps Beatrice's old clothes. She knows about the emergency funds Kinzo set up, and where he kept all the keys. She can get out from her parents supervision for days at a time under the pretense of bad weather. She knows the ins and outs of both mansions. And don't forget, she knows Maria will believe just about anything if you say you are a witch.

From here, events depend upon the exact conditions of the game. She might carry out some of the killings herself, or it might not even be neccessary. She could be the person putting the magic circles and whatnot around the house, since she and Nanjo (who is Kinzo's old friend and reads alot of his books) are the likliest to know how to make proper symbols (and she knows Maria can read them).

Applying this to the game board, let us set a simple premise to the first twilight- the outcome of the first twilight is partially based upon the results of the confrontation with Krauss. We know from Episode 3 that the debate can last all night, even if some people, of a somewhat random nature, drop out early. Six people have to die. Generally, when the killer strikes, the first victims are taken from those still arguing about the inheritance. If that doesn't cover enough, any stragglers in the mansion are picked off until there are 6 victims.

In Episode 1, we have it confirmed in red that 'the identities of all the corpses are guaranteed' and while several statements were made saying how Kanon -didn't- die, nothing was said confirming that he actually did die. Although he was stabbed rather terribly, it could have been a faked wound, or just not as serious as it looked. If Nanjo was coerced into playing along with the act that Kanon was 'dead', he'd make an excellent accomplice for Jessica. He doesn't have a very solid alibi for the first twilight either. Jessica could have been placing the letters, drawing the symbols, and had Maria deliver the first letter, as well as put the one on the cart in Kinzo's room. The only questionable case is the one of Eva and Hideyoshi, but it has never been said in red that that was actually a closed room. Also recall that Kanon was the one who opened the room with a bolt cutter. When Genji and Kanon came to the door, Hideyoshi was in the shower and Eva was on the bed. If Eva had been drugged, no amount of noise would likely have woken her. Hideyoshi probably couldn't hear inside the shower. They may not have been killed until after Kanon broke the chain. After his 'death' he could easily have entered the parlor and killed those there, aside from Maria.

In the case of Episode 2, after she or her accomplice killed all the parents but Rosa, Kanon may have confronted/double crossed her while she was alone with him. He stabbed her, she retaliated, and wound up killing him. She moved the body out of her room and hid it someplace, then locked herself back into her room, and later died. I should also point out that it has been stated in red that 'From the time Maria recieved the key, until the next day when Rosa opened that letter, it passed through noone elses hands.' So the number of possible solutions to the first twilight drops essentially to one- Maria opened the chapel herself, and relocked it after. If we assume that Jessica gave her the key in the first place, she must have woken Maria and led her to the chapel so that Jessica or her accomplice could kill the adults. Either Jessica or her accomplice (if you buy that someone else 'inherited' Kinzo's name) must have taken the head's ring from Kinzo, and used that to reseal the letter. Honestly though, I don't quite know how the killings continue after the second twilight in this case. The next victims bodies dissapear but their deaths are not confirmed in red. 'Mystery Kanon' appears, or not. Shannon, George and Gohda die in a room only Rosa could have opened. Kumasawa and Nanjo turn up, in the courtyard. Battler meets 'Beatrice' and 'Kinzo' in Kinzo's study, led there by Genji, but he was pretty drunk at the time. It may not have happened at all... The likliest possibilities are either that paranoia took over due to Rosa's 'Wolves and Sheep' mentality and they were killing each other (but who was staking?) or... Jessica's death was never concretly stated in the red. She was described as a corpse, but was that a literal translation of the word? If she didn't die after all, she could have moved about freely, although she wouldn't have a master key. She could have put on Kanon's bloody clothes and a wig, and used them to fool the servants long enough to attack them. She must have ambushed George, Shannon and Gohda outside of her mother's room, and shot them with that 'stake shooting device', after which the three locked themselves into Natsuhi's room and expired. She probably got Maria's attention somehow, or left a letter at a predetermined spot for it to be left in the parlor later. Ouch, that was probably the hardest Episode to explain...

Episode 3 is kind of an exception. The 'Shion' arc if you will. Eva, fearing the servants might solve the riddle and find the gold first, may have jumped the gun and killed them to prevent this. She may have conspired with Jessica beforehand, or maybe she found Kinzo's corpse and a stack of his envelopes when she she took Genji's keys and checked the study. Jessica probably became aware that things had gone awry when she tried to find Kanon and just found locked rooms. She may have even witnessed Eva doing her rounds, and then followed up with drawing the symbols on the various doors as planned. Eva found the head's ring when she killed Kanon. It was said in red for this Episode that Jessica didn't commit any murders. So Eva probably commited almost all of them, except Nanjo, and maybe George. If a mortally wounded Hideyoshi was prowling the mansion until he died after killing Nanjo, he may have also killed George, though why is anyones guess. George may have also commited suicide. If Jessica was aware George had left and locked the window after him, she may have followed him, perhaps even goaded him along, and after he died wrote that code on the door. The plan was pretty much out the door at this point anyway, so she may have been trying to pass some other message than the usual magic circles.

Not much red was used regarding the cases in Ep4, and none regarding Jessica really. Krauss, after having his hand forced by Kyrie, may came up with the plan to blitz the family conference and imprison the survivors. But it was probably Jessica and Kanon. Just because 'Kinzo' appeared before the family, and the statement in red that 'noone could mistake anyone else for Kinzo', there is no assurance he was alive. The culprit (remember, Genji entered the room while Kanon swung the other door out from outside) could have carted Kinzo's old bones into the room, yanked out a gun while everyone was stunned by this spectacle, and just started plugging away. As for the pitfalls, the food may have been drugged, or the place the survivors were imprisoned may not have been Kuwadorian. Unless we believe witches and goats were holding them prisoner, one of the 7 survivors must have been in fact the imprisoner. Kanon coerced Gohda and Kumasawa to run to the guesthouse and spin a fantastic tale about magic.

The first call is made, and Kumasawa and Gohda are locked into the garden storage. Kanon himself goes to watch, and then approaches the window. He aims the gun inside, and tells Gohda and Kumasawa that if they don't set up ropes and 'hang' themselves he'll kill the hostages, and even the cousins in the guesthouse. They do so, then he shoots them, leaving them hanging in sight of the window. He then calls Jessica and George out to 'test' them. Jessica heads out, shoots George as he reaches the arbor, and then calls Battler and gives an Oscar worthy performance. Then she changes clothes and raids Kinzo's wine selection getting rather drunk. Meanwhile, the prisoners start attempting to escape. Kanon is killed trying to stop them. Is 'Kanon's red laser' perhaps a laser sighting for a gun? They could have disarmed him and used the gun to shoot the locks off. Kanon pursues, and is shot coming out of the well. (Kanon is said to be dead using the red. And noone else can assume his name, so... even though Battler can't find his body, I believe him to be dead) Jessica sees this, and starts shooting the escapees. Krauss makes it as far as the door, Kyrie makes it to a guest room.

I'll be perfectly honest, I have no idea what the significance of the golden threads is. Kyrie may have been coerced to say that while Jessica kept a gun on her, and even took a few shots (silenced pistol? Battler didn't hear any gunshots). Then Jessica calls out to Maria and Battler. She meets Maria at the chapel, has her drink poison, and carries her her mother's side. Then she heads up to her room, and sees Battler poking at that box at the front door. Wearing Beatrice's clothes she greets Battler from the balcony. Despite Battler's surity that it was 'Beatrice', his outlook was warped after the converation with Kyrie. Plus, I dont know if it was a translation error or not: she was described as coming out of the second floor balcony. But Kinzo's room is on the THIRD floor, right? Jessica's is on the second flood if I recall correctly though... Either way, Battler was looking up at her from 10-20 feet or so, in the dark, while it was raining hard. I'm not going to begrudge him for fooling himself into believing it. After she tries to get Battler to remember what was said 6 years, she despairs, and heads into her room, changes back into her own clothes, and kills herself. Though I have no idea why Battler didn't find the weapon. How Battler dies at the end is iffy, though if you discard the idea of Maria being poisoned at the chapel, and instead assume both were poisoned back in the guesthouse, Maria would have died much sooner. Jessica just found her wherever she fell and put her by her mother.

So anyway, that is my theory. There are holes in it, especially with how vague things were in Episode 4, and how little time there was to do everything. Kanon's motivations for example (I'm not buying the Kanon=Battler theory, he's too young). But it covers alot pretty well I think. I'm not entirely happy I was able to put a share of the blame for all this on Jessica's shoulders, I like her ; ; but I can't come up with any other coherent theory that covers all the games. Feel free to poke holes, this is very much a work in progress...

[Renall]

A nice theory, though I have a lot of doubts with it. Regardless though, I have to take issue with something you (and Battler) have theorized:

Why are we blaming Eva for ep3? Because we've been told to? Come on, let's not be dupes here: at most, Eva killed Rosa, Maria, Krauss and Natsuhi, and most likely did shoot Battler! And Rosa could've been an accident or even self-defense. Maria could've been killed out of desperation. Krauss and Natsuhi could've gotten suspicious, or Eva could've become paranoid. And Eva was clearly not well when Battler confronted her and got shot.

But all those other deaths? Not Eva. First Twilight doesn't match "her" MO anyway, and she has no reason to even start killing until she finds the gold. That's six deaths she almost certainly didn't do. She wouldn't kill Hideyoshi and George under any circumstances. That's two more. Kyrie and Rudolf probably got into a gunfight with Hideyoshi over his covering for her. Two more. Nanjo can't have been killed by her. And why would she kill Jessica? She didn't even know where she was. The vast majority of the deaths in ep3 weren't Eva, and we don't know if her actions were justifiable (she was having nightmares and may have believed herself to be actually responsible, meaning she might take credit for things she didn't do).

Would it surprise anyone terribly if Eva were actually completely innocent? I can't write off the possibility. It's just too obvious the way she's dangled in front of us as a culprit.

[Jan-Poo]

One thing about times.

It is been stated that Kinzo hasn't met his grandchildren since 2 years, and in another instance Eva laments that "last year" Kinzo didn't show up (she doesn't say he's been missing since more than that). We don't have definitive proof that this is the truth but I think it's improbable this is false. In other words Kinzo attended the family meeting in 1984, the same year the portrait and the epitaph were shown. It is also stated that those two were shown in April, so Kinzo was still alive at that time.
in the year 1985 Kinzo didn't show up and in that very occasion Nanjo told everyone that Kinzo only had 3 months left to live.

Personally I think Kinzo was still alive in 1985. Because it doesn't make sense for Nanjo to say Kinzo was going to die soon if the plan was to cover his death. He'd rather say that Kinzo was in good health.

About Kinzo showing up as corpse. I wonder in what kind of state it was. It certainly didn't pass enough time for him to be a clean skeleton. However it is also almost certain he didn't die just by a few days else there wouldn't be any need to burn the corpse. So I wonder how did they keep his corpse around and preventing the stench from spreading in the house. Did they mummified him? Did they put him in the refrigeratort?

About Jessica and the real Beatrice there is a one year gap. Beatrice died in 1967, Jessica has born in 1968. However it is impossible to state for certain that Jessica's birthday wasn't changed for some reasons.

Other useful dates (they are stated in the game but not in red):

Kinzo met Beatrice after the war (1945+)
Captain kawabata started shipping goods to the kuwadorian around the year 1948
The Ronkkejima Mansion's construction ended in the year 1952
The Ushiromiya's family moved from Odawara to Rokkenjima in the year 1956
A young Beatrice died in 1967, around the same year Kawabata was told it wasn't any longer necessary for him to go to the kuwadorian.

[Renall]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

About Kinzo showing up as corpse. I wonder in what kind of state it was. It certainly didn't pass enough time for him to be a clean skeleton. However it is also almost certain he didn't die just by a few days else there wouldn't be any need to burn the corpse. So I wonder how did they keep his corpse around and preventing the stench from spreading in the house. Did they mummified him? Did they put him in the refrigeratort?

Remember that smell in his study that the game puts down to absinthe or whatever? Suppose it's embalming fluid?

[Jan-Poo]

that would explain a few things and yet it's crazy...

Ah I forgot to mention a thing in my previous post.
Genji in Ep1 states that Beatrice died before the construction of the Rokkenjima's house, so it must have happened in 1952 or before. However young Beatrice in ep2 says she hasn't met Kinzo in 30 years, so, supposing 30 is an approximation it must be exactly the year 1952.
Yeah this is quite a mindfuck considering young Beatrice isn't the same person as that Beatrice and there was another Beatrice before her, but I guess she is playing the part of the first Beatrice since the Beatrice that died in 1967 wasn't even mentioned at that time...

Anyway It looks like Kawabata didn't notice the death of the first Beatrice (if that actually happened), or maybe the first Beatrice has never been in Rokkenjima, and since the beginning he was shipping goods to the Beatrice that died in 1967. However in the year 1948 that Beatrice should have been just a newborn child....
Nah I guess it's more probable to think the first Beatrice was there and the second Beatrice was her daughter. Maybe the first Beatrice died soon after giving birth to the second.

[Marion]

Beatrice of 1967 doesn't have to equal Beatrice of 1952. There was a theory before that 1967 Beatrice is actually the daughter of the original Beatrice, since EP 3 Beato mentioned that she killed herself and then was then trapped within a new wall of flesh made to look like herself (Beatrice 1967).

But if the theory that Jessica is actually Beatrice's daughter is true, then does that mean Kinzo is her dad O_o And if that's so then...Jessica is his 5th child. Aahhhh my brain ;O;!!! It hurrrttss

[Jan-Poo]

It would also mean that Kinzo became dad for the fifth time when he was around 60-70 years old.
That's probably what his alchemic studies were for. He predated Viagra's invention by 30 years

[momobunny]

I'm still a little confused about what Beato said to Battler at the end...

Spoiler for red text:

"Ushiromiya Battler, at this time, I will kill you. And right now, there is no one on the island other than you. The only one alive on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere in any way. And of course, I am not you. However, I am here now and will kill you."

So I was thinking...

Spoiler for possibilities?:

Maybe whoever the real Beatrice is, left a trap that killed Battler or something? I dunno, I suck at forming theories, I usually just read everyone else's.
(which is why I posted this... does anybody else have any theory that might explain things?)

[k//eternal]

Originally Posted by Marion

But if the theory that Jessica is actually Beatrice's daughter is true, then does that mean Kinzo is her dad O_o And if that's so then...Jessica is his 5th child. Aahhhh my brain ;O;!!! It hurrrttss

Hilariously, this wouldn't change her ranking in the seating order.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Maho Momo

I'm still a little confused about what Beato said to Battler at the end...

Spoiler for red text:

"Ushiromiya Battler, at this time, I will kill you. And right now, there is no one on the island other than you. The only one alive on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere in any way. And of course, I am not you. However, I am here now and will kill you."

So I was thinking...

Spoiler for possibilities?:

Maybe whoever the real Beatrice is, left a trap that killed Battler or something? I dunno, I suck at forming theories, I usually just read everyone else's.
(which is why I posted this... does anybody else have any theory that might explain things?)

Spoiler for Reply, EP 4 Ending:

That red text relates to Beatrice's 'final riddle' to Battler, asking him to tell her who she is. Who is the person, Beatrice, that is about to kill him. She's basically telling him to figure out why he always goes missing and apparently dies, despite coming to the 10th twilight every time when the culprit at that point should be dead.

[Christen]

Originally Posted by Marion

Spoiler for possibilities?:

Maybe whoever the real Beatrice is, left a trap that killed Battler or something? I dunno, I suck at forming theories, I usually just read everyone else's.
(which is why I posted this... does anybody else have any theory that might explain things?)

Lambdadelta would like to have a word with you

It's possible, although I'm really wondering about the existence of traps now ever since that ura-tea party.

[k//eternal]

I'm trying to figure out how much of EP3's red text is universal, because if it applies across the board, then the statement that only humans are involved on the game board seems to kill most possibilities.

Although maybe she meant "as opposed to other animals", in which case the landslide theory is still a possibility.

[Jan-Poo]

Beatrice=Volcano imho is the best matching theory.

-Volcanic islands are pretty common
-A Volcano could have been "lived" for a thousand of year and be dormant
-The golden land scenario we see in ep2 and ep3 are metaphoric representation of a land scourged by an eruption. When at night a land is filled with lava it could appear as a golden land. The persons that enter the golden land are not "eaten" but consumed by lava.
-An imminent eruption could be the cause for the lack of seagulls (animals are sensitive to imminent disasters)
-The torii could have felt down because of a little earthquake that announced the real disaster

Eva-Beatrice statement is probably not to be taken literally. Imho is the most stupid thing she could say in red. How many times Beatrice stated that she's not human? How many times she stated that Shannon and Kanon are not human? And what about Ronove being a demon? What about the goat men? That's a pretty unconvenient red truth for a witch.

[Bern-chan]

One thing I'm wondering as I play EP4... Does Kinzo know that Ange exists? No one seems to talk about her at all, even when all the other grandchildren are mentioned. Like when Kinzo asks if the grandchildren are worth 10b. I can't help but feel this is somehow significant.

Also your Beato=Volcano theory is very interesting and clever. You could be right.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Beatrice=Volcano imho is the best matching theory.

-Volcanic islands are pretty common
-A Volcano could have been "lived" for a thousand of year and be dormant
-The golden land scenario we see in ep2 and ep3 are metaphoric representation of a land scourged by an eruption. When at night a land is filled with lava it could appear as a golden land. The persons that enter the golden land are not "eaten" but consumed by lava.
-An imminent eruption could be the cause for the lack of seagulls (animals are sensitive to imminent disasters)
-The torii could have felt down because of a little earthquake that announced the real disaster

Eva-Beatrice statement is probably not to be taken literally. Imho is the most stupid thing she could say in red. How many times Beatrice stated that she's not human? How many times she stated that Shannon and Kanon are not human? And what about Ronove being a demon? What about the goat men? That's a pretty unconvenient red truth for a witch.

lol Beatrice = Volcano theory |D It's really an amusing thought when you think about it.

Kinzo: I WANT TO SEE BEATRICE SMILING AT ME AGAIN!
Genji:...You mean the volcano?
Kinzo: DO YOU QUESTION MEEE!?
Genji: No Master -pours another drink for Kinzo-

|DDDD

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Bern-chan

One thing I'm wondering as I play EP4... Does Kinzo know that Ange exists? No one seems to talk about her at all, even when all the other grandchildren are mentioned. Like when Kinzo asks if the grandchildren are worth 10b. I can't help but feel this is somehow significant.

Also your Beato=Volcano theory is very interesting and clever. You could be right.

I'm sure he knows Ange exists, but if anything he's referring to the children on the island and not off. Ange is not present for the ceremony nor is she on Rokkenjima, so he probably cares less about her at that time.

[Christen]

I have to question the volcano theory though. The police would have known if there was a major disaster after arriving at the scene, unless Ryukishi intentionally cut out those parts.

Ange's investigations didn't inform us of a volcanic disaster, and assuming we were put into her perspective, such information couldn't have been irrelevant if it existed.

Unless a volcanic eruption is not constant, it might fit (Ange investigated the events of EP3, and Battler died alone in the island in EP4).

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Bern-chan

One thing I'm wondering as I play EP4... Does Kinzo know that Ange exists? No one seems to talk about her at all, even when all the other grandchildren are mentioned. Like when Kinzo asks if the grandchildren are worth 10b. I can't help but feel this is somehow significant.

I guess you are thinking about the various scenes and talks that apparently show zero consideration for the poor Ange


As far as I remember only Kyrie (at least her own mother does!) and Rosa seem to remember her existence, during the family conference. There's also the scene in ep1 (that I think was repeated in ep2) in the airport when Eva and Kyrie talk about Ange being sick.

I have to question the volcano theory though. The police would have known if there was a major disaster after arriving at the scene, unless Ryukishi intentionally cut out those parts.

Ange's investigations didn't inform us of a volcanic disaster, and assuming we were put into her perspective, such information couldn't have been irrelevant if it existed.

This is actually an interesting point. We haven't been told anything about what were the Police conclusions on the case. And this is very strange considering that normally Eva wouldn't escape a death sentence. She was the only person left on the island and noone else could go there or leave.
Actually the whole Rokkenjima case is often referred to as an incident.
Another notable thing is that Ange doesn't go the the Mansion. Why? Even if 12 years have passed the Mansion should be still there.

My guess is that that side of the island was completely covered by lava. The police couldn't find anything. The Mansion, The chapel, the guesthouse... they do not exist anymore. Eva was the only sruvivor because she reached the land of gold i.e. the kuwadorian, who happens to be on the other side of the island, and therefore was unaffected by the catastrophe. Really the only way to survive is solving the riddle.

[Squirrellord]

Hmm... I don't like the Volcano theory very much. I'm not saying it can't be true (Devil's Proof), but... well, it seems like just a slap in the face. I mean, are we to believe that it just so happens that when everything hits the fan, to top it all off, God decides to piss in the Ushiromiya Family's eye as well, and has a volcano erupt after they're all murdered?
I said it before in a half joke theory, but I still firmly hold onto the idea that the mansion pulls a Jack Torrence and the boiler goes boom.

Quotes:
Kumasawa: "......I wonder if there's something wrong with the boiler room again..."
Narration: The mansion's boiler was old, and in poor condition. `Both of them had witnessed problems with the boiler on several occasions....

If the boiler exploded, it would have obliterated the mansion, but left Kuwadorian untouched. It would have destroyed all evidence of foul play, magic circles, and mutilation. This would explain why, in the credit roll of episode 1, the only body part found *that could be identified* was Maria's lower jaw.

Oh, and re-reading that credit roll, there's one other problem with the volcano theory... the seagulls return the next day, right after the storm is over. If a volcano assaulted the island, they'd probably steer clear of it