Phantom Pain - Metal Gear Solid V

[Drake]

I've payed a lot more and got a lot less from some AAA titles in the past, but I've gotten my £15 worth out of Ground Zeros and loved every minute.

If people think its scam then the solution is simple, don't buy it.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Drake

I've payed a lot more and got a lot less from some AAA titles in the past, but I've gotten my £15 worth out of Ground Zeros and loved every minute.

If people think its scam then the solution is simple, don't buy it.

The problem is that solution doesn't resolve the long term implications. We're already seeing people getting money chipped away from them with dlc. Now if we start seeing parts of games released in demo form being sold for a decent amount of money...it could be a really dark time for gaming coming up.

This situation shows they can get away with it. Franchise fans will leap at anything with the name on it no matter how overpriced.

[kenjiharima]

Like said. Imho if and only you want the saves from GZ to carry over to the Phantom Pain will be worth it I think it's worth the buy if you do not want to pay for DLC.

I'm "REALLY" just hoping Kojima makes MGSTPP a "VERY" long game, also note in MGSTPP will have mid bosses that you can "MISS" or "SKIP" depending on the route and time you take to get to a certain area.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/gDMzOhdIXMI

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"Experience This" before Phantom Pain nuff said

YouTube

https://youtu.be/yEFGCmGO7mU

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EDIT:

His 1 hour interview

YouTube

https://youtu.be/owxT2sAOJQw

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[Kyero Fox]

You can't hate Kojima too much. I doubt the decision to make the Ground Zeros the price it is wasn't up to him entirely. Also he's just a cool guy.

[Ryonea]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Just listen to the tapes. Those tapes. Those goddamn tapes. Props to the VA's (Especially Tara Strong).

Originally Posted by blakstealth

Went to a friend's house yesterday and got the chance to play the game....and beat it? lmao

I haven't played Peace Walker, but

Spoiler:

goddamn that ending. Did they really kill off Paz like that? wow

Finally managed to get all of Chico's tapes and...

Spoiler:

I was missing the 4th, 5th, and 7th back then. But wow, the 4th and 7th are horrifying indeed.

It was rape alright and Chico was forced to do so too since the 7th was about the bomb. But damn... I never knew that some of her organs were removed to make room for the 1st bomb and her lifespan was only 24 hours left so she was doomed without the bombs anyway. And while it's not really clear, I think we get the idea of where the 2nd bomb placement could be...

I wonder how Chico will cope with this, assuming that he survived the incident. And thanks to those tapes, the "Here's to You" song now sounds dreadful and kind of ominous to me

I really like how Kiefer voiced Big Boss here, especially when he meets Chico and Paz. His voice was so comforting IMO and gives a fatherly vibe to it. Not really sure about Skullface's though. The stories around omega camp portrays him as a truly fearsome character, but when I hear him talk... well, he is nowhere near that impression IMO.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

The problem is that solution doesn't resolve the long term implications. We're already seeing people getting money chipped away from them with dlc. Now if we start seeing parts of games released in demo form being sold for a decent amount of money...it could be a really dark time for gaming coming up.

This situation shows they can get away with it. Franchise fans will leap at anything with the name on it no matter how overpriced.

Sony basically started it with Gran Turismo 5 Prologue. When that was kosher then everything else is (and to be fair Ground Zeros has quite a bit more content than Prologue had )

[kenjiharima]

Speaking of voices. Keifer did a good voice for BigBoss through out every mission except Dejavu, because it's really awkward to hear the old dialogues of Solid Snake being said by Keifer. I now view them as 2 separate characters after having 2 different VA's.

Also finished Dejavu in Hard. DAMN!!! Gray Fox!!! OMG! At least we got 2 of the best skins. Raiden in the Xboxone ver. has more running speed, but cqc and hand to hand it's still Snake/BigBoss.

Edit:

Two different points of views review

YongYea it's a game, but has flaws, you cannot hid guards inside trash bins and knocking on walls are gone and he did not enjoy the DeJavu Mission

YouTube

https://youtu.be/O81InY3lY-Y

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Here's another youtube review that think it's a demo.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/uPHmD8wlFX8

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But ALL reviewers agree this is the BEST GRAPHICS and the BEST gameplay control had any MGS game ever had! For me it's just short and I really miss a boss battle. A tank will not do for me.

[Kyero Fox]

A Demo.....yes... a demo that includes superior graphics to almost all games out there to date. Full Gameplay, a huge open area and tons of things to collect...

Yes...demo, I think the Super Best Friends podcast described it the best. "Only bad reviewers call it a demo"

[Freeter]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

I think the Super Best Friends podcast described it the best. "Only bad reviewers call it a demo"

Best Friends don't even review games, who are they to judge

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

A Demo.....yes... a demo that includes superior graphics to almost all games out there to date. Full Gameplay, a huge open area and tons of things to collect...

A demo is, by definition, a small sample for the public so they have a taste of what the real game will be.
So it is obvious it is an exaggeration in term of term usage, but it is accurate in term of purpose: 1h-2h for the main game, only 1 objective, not stand alone at all, barely any signature content for MGS aside of the gameplay (scenario, boss battles etc).

It isn't a "huge open area" considering the size of the base. And "a lot of things to collect" is an artificial feature to increase the lifespan of a short game.

It cannot be considered as a demo, due to its content, but it cannot be considered as a stand alone game either. And for that, it does irk people for good reasons.
I believe those who justify the short span of the game simply because of the gameplay and hidden gimmicks are the bad reviewers.

[Drake]

It was never marketed as a full game pretty much from the offset, as soon as we where told ground zero's was stand alone from MGSV:TPP, we where told it was a short prologue to the main game and would cost less.

If it was comparable to anything it would be closer to episodic gaming than what could be considered a demo.

[kenjiharima]

Meaning it's like the game is sold like "The Walking Dead" by Tell a Tale games, chapter by chapter imagine if MGS4 was sold like that! OMG!!!! It's really a bad marketing practice imho, if ever gaming companies see this kind of trend they and will push through with this kind of marketing it will be bad for the consumer we will either have always a half experience of a full game with a cliffhanger, but on the flip side of the coin. Things you do here which are unlocked will carry over to MGSTPP which is good where you don't have to pay for those possible skins and other DLC stuff.

I just really hope this won't be a trend in the next installation of the MGS franchise or other gaming franchise. Also looking at Kojima's perspective, he's an old school gamer, where in which he finds enjoyment in replaying a game over and over again, which is true, I played TMNT in time over and over and I can still finish that in an hour, but I still wanna go back and play it. The reasoning here is fun and replay value of the game. Did Kojima make MGSVGZ fun and replayable? Imho I'd say yes.

[Ryonea]

Originally Posted by kenjiharima

Also finished Dejavu in Hard. DAMN!!! Gray Fox!!! OMG! At least we got 2 of the best skins. Raiden in the Xboxone ver. has more running speed, but cqc and hand to hand it's still Snake/BigBoss.

The Gray Fox skin has those electric effect while running similar to Raiden, but I'm not really sure whether it also has the speed increase or not.

Anyone managed to S-rank the intel operative rescue mission (the one where we become the support fire on our chopper) on hard difficulty?
my best was 14 minutes with 2 retries and no kill. Score is around 22k, but I only got rank A. That mission was quite painful for me to restart over and over again. Is there some tricks to make the shooting easier (such as taking out the searchlights on the beginning) or I simply have to try harder?

The first 2 watchtowers and the jeep and truck chasing after the "critical VIP" was particularly difficult for me, especially the latter.

[SOGESNAKE]

Originally Posted by Ryonea

The Gray Fox skin has those electric effect while running similar to Raiden, but I'm not really sure whether it also has the speed increase or not.

Yeah, MGS1 Gray Fox skin does increase your overall running speed, plus straight out running into enemies has a chance of knocking them out too~

Drawback from what I noticed is that I think the range for CQC take-downs seems alittle shorter...

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

A demo is, by definition, a small sample for the public so they have a taste of what the real game will be.
So it is obvious it is an exaggeration in term of term usage, but it is accurate in term of purpose: 1h-2h for the main game, only 1 objective, not stand alone at all, barely any signature content for MGS aside of the gameplay (scenario, boss battles etc).

It isn't a "huge open area" considering the size of the base. And "a lot of things to collect" is an artificial feature to increase the lifespan of a short game.

It cannot be considered as a demo, due to its content, but it cannot be considered as a stand alone game either. And for that, it does irk people for good reasons.
I believe those who justify the short span of the game simply because of the gameplay and hidden gimmicks are the bad reviewers.

Then it's really funny that people would give Dead Rising 2 Case Zero a 100% pass. 15$ for a demo that's only lengthened by a gameplay mechanic forcing you to not be able to beat it asap.

You also forgot to mention Graphics, voice acting and such. I highly doubt that this "demo" was cheap to make. So the demo's score shouldn't be hurt by a reviewers pocket.

Ground Zero's price is better than Titanfall's over priced small multiplayer and super scrapped together singleplayer.

On another note, I can't be raged about all this when there are ways to get and play the game for 10$ish or just watch it on the internet and them lose money on something they put effort in. If it was 40$ still I would be a little upset however.

Anyway, It's not a scam. If you think it is, just watch it on the internet or rent it and beat the main story quest. But that'd be pointless if you're playing it for metal gear story. Because then you'd miss all the other story stuff that is importaint.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Then it's really funny that people would give Dead Rising 2 Case Zero a 100% pass. 15$ for a demo that's only lengthened by a gameplay mechanic forcing you to not be able to beat it asap.

People didn't. A lot of people were actually worring that Capcom would continue in their DLC spree and "deliver games in several pieces".

You also forgot to mention Graphics, voice acting and such. I highly doubt that this "demo" was cheap to make. So the demo's score shouldn't be hurt by a reviewers pocket.

It isn't a matter of being a demo or not. What's the obvious part is that Ground Zeroes was obviously part of Phantom Pain, and they decided to split the prologue from the rest of the game to have 2 products to sell, instead of 1.
From a business perspective, it gives an additional revenue, despite it was already capitalized in the very one game they -already planned-.

Phantom Pain is -already- destined to be a success product anyway. So are you telling me that GZ still cost "money" despite it was definitely part of PP, hence already invested clearly on the long run?
If GZ was produced specifically to introduce PP, and that GZ couldn't be part of a single game, I wouldn't have said anything. But the PR, marketing, game structure etc tell you otherwise.

Ground Zero's price is better than Titanfall's over priced small multiplayer and super scrapped together singleplayer.

I don't care about the other games, but as far as it goes, Titanfall actually do have its full length intended. It is rather the customers who decide if the game really worth the price or not, since outside of potential DLC, the game is -done-. Unlike GZ which is obviously a small portion of MGS5, Titanfall is, albeit short, complete. So people won't have a surprise "hey guys, you paid a full game? Now pay again for the real game!" issue.

On another note, I can't be raged about all this when there are ways to get and play the game for 10$ish or just watch it on the internet and them lose money on something they put effort in. If it was 40$ still I would be a little upset however.

This is ludicrous as far as your argument can get: unless a game is most notably cutscenes etc, it is worthless to "watch" videos instead of playing (unless you are "that" type of gamer, which make video games purchases completely moot then).
And the fact you can get it for 10$ implies you are just waiting for it to be sold on the second hand market, which can be applied to ANY other game.
And even so, it doesn't stop the issue that you have to pay nearly a full game price for a truncated content that you pre-ordered. While people were warned GZ was "only a prologue", I really doubt people were expecting only a 1-2h prologue.

Anyway, It's not a scam. If you think it is, just watch it on the internet or rent it and beat the main story quest. But that'd be pointless if you're playing it for metal gear story. Because then you'd miss all the other story stuff that is importaint.

I find it funny that you think it is pointless if I'm for the story, exactly because Ground Zeroes does NOT contribute anything major to the plot line AT ALL. You just have Paz, Chico, some tapes and... what?
You have a mere cliffhanger, but I hardly think I learned that much from the "great scenario" of MGS5. At least, GZ does make you want to learn more, but that's exactly because you barely learned anything in GZ to that effect.

I wouldn't really call it a scam right away, but it is clearly a cash grab no matter how you look at it.
It is just the same as taking any popular game, removing its prologue and sell it months prior the actual game for nearly a full game price.
What if Dark Souls had Undead Asylum sold 30€ before the actual game? I can bring countless examples of that, and it would lead to the same issue and consequences: it is not a game. A game requires to be fine on its own right, and if it absolutely another game to be complete, that's just content, hence the critics that GZ is just a fraction of PP, and not an actual game/prequel.

Thus, I clearly agree with people who say that GZ is like releasing MGS2 Tanker alone, then PP is like releasing Plant chapter afterwards. If you think that such situation would be natural and okay, I think it is no use to discuss any further.

[Drake]

While people were warned GZ was "only a prologue", I really doubt people were expecting only a 1-2h prologue.

No, people where pretty much warned it would be short well before it came out, By a whole host of gaming news outlets at that, so I cant see how they would be under any illusion it was a full game.

Again vote with your cash, if you don't think its worth it then simply don't buy it.

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Drake

No, people where pretty much warned it would be short well before it came out, By a whole host of gaming news outlets at that, so I cant see how they would be under any illusion it was a full game.

Again vote with your cash, if you don't think its worth it then simply don't buy it.

Exactly, even Kojima said it was completeable in less than 30mins I believe.

Either way, it was a amazing "demo" in my opinion.

Glad I only had to spend 10$ on it and sent it back in for Ninja Gaiden Yaiba. I'll be buying it full price on PC when that time comes tho.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Drake

No, people where pretty much warned it would be short well before it came out, By a whole host of gaming news outlets at that, so I cant see how they would be under any illusion it was a full game.

People were warned -1 month- prior the game release. And that's involving only a small core of the gaming news outlet if you ask me. While I did expect it, I can't say for non english non japanese players. For instance, a lot of french speaking players weren't expecting it, and that's not really their fault, unless you tell me they have to look for information that isn't massively relied in their language.
As far as I know, Konami never was the one warning players the game would be "hell short". Kojima kept saying he wanted players to have an early experience of MGS5, but did he really make such implication it was like having MGS2 tanker alone?

Again vote with your cash, if you don't think its worth it then simply don't buy it, and hope its tacked on to The Phantom Pain. Since as you've said it doesn't contain any useful story related content, right ?

This discussion is getting in circle, but while it is only a short term issue for those who don't want to buy it, the real problem at hand is how games will be handled if it comes to pass.
If a huge franchise like MGS5 can get away with it, it could be just be the norm. It is the same with the early debut of DLC leading to even more of them nowadays.

And when people do find it normal and claim it worth the money, of course it upsets the other part of the fanbase, exactly because of the obvious consequences it could lead to.

[Kyero Fox]

If it leads to more like Ground Zeros and Case Zero? I'm done with that. If it leads to half assed attempts you bet your ass I won't even bother picking said thing up for rent.

It's only a cash in when they don't say it's super short. As it is, it's something for die hard Metal Gear fans as myself to support and enjoy, and boy did I freakin enjoy it.

Well I think this discussion has gone on long enough how ever. So if everyone would be so kind as to talk about the game itself and not the price that'd be greaaaat~ -sips coffee- (It was coffee he was drinking...right?)