2010-03-10, 03:09 | Link #3101 | |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 51
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My feeling has always been that all of the MikuruTech is nanotech implanted in her and she accesses it much the same way would access programs on a computer. However since humans are naturally visual and physical creatures, it's not a matter of Mikuru just thinking and something happens. I'm thinking it's something like virtual icons superimposed upon her vision. When she wants to use a certain item, she "grabs" it and manipulates it, and it gives tactile feedback to aid in its use. That's why she was feeling for the TPDD in BLR when theoretically there would be nothing physical for her to grab. It also explains why she put her hand to her ear in Boredom when informed of the massive closed space outbreak (corresponding to Itsuki's phone ringing and Yuki staring off into space like a cat). Not really anything in the novels that suggests this, just a logical extension on current tech ramped up by a few hundred years and a feeling I got from Mikuru(big)'s interactions with Yuki. But nothing in canon contradicts it. Pending identification of the Tsuruya Artifact.
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2010-03-11, 12:58 | Link #3103 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North Carolina
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Also, when Kyon said that he was afraid that Fujiwara was going to stop him from getting the memory device, Mikuru Big said: "He wouldn't dare, that piece of data means everything to the existence of his future as well. That was why he came to this time period." That makes it sound a lot like his future is not the same as her future. |
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2010-03-11, 14:38 | Link #3104 | |
ねぇ、知ってる?
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: florida
Age: 39
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Though I've always felt that Fujiwara comes from a period somewhat after Asahina. Maybe somewhat before her. But not from the exact same point in the future. |
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2010-03-11, 15:42 | Link #3105 |
High Saint of Asakuraism
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Great White North
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I've always thought that Fujiwara has a grudge against Mikuru possibly for something that her bigger variant did to him at some point. That's pretty much unfounded and just a guess at this point though.
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2010-03-12, 01:43 | Link #3107 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
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It could be that, or it could be that there is something about Mikuru that "rubs him the wrong way"--e.g. he has seen the side of Adult Mikuru that is not all sweetness and friendly the way that she has acted when Kyon has seen her, and thus considers her to be a wolf in sheep's clothing.
On Grandfather paradoxes: from the actions of Mikuru's faction (and implied by Kyon's own actions when time-traveling), we are shown that the past can be altered (if Mikuru's faction believed that attempts to alter the past are inherently fated to fail, then they would not be so AFRAID of changes--unless of course you claim that their fear is fated too, in which case you are essentially throwing the entire concept of free will out the window). However, it is pretty certain that a person eliminating his own past due to timeline changes is not going to create an indeterminate state (i.e. a state where he has to exist to prevent his past and yet also NOT exist because of having prevented it). Instead, it appears that either the "orphaned" person will disappear from existence, or will continue to exist without needing a past. Last edited by ijuinkun; 2010-03-12 at 02:23. |
2010-03-13, 01:16 | Link #3108 | ||
less qq; more pewpew
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
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Again, allow me to reintroduce the Novikov self-consistency principle. This is highly significant to Haruhi-verse time travel since there have been no examples of time travel to and through alternate realities/dimensions thus far. The self consistency principle states that:
If an event exists that would give rise to a paradox, or to any "change" to the past whatsoever, then the probability of that event is zero.The Novikov Principle does not allow a time traveler to change the past in any way, but it does allow them to affect past events in a way that produces no inconsistencies. Basically, time travel will never change history, since the act of traveling to the past was already part of history in the first place. For example: Quote:
Quote:
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2010-03-13, 05:44 | Link #3109 | |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 51
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Having a character whose very existence subconsciously causes the laws of physics to behave unexpectedly makes it impossible to lower the probability of any event to zero.So far Haruhi has potentially remade the whole universe, caused a break in the timeline that has proven insurmountable by time travel, awoken an eons-old data entity via a .GIF, discovered time travel (unknowingly), split off two weeks of time and repeated them over 15,000 times, granted sentience and speech to a male calico, changed the species of a few hundred pigeons, altered the precession of the earth's rotation, learned/made up an alien language, and saved or created over 2 million jobs, all subconsciously. Fiddling with time travel possibilities is out of her purview? ^_^
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2010-03-13, 08:34 | Link #3110 | |
less qq; more pewpew
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Philippines
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And yeah, there was a time travel theory stating that you won't be able to travel back past he time when the working "time machine" [concept] was created. Perhaps this explains why it's impossible to go past Day Zero, since this is when the possibility of time travel (to the past) was lifted from zero.
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2010-03-13, 20:42 | Link #3111 | ||
Hare Hare Sera Fuku!
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Sunny Singapore
Age: 32
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1) Haruhi wasn't the originator of time-travel. That's why the time-travelers could previously travel further back than 3 years ago, or before 'Day Zero', as you call it. OR, 2) Haruhi screwed your theory up and somehow allowed the time-travelers to leap past 'Day Zero'. |
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2010-03-13, 23:44 | Link #3112 | |
Sav'aaq!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Hyrule
Age: 51
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Regarding Fujiwara's origins, I've just never liked the idea of "rival" time traveler groups coming from the same world/timeline. Logistically, if they're at odds enough to be considered rivals, which is what he certainly considers Mikuru, then their joint history should be so full of holes as to make their very existence questionable. With different timeline,s research has to be done on the other group's timeline so as to figure out where they are succeptible, which allows for at least a temporary Mexican Standoff situation before one side or the other starts trying things.
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2010-03-14, 00:04 | Link #3113 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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This is explained in the novels: Fujiwara's group wants to erase the very existence of time travelers, which makes them logically at odds with the people who want to keep history the same as it always was.
Nothing in that supports them being from two different timelines. |
2010-03-14, 09:40 | Link #3114 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North Carolina
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"A memory from a corner of my brain was suddenly awoken. It was a few days before the school festival, something that Nagato said to me at a time when I was mightily busy while shooting the climax of the movie, In order to stabilize the future, it is necessary to input the correct value. Asahina Mikuru's mission is to adjust that variable to an acceptable value. Now was not the time to be feeling giddy about how good my memory was. The ambiguous phrase "in order to stabilize the future"... "There could only be one future, whether it was stable or not, right?" I had long since abandoned that idea. Could the future be unstable? In other words, could there exist other futures apart from Asahina-san's future? It would make sense if that's the case, but only a little. If the future really diverged into many different branches, then there once existed two futures where the boy survives in one and is now dead in the other, it's just that I've killed off the possibility of the latter from ever happening. That means thanks to my help, I had destroyed one future completely. I didn't know if that was the correct answer. Even though this deduction was so weak that if I were to say "Here's a problem for our readers to discuss", I'd probably be condemned as an idiot; but it wasn't easy trying to dispel a wild thought that I had just formulated. When I thought about this, I just didn't know what to say. Was there more?" Doesn't sound like he agrees with your definition. And then Mikuru Big "The divergence points are mostly concentrated in this time period, though a lot would end up the same, anyway; but the things that you have done the past few days, if not done, would create divergences that would lead to all sorts of futures..." Asahina-san's charming voice began to grow weak, "Very soon you will be faced with a great divergence, a choice that would cause a great change to the future... If you chose the other side, then it... um... it wouldn't be good for our future." I suddenly felt stiff for no reason, and I had wanted to turn and face Asahina-san. Damn, why can't I turn my face!? "But it doesn't matter, because I can trust you, right?" Sounds like she also thinks that the future can be changed. Quote:
Asahina-san elaborated in simple terms. "For us future time-travelers, that is a predetermined event; but for you and the recipient of the data, it's a coincidence. That's how time works," |
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2010-03-14, 11:23 | Link #3115 |
Goddess
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: On Earth
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^If Asahina (Big) thinks that the the future can be manipulated, she kind of contradicted herself because she also believes that there is no contunuity between the past and future. (Her future, our present)
(BTW, after a long time of lurking, i've finally decided to join the forum. )
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2010-03-17, 10:17 | Link #3116 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: North Carolina
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2010-03-17, 10:37 | Link #3117 | |
Moo
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And welcome! |
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2010-03-17, 17:47 | Link #3120 |
ねぇ、知ってる?
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: florida
Age: 39
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Huh?
That's the first novel. And it's been shown in other threads (I believe it may even be this one) that the image doesn't wrap properly for that part of the picture to be used for the 10th novel's cover. There would have to be some photoshopping or extending done for it to work. Last edited by keri; 2010-03-17 at 17:51. Reason: this IS the novel & manga thread -.- |
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shounen, sneaker bunko, seinen, light novels, manga |
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