2013-07-02, 18:28 | Link #241 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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So yes, this means he has to face insults from a bratty overachieving girl three years his junior. But it's not as if he started out respecting her or her opinion, so her insults weren't going to stick. If anything, it brings out the same sort of competitive spirit that drove her to emulate his former self: I'll show you I'm not that worthless. Little by little, his competitiveness and drive returns. Because, even though he knows he's a normal person, he finally realizes that he wants to be a good older brother and that he has a long ways to go. I think you're empathizing with Kyousuke, but you're not really understanding his thought process. Kyousuke and Kirino are siblings, and in a lot of ways they're a lot more similar than they care to admit. "The same blood runs through their veins" is more than just a metaphor. And everything that Kirino became was modelled after who Kyousuke was growing up, and that part of him is still in there somewhere. So the frustration Kirino felt at Kyousuke's sudden change gets channelled through Kirino into the frustration Kyousuke feels at his own limitations, and this compels him to finally move forward. By the end of the story, he's come to terms with his complete persona. This isn't to say that everything Kirino did is okay, as even she admits her fault. But I think it's important to consider how Kyousuke seemed to perceive it, not just the way you would perceive it in his place. It's pretty clear that you consider Kirino irredeemable, but you're not her older brother.
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2013-07-02, 20:17 | Link #242 |
✘˵╹◡╹˶✘
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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If you hate a character, you won't be able to give a fair judgement on that character, simple as that. Because then you tend to take lines out of context and ignore those that does not support your impression.
So for those of us who think Kirino is an abusive, love to look down on others and acts out on vengeance, can you tell me What did she do.... not what did she say, but what did she do... showing her to have those character traits?. Because she is abusive, maybe she bullied Kuroneko and threat her to stay away from Kyousuke? She full of vengeance so she went to Kyousuke and Manami school to spread bad words on them, or get her friends teaching them a lesson (Ayase is more than capable here)? Or maybe just purposely get Kyousuke into troubles with their parents, especially the dotting father? She looks down on others , so she found no need to turn up to her friend events or party? You know the drill. There you can list out all of the bad things Kirino did (remember what she DID, NOT what she SAID) and see if you can do that without ending up have to interpret her line or resort to your subjective perception of her. Just tell me what her actions and the consequences were, that made you despite her so much
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2013-07-03, 01:54 | Link #243 |
Segmentation fault
Join Date: Mar 2011
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@ryuujinjaaka
i still wouldn't call it vengeful. it's a very specific and definite word - seeking revenge. none of kiri's action speaks of this. it just don't fit. regarding your points: 1. not sure why you highlighted her 'negative' traits while ignoring her more positive ones. do you know how kiri speaks of kyou when he's not around? when she speaks of him to her friends - ayase, kanako, and ran? what are kiri and kuroneko's sms exchanges all about? how do you think kuro fell in love with kyou if the messages are nothing but insults between the siblings? how come kuro came up kiri as brocon? 2. the kuroneko part got deleted but anyway, you should also pay attention to kuro's language or the manner how she speaks to others. if you're anime-only watch 'my junior can't be this rotten' *hint: title* 3. these statements of yours are just claims and not facts. and the author is not trying to salvage kiri's character. he designed it this way because there must be a reason why she ended up this - the history behind it all. he's not telling you to like her, he's explaining kiri's development as a character not for fandom satisfaction. |
2013-07-03, 02:08 | Link #244 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Germany
Age: 30
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@kaigan
It's not Kirino seeking revenge,but just she wanted to keep with him,we all agree on this. For point 1: Biggest evidence is when Kuroneko tells Kyousuke that she loves him as much as his sister loves him,she also repeats it in a later Volume or S2 Ep6. Point 2: Cant really add any because the title speaks for itself. Point 3: You simply have ''genuine'' hate for her @ryuujinjaaka , and thats why you will never have any fair judgement. The author himself admitted that he disliked Kirino at the start but through time she shows her true side(thats what character development is called),he never intended for the reader to forcibly like her, and there was always a reason for her behavior.
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2013-07-04, 12:35 | Link #245 | ||||||
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Netherlands
Age: 35
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After Kyousuke's change, she continued with this idea to prove to Kyousuke that the way he used to live like was better than how he was living now. Of course, frustration about 'losing' her loved one was one of her drives as well. In Kirino's eyes, she herself represented the old active Kyousuke. In other words, her ideal person. Basically, this was Kirino's way of saying that she hated the way Kyousuke was acting like now and that she wanted him to return to his active self. Maybe she even hoped that this would 'awaken' the active Kyousuke sleeping within as well. Quote:
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Kirino has a faul mouth, but Kyousuke didn't really seem to care when they were still ignoring each other. He didn't take her seriously, since he didn't really care about her back then. The facts that Kirino was so good in everything and that everyone was constantly praising her were actually irritating him more back then. Only when they just started talking again did Kyousuke seem to mind, since he saw her as ungrateful, but he still didn't take the insults too seriously though. But he came to understand her, slowly but surely. He actually compares her to tsundere characters (Rinko-rin) at a few occasions. Kyousuke actually seems to be able to translate Kirino's 'tsundere' language for the most part in the end. Also, she doesn't want her brother to suffer. She goes a bit too far at times, I won't deny this, but this doesn't mean that she wants to make him suffer. Kirino is a very emotional person and often acts before thinking when she's angry/embarrassed. Her pride might be the biggest problem here. Even if she knows that she did something wrong, she has trouble admitting it. On the whole she's pretty mature for her age, but she can be really childish too. Anyways, the show is about growing up. Kyousuke and especially Kirino are still young. They have made and will make mistakes because of their childish logic. There are times when their emotions get the better of them. The most important thing is that they learn from their mistakes and grow because of them. Quote:
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But she doesn't look down on people. She looked down on (the lazy) Kyousuke and hated Manami, but she had her personal reasons for that as I already explained before. But can you name any other people she looks down onto? Since you call it a fact, then how about showing me some examples? I sure hope that you don't bring up Kuroneko here, since that would mean that you don't understand both of their characters at all. I don't like it when people jump the gun. You're making it sound like he dislikes Kirino in that scene because he likes Kuroneko. You can actually like or dislike both girls, but still feel sorry for one of them in a certain situation. Not everyone feels the same after reading/seeing a scene. Everyone has his/her own thoughts about it.
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2013-07-04, 14:00 | Link #246 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Germany
Age: 30
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@Deathscyther
I like the way you analyzed her is somehow similar to mine,although you went into detail more, I tend to make it short and right to the point. But one thing is for sure, I never intended to say that he hates Kirino because he likes Kuroneko. His point of kirino looking down on others specifically Kuroneko just made me assume that he tends to like her, I really don't jump to conclusions but thats what I feel. Anyway, I have said this and you have repeated it, I really want him to bring an example of her looking down on others, other than Kuroneko(it really means he never understood them if he does bring her) and the lazy Kyousuke and her eternal ''enemy'' Manami (we all know the reasons so yeah). Maybe you can call me biased,but that's what I got from reading the LN and Kirino had the most character development throughout along with Kyousuke regaining confidence and finding a better way of life (the peace loving and his super side) just like Kirino, her otaku side is a part of her and without it she would not be herself.
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2013-07-25, 07:06 | Link #248 |
大佐
Join Date: Jun 2013
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In preparation for the final episodes next month I've started to rewatch the episodes. Just noticed that Kirino is not only buying imouto-type eroge. She has the entire School Days collection, including Summer and Cross Days in her treasury.
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2013-07-25, 16:36 | Link #249 |
Incognito
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: At the end of the abyss
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Moral of the story, dont make tsundere characters since they are difficult to like. I do wonder what fan response would have been if the story revolved around her school life.
Personally I think the anime adaptation kind of one sided focused on the tsun aspect of her character and caused a spike in the amount of people who disliked her.
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Last edited by finalfury; 2013-07-25 at 16:51. |
2013-08-06, 19:36 | Link #250 |
Dave's not here, man
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: The Canyons of your Mind
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I've been reading this series for about a month now. Sticking to the published manga volumes, so I'm probably not as far into the story as many people are, but I plan to start watching the anime when I get a block of time to do it.
Anyway, it seems like there is a lot of Kirino-hate in the fan community for this series, so it's refreshing to see people in a thread sticking up for her. I personally have liked her from the start. She has sort of an image that she's created for herself that doesn't allow for her to be into the kind of stuff that she's into, so she's in a position where she has to maintain her image on one side and explore the otaku universe in secret at the same time. She's admittedly kind of a brat, but I mostly think it's a front. "Tsundere" is probably the appropriate term for her personality type, although I've never cared for that term. Anyway, I think her brattiness and obnoxiousness are mostly a defense mechanism, and that makes her an endearing character, imo. I get why people like Kuroneko, and I don't dislike her, but I do find her kind of generic and boring so far; too much of a typical portrayal of a Japanese girl otaku. Comparatively I prefer Kirino so far; I like her tastes (magical girl and imouto-type stuff) and I can relate somewhat to her predicament. I was never part of the popular crowd, but my friends in high school were mostly delinquent metal-fan types who would have laughed themselves silly had they found out what kind of stuff I was into. I didn't make any otaku friends until college. Also, anyone who thinks it's abnormal for siblings to behave with outward hostility towards each other never had siblings. Anyway, those are my thoughts.
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2013-08-19, 20:46 | Link #251 | |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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I used to not like her...(her otaku side kept me from hating her...)but she got a lot better with season 2. Knowing her backstory and everything...it's hard not to pity her.
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Anyway, I'd take a Kugimiya tsundere over Kirino any day...but I no longer dislike Kirino. I did read her character a little off though. In the beginning I thought: Spoiler:
Well........that was probably still true...but now I know there's a lot more to it than that....
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Last edited by Chiibi; 2013-08-19 at 21:06. |
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2013-08-19, 22:16 | Link #252 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
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I have to say that I strongly prefer tsundere love interests in a love comedy. Idealized girlfriend/boyfriend types tend to be rather flat, uninteresting characters that don't have any passion beyond their love for the main character, except when it serves as a moe point.
Tsundere have strong personalities with strong passions and a fierce pride in what they do. I find it so much easier to love and empathize with a character with deeper and often conflicted motivations and interests. It makes them that much more human. |
2013-08-20, 00:10 | Link #253 | |
Vanitas owns you >:3
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..........characters without emotional problems are BORING. The tsundere's pride is one of their best assets-it's so hilarious when they go to pieces trying to defend it and fail miserably.
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2013-08-20, 00:11 | Link #254 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 41
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I too, though, always read her that way from the get-go... but the added clarifications make her behaviour a bit easier to parse. Yeah, I'm personally drawn to these characters for similar reasons... but particularly, I love the moment when their conflicted feelings are finally exposed, because it feels like such a release from all the tension. Like the end to some sort of hard-fought internal battle, and finally the waters calm and the world is at peace. This in particular was extremely well presented in this story to me, and is one of the things I most like about it.
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2013-08-20, 01:35 | Link #255 | |
大佐
Join Date: Jun 2013
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2013-08-20, 02:37 | Link #256 |
Member
Join Date: May 2013
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i don't know where i should exactly post this, but have you guys seen this yet? some people just get too desperate. XD
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitio...-with-kirino-2
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2013-08-20, 02:42 | Link #257 | |
大佐
Join Date: Jun 2013
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2013-08-20, 02:49 | Link #258 | |
Imouto Lover x3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Germany
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It can't be that some people are taking this serious right? That's just too dumb xD At least to me it looks more like a joke than like a serious petition. |
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2013-08-20, 02:50 | Link #259 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
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Seriously, one of the thing I like in Kirino is her confident in everything. Yes, it easily slip into tsuntsun bitchy like they said, but without them, hell, then what is left of her? |
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