Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only)

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by alu546

That is partially true, but I remember a few years ago that Hata also said this was originally supposed to be about Hinagiku, but it ended up being to serious a story to quuualify as Shonen. So using that as my most clear(frooom my memory) example, I go back to my previous statement. It feels like he is cramming every story he has ever written into one. It doesnt matter what it was at the conceptual stage, the point is to bring her in so late is foring me to suspend disbelief, as opposed to the fondness I wouldve felt fo her had I known who she was in the previous 16 volumes. This is supposed to be HnG, not Royal Garden. Anyway, I probably wont catch up all the way until tomorrow.

The Katsuri sisters had a different story for them with their debts (which took place 10 years before HnG time-line wise) but it failed, and Hata recycled the characters as he always does and put them in HnG.

The Royal Garden was the original plan of HnG with some changes so you can't really classify them as two different manga. Introducing a character so late was a risky move done by Hata, but he pulled it off beautiful, I think. I have no complaints.

[GlassesLady]

Originally Posted by alu546

quuualify

Originally Posted by alu546

frooom

._.;;

Originally Posted by Game8910

at this point I dont care about any character getting developed that isnt named Maria

So if another character named 'Maria' showed up, you'd care?

Yeah, anyway, I suspect the next arc will focus on what Nagi's gonna do now her fortune's gone, or if it's even gone at all, or whatever.

[frivolity]

alu:
That I agree with. It doesn't matter what the story was at the conceptual stage, what matters is what actually was published. Take Sailor Moon for example, where Naoko Takeuchi originally created Sailor V before Sailor Moon. Many of Usagi's traits were taken from the original Minako, just as how Nagi could possibly be seen as an expy of Royal Garden's Athena. Although Takeuchi later inserted her into Sailor Moon, Minako was no longer the female lead, and her character developed differently from Usagi.

Hata, on the other hand, seems to be trying to change HnG to fit his original story as a form of vindication for his earlier works. I felt as though I was reading a completely different manga for the last few chapters of HnG, with a Mary-Sue thrown at me. I don't buy it at all.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by GlassesLady

Yeah, anyway, I suspect the next arc will focus on what Nagi's gonna do now her fortune's gone, or if it's even gone at all, or whatever.

I'd really love it if some genre-savvy character showed up and pointed out that Hayate filled the former requirements for the inheritance, thus giving a somewhat plausible excuse to the attacks against him, and him willing it back to Nagi. Thus ending the debate, returning life to normal and once again stating his devotion to Nagi all in one fell swoop.
Causing Nagi to have a debt to repay Hayate for as well

[alu546]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

The Katsuri sisters had a different story for them with their debts (which took place 10 years before HnG time-line wise) but it failed, and Hata recycled the characters as he always does and put them in HnG.

The Royal Garden was the original plan of HnG with some changes so you can't really classify them as two different manga. Introducing a character so late was a risky move done by Hata, but he pulled it off beautiful, I think. I have no complaints.

I have a question for you, have you been following the manga weekly or off annd on in little spurts like I have? The reason for that is thatt I believe it is easier to accept her addition if you have been following weekly because of the timeframe, whereas she has come in and seemingly took control of the story in about 30 minutes for me after many hours of reading and built up affections for what were seemingly very important characters at the time.


My opinions on her developement are still open to change as I read along, but I fear that my opinion may persist if she befomes a permanent looming fixture within the story.

Ofcourse, my opinion on thhis is probably relative. But I do have one important belief about the story in HnG, but ill withhold it publically because while it certainnly isntt a swipe at certain female characters(would apply to many in the harem), I dont think Athena fans would want to hear it.


EDIT: Glasseslady: Im tired and dont feel up to proofreading. But trust me, it was far worse than that originally lol

frivolitty: Thanks, I am glad I am not solo on that thoughtpath. I feel the same way.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by alu546

I have a question for you, have you been following the manga weekly or off annd on in little spurts like I have? The reason for that is thatt I believe it is easier to accept her addition if you have been following weekly because of the timeframe, whereas she has come in and seemingly took control of the story in about 30 minutes for me after many hours of reading and built up affections for what were seemingly very important characters at the time.

My opinions on her developement are still open to change as I read along, but I fear that my opinion may persist if she befomes a permanent looming fixture within the story.

Ofcourse, my opinion on thhis is probably relative. But I do have one important believe about the story in HnG, but ill withhold it publically because while it certainnly isntt a swipe at certain female characters(would apply to many in the harem), I dont think Athena fans would want to hear it.

I never said that I have a problem with your dislike or like about the manga (or her), nor did I try to change it. I won't want to go there.

[Used Can]

Well, from the beginning, Hayate should never have been burdened with any debt. To begin with, he's a minor, and second, if debt was to be transferred, legal procedures ought to have been made.

In fact, leaving aside this is a manga, Hayate could easily get rid of this burden by contacting the authorities, and then telling them what happened. This way, the "debt" he has with Nagi would be transferred to his parents (i.e. assuming they have an actual record).

Originally Posted by alu546

I have a question for you, have you been following the manga weekly or off annd on in little spurts like I have? The reason for that is thatt I believe it is easier to accept her addition if you have been following weekly because of the timeframe, whereas she has come in and seemingly took control of the story in about 30 minutes for me after many hours of reading and built up affections for what were seemingly very important characters at the time.

I don't think it really matters whether you've been following the manga closely or not, but how much attached you're to a character or to a relationship. I for one, used to be a huge Hina and Maria fan (with Hina having a slight lead), but there were several things that made me start losing interest in the characters and the manga, like the scanlations being sloooow as fuck (we had to wait like what... 6 months for one release from MQ?), and the manga felt far to repetitive for me, not to mention Hina kept on making no advances, and Maria didn't get any focus.

I remember when I first read about Hayate's flashback, I hoped the girl would be either Maria or Hina (I thought she was Maria, since looking at her from the back, that's what A-tan looked like). There were many people who said it could be a different person, but I thought that'd be a stupid idea, considering we were like, 87 chapters into the story. However, 90 chapters later, we got into the EotW mini-arc, Athena got properly introduced, and I loved her, immediately. She had many of the traits that I liked from other characters (Hina's strength and leadership, Maria's maturity, Nagi's mistress status, Isumi's mysteriousness, Ayumu's straightforwardness), but she had her own flavour. In addition to her positive traits, she also had her negative traits, which I also became fond of. In addition to all of these, she her addition gave Hayate a background, and it gave the story a plot.

[zodanhko]

Hmm...Speaking of debt, I wonder if Mikado will still transfer Hayate's debt to Athena like he mentioned since the stone is destroyed. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Well, from the beginning, Hayate should never have been burdened with any debt. To begin with, he's a minor, and second, if debt was to be transferred, legal procedures ought to have been made.

In fact, leaving aside this is a manga, Hayate could easily get rid of this burden by contacting the authorities, and then telling them what happened. This way, the "debt" he has with Nagi would be transferred to his parents (i.e. assuming they have an actual record).

Um.. the 'debt' Hayate has to Nagi was his own choice to take on, she was originally intending to give the money as a gift, Hayate insisted that he repay it. It was only made his 'debt' when he insulted Nagi (fully reasonable considering the paper-thin mask she was wearing to hide her identity).

Could he have even gotten to any reasonable authority and gotten it handled before getting caught by the 'very nice men'?

[GlassesLady]

Originally Posted by alu546

EDIT: Glasseslady: Im tired and dont feel up to proofreading. But trust me, it was far worse than that originally lol

Whatever, those typos were epic, man. Epiiiic.

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

I'd really love it if some genre-savvy character showed up and pointed out that Hayate filled the former requirements for the inheritance, thus giving a somewhat plausible excuse to the attacks against him, and him willing it back to Nagi. Thus ending the debate, returning life to normal and once again stating his devotion to Nagi all in one fell swoop.
Causing Nagi to have a debt to repay Hayate for as well

Nice, nice.... But I was more thinking that Mikado might have second thoughts about disowning Nagi once he finds out that it was Nagi herself that broke the stone. Or something.

[alu546]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

I never said that I have a problem with your dislike or like about the manga (or her), nor did I try to change it. I won't want to go there.

Oh no I didnt mean it toward you, it was more of a general thing, not aboutt who I like and dislike. Butt basically my take on what Hayate no Gotoku is about would make fans of an athenaxhayate pairing go to lengths to tell me how wrong I am and I donot want that. Anyways, its not that I dislike her, i just feel like she is one to many girls in hayates harem that shouldve had their own story but didn.

[zodanhko]

Well then, to answer your question, I actually quit before since it began to drag with what seen to be repetitive humors to me. I wasn't really an active reader of HnG until the introduction of the EotW arc, and as you have already guess it, I pretty much loved Athena character immediately. And my reasons are pretty much the same as Used above. I, quite literally, taken a like of her the moment she introduced because I kind of knew what her characteristics would be like from her actions and tone.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Hmm...Speaking of debt, I wonder if Mikado will still transfer Hayate's debt to Athena like he mentioned since the stone is destroyed. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

He won't, since Hayate didn't become Athena's butler, and the one who destroyed the stone was Nagi herself.

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Um.. the 'debt' Hayate has to Nagi was his own choice to take on, she was originally intending to give the money as a gift, Hayate insisted that he repay it. It was only made his 'debt' when he insulted Nagi (fully reasonable considering the paper-thin mask she was wearing to hide her identity).

I know Hayate decided to re-pay that debt on his own. What I said before was under the pretence that Hayate didn't want that debt.

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Could he have even gotten to any reasonable authority and gotten it handled before getting caught by the 'very nice men'?

Since this is HnG, then the answer is no. However, in a normal situation, if your parents or anyone else intended to burden you with any debt, they'd have to go through legal procedures and, obviously, have your consent. Otherwise, you could always contact any authority.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Used Can

He won't, since Hayate didn't become Athena's butler, and the one who destroyed the stone was Nagi herself.

I was thinking that if it were to happen, it would be after Nagi return to Japan to see whether she would be disinherited or not. And assuming if Mikado is really going to disinherit Nagi due to the stone being destroyed, then I guess it won't matter who destroyed it unless Mikado was thinking that he would only make Hayate being Athena's servant(or separate Hayate from Nagi) if Hayate did something that oppose him.

I know that the chance is slim to none. But that could be a twist.

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Hmm...Speaking of debt, I wonder if Mikado will still transfer Hayate's debt to Athena like he mentioned since the stone is destroyed. Surprise, surprise, surprise.

Technically, he only implied that Athena might take on his debt. Mikado doesn't, and didn't plan to, have his hands in it, since the debt is entirely Nagi's to deal with. Athena would have to deal with Nagi to take it on, not Mikado.

Originally Posted by Used Can

Since this is HnG, then the answer is no. However, in a normal situation, if your parents or anyone else intended to burden you with any debt, they'd have to go through legal procedures and, obviously, have your consent. Otherwise, you could always contact any authority.

Considering the method they used to obtain his money, they were considered his legal guardians, and thus would have been considered fully able to sell Hayate to the 'very nice men'. It's clear that they were working outside the law anyway, so no legal preceedings were needed.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Technically, he only implied that Athena might take on his debt. Mikado doesn't, and didn't plan to, have his hands in it, since the debt is entirely Nagi's to deal with. Athena would have to deal with Nagi to take it on, not Mikado.

Well, Mikado said if "Nagi loses the inheritance, Hayate would probably become Athena's butler" and the "150m debt would be transferred to Athena."
So, if Nagi has the money to pay the debt for Hayate, she could keep him. But if she doesn't have the money, she has no right to keep Hayate. And it will depend on whether or not Athena will pay the debt to Mikado, not Nagi.

[Game8910]

if Nagi pays the debt she wouldnt own Hayate, no one owns Hayate if he clears his debt, he can easily say "k thank bye" and leave the Nagi state debt free once its paid, of course he would never do that. If you think about it....Hayate is not in the most terrible situation if u think about it....I guess befriending millionaires has an advantage xD

[Bastion_Arcion]

Originally Posted by zodanhko

Well, Mikado said if "Nagi loses the inheritance, Hayate would probably become Athena's butler" and the "150m debt would be transferred to Athena."
So, if Nagi has the money to pay the debt for Hayate, she could keep him. But if she doesn't have the money, she has no right to keep Hayate. And it will depend on whether or not Athena will pay the debt to Mikado, not Nagi.

Um.. do people not notice that the debt doesn't consist of money anymore?
Hayate took on a debt of 'honor' out of gratitude for Nagi paying it off. He holds no more bonds to the debt his parents left him.

His debt is to Nagi herself, not to her money. And that's before you factor in the promise he made to her.

[zodanhko]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Um.. do people not notice that the debt doesn't consist of money anymore?
Hayate took on a debt of 'honor' out of gratitude for Nagi paying it off. He holds no more bonds to the debt his parents left him.

His debt is to Nagi herself, not to her money. And that's before you factor in the promise he made to her.

Not really.
Hayate can't voice if Mikado wants him to pay the debt because he still does owe the money (the working for 40 years to pay the debt isn't really a joke). Hayate doesn't belong to Nagi but to Mikado if Nagi lost the right to the inheritances. That is the reason why Mikado stated that Hayate's debt of "150m would be transferred to Athena."

He owes debt of gratitude to Nagi, but he owes the debt of money to Mikado which means Mikado can give Hayate to anyone if they pay. This is similar to when Nagi sold Hayate to Isumi.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Bastion_Arcion

Considering the method they used to obtain his money, they were considered his legal guardians, and thus would have been considered fully able to sell Hayate to the 'very nice men'. It's clear that they were working outside the law anyway, so no legal preceedings were needed.

That, they could have done, but all the same, that'd assume that the 'very nice men' would have wanted to get Hayate instead of their money.

Originally Posted by zodanhko

And it will depend on whether or not Athena will pay the debt to Mikado, not Nagi.

She won't. In the latest chapter, one of the things she told Hayate to have him make up his mind and go back to Nagi was something like this:

Athena: Well, I can clear your (insert sum of money here) debt.
Hayate: Hmmm... well...
Athena: See? You can't do that, right?