Character discussion - Makoto

[fieryshadowcard]

Originally Posted by Ultima_Rasengan05

chances of Makoto finding out about what Taisuke did could be high (they are friends after all and Kotonoha still sees Makoto as her boyfriend), depending on how the events of episode 9 will affect episode 10.
But Makoto realizing that all that he has done was just hurting everyone around him is low...he's too stupid to realize of that kind of thing.
I believe the only person(s) that could make him realize that he's just hurting everyone is either Kotonoha or Sekai...other than that, he's too clueless on whats going on around him.

Clueless isn't exactly the best word. Indifferent, self-involved, and quite a few other particularly negative and irredeemable words are much more accurate. It's just not possible to be a living, breathing human being who interacts with others and not have a single clue about basic emotions and reactions from others. Understanding the more intricate feelings of the opposite sex isn't exactly the easiest thing, but you can always understand some things.

Sekai is very honest with her feelings and opinions on situations. Up till now, even if you could argue that Makoto's early-on communication issues with Kotonoha were based on her not being direct, it's hard to do that when:

Sekai: We can't be doing this.
Makoto: You like it, don't you? *grope* What's gotten into you? [translation: Shut up and let me touch you. Why can't you just accept being my booty call?]
Sekai: If we're going to continue, we should at least tell Katsura.
Makoto: But she'll get mad. *sneaks a kiss* [translation: I'm not concerned with if it hurts her. I'm concerned with her getting mad and all the other stuff that would ruin my reputation in this school. Never mind that I deserve it. Anyway, where were we...?]
Sekai: That's obvious, isn't it?

Some time later...

Sekai: I guess we can't tell her, after all...
Makoto: See? That's why... [translation: Safe! More consequence-free sex for me!]

His entire thought process is geared towards getting what he wants without dealing with the problems. He might be clueless about the more intricate feelings that go on in a girl's head, but he's not clueless about basic concepts of right and wrong, and he's definitely not clueless about what it means to use and manipulate people. He's completely turned off to Kotonoha because he can't control her with sexual contact, but Sekai responds and can be manipulated with a few soft whispers, some groping, and a kiss to seal the deal.

I'll be able to make a more up-to-date analysis on Makoto's character when Conclave releases more episodes (they're the ones I follow), but I'm sure that even though I don't know about the more recent incidents in the more recent episodes, I've got Makoto pegged.

[asaqe]

Thats what I like about him, while the rest of the harem guys weep away at being virgins for the rest of their lives. He is laughing all the way to the bed...

[fieryshadowcard]

I could understand that thought process if he were a bit more than 1-dimensional, but he's not. Characters like Kentaro Oe and Ayasaki Hayate can get everything they want without being douches. As a dark character, he's still quite weak, especially when there are similar characters like Light who are considerably more complex than him (Light is much more manipulative and self-involved, and if he wanted to, he could do it much better than Makoto. I'm not even that big a fan of Light, and I don't find him overly complex, but he's much more engaging than this guy... and that's not because he carries a book of death with him.)

I'll await the day when an asshole harem lead shows up, and I "love to hate" him. But Makoto... I just hate him. Nothing more than that. Fails as a human being, and as an antagonist. As for the whiny and wimpy ones... hey, Keitarou will get his someday... we just won't see it in anime or manga form.

[Darklightz]

Hey Keitarou gets laid plenty of times!....although not in the regular publications...Ahem...

To better understand Makoto,you need to stop thinking of School Days as your average harem anime. It's not about lots of girls having fun adventure until the last episode when he chooses wich one he likes. No we're way beyond that, It's all about getting what he wants and he wants booty!

One part of my hatred towards Makoto is quite simply jealousy. The guy has nothing special yet girls line up to give him their virginity! What he did with Otome just blew my mind! "I have this relationship thing with Sekai and I'm technically still Kotonoha's boyfriend, but I don't mind banging you." Even Otome agreed it was best this way

[Zeira]

Originally Posted by Darklightz

"I have this relationship thing with Sekai and I'm technically still Kotonoha's boyfriend, but I don't mind banging you."

I love the way you phrased that, it is perfect.

I also love fieryshadowcard's analysis of Makoto. I have been getting way to fed up with people shrugging it off as. "Well Makoto just doesn't undertand whats going on. he is oblivious to it.. and such."

[Alorin]

Perhaps the main question behind School Days is why exactly do all these girls flock to Makoto like he's some sort of Cassanova or Don Juan? He has no redeemable qualities, is not rich, or good in sports, not particularly smart nor particularly great in the looks department, and certainly not an expert in seducing women.

For all the guys who sit and watch Makoto and wonder why their lives can't be like his, with girls spreading their legs left and right, just remember that this is anime. The impossible becomes possible.

[alphabetdude]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Well from what I heard , Makoto is considered to be " handsome '' by most of the girls. which I find funny as he looks like an average male harem lead.

It may be an anime but in real life there are MAKOTOS running around who cheat and get what they want. I know loads of dudes like him except they dress better and know what to say .

[Chichi]

This may have been mentioned earlier on so I apologize in advance.

Spoiler for Death Note plot spoilers:

I think it's interesting to note that the primary source for the hatred of Makoto lies more with his overall demeanor than his actual actions. Sure, the actions are unforgivable but what personally annoys me more is how hapless and ignorant he is. As a comparison, someone like Yagami Light from Death Note used and abused people as well, admittedly for different purposes and scale, though his sentiments were effectively the same (especially to the girls he involved himself with). Despite that, due to Light's innate calculative persona (almost to the point of being a badass), viewers warmed to him. Furthermore, while I acknowledge that Makoto is meant to be handsome in the eyes of the other characters, for the viewers he looks typically like any nerdy male lead in a harem show. That alone makes his actions all the more outlandish, or fake. Had he looked more like a bishonen character, somehow I'd hate him less.

I have decided to stop watching the show for this very reason. Episode 9 sealed the deal. The other characters aren't particularly interesting or new, as stated previously, and Makoto is the catalyst for why anything happens (usually for the worse). Given that I dislike the character anyway, for the reasons I mentioned, I cannot get past this, nor do I particularly know why this show is so popular. In contrast, comparatively Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai provides the same vibe from the female cast later on in the series, only substantially better. School Days, for me, went rock bottom after I found out it wasn't a typical harem show, and became something of an oddity that surpasses fiction (even though it is!)

[Echoes]

Interesting post, I'll try to add something constructive to the discussion. The comparison with Light brings forth an important aspect I hadn't put too much thought into earlier. That is, why Makoto ticks me off much more than generic "evil" characters. You are correct, there's a lot of added annoyance given his ignorant and hapless attitude. Having watched Death Note twice, I would like to go slightly off-topic and expand the Light/Makoto comparison.

Spoiler for Important Death Note plot spoilers.:

In addition to being a genius and brining entertainment though his intricate plots, Light originally wasn't evil. He used a weapon he could have used for personal gain only, to (through his eyes) improve the world. He lost his sanity along the way and become a power-hungry psychopath, but I think a lot of people can identify with his desires, with some people even going as far as to say the ends justify the means. Light had a much more innocent character pre-Death Note (viewers got to witness the immense difference when he gave up ownership.)

Makoto is just a careless, uninteresting brat. He's not a person in special circumstances, he's not bitter because he experienced personal tragedy or anything of the sort. He's just a guy who'll do things most of us find despicable, as long as he benefits. He'll shamelessly exploits all the women in the series without regret, or even consideration. His character is shallow, he exists to be hated, not explored.

I think it's an interesting show, and the absence of things typically harem makes it a different experience, but not necessarily in a bad way. It has caught my attention, and at the very least, I want to see how it ends.

[Chichi]

In that regard, I absolutely agree. In hindsight, perhaps Yagami Light is not the best comparison, since as you mentioned, the two characters are completely different in both persona, development and circumstance (not to mention character design/aesthetic).

I've always had a tendency to warm to the main lead, regardless of genre. I guess this is why I find it hard to watch School Days because Makoto, being the lead, is so dismal to watch. That being said, I did feel compelled to continue watching, though the recent events in Episode 9 were too much to handle.

[Ohyeah4Xx]

ok i have watched 9 episodes so far:

The first episode: i cheered for makoto

The second episode: I still cheered for makoto

The 3rd-9th: i didn't like him at all

Reasons:
1. hes cheating with kotonoha
2. he demands sexual stuff
3. Hes immature
4. doesn't care about his gf
5. to supid to actually take advice from sekai even though he has a gf.

I dislike him and its rare that i really dislike a character.....but makoto has gone to far!

[Echoes]

Originally Posted by Ohyeah4Xx

The first episode: i cheered for makoto

The second episode: I still cheered for makoto

The 3rd-9th: i didn't like him at all

Pretty much how I feel as well, though I actually dislike character rather frequently, I rarely find them as despicable as Makoto.

[KholdStare]

1st episode: I cheered for Makoto
2nd episode: I think it's a piece of shit
3rd-7th episodes: I semi-forgive him because I do realize that he's inexperienced and find ways to justify his actions. I supported his relationship with Sekai.
8th episode: Makoto is pushing it a bit, especially with his promises and still wanting Kotonoha for sex.
9th episode: I completely gave up on him after what happened.

[Darklord_bg]

Well, if we could break-down Makoto episode-wise I think it goes like this. Every episode adds additional knowledge about his character.

Ep. 1: Typical harem lead - i.e. a wuss
Ep. 2: Pervert
Ep 3-4: Clueless and weak-willed
Ep 5: Cheater
Ep 6: Coward and a jerk
Ep 7: Mindless sex maniac
Ep 8: Inspirational (the only episode he made a slightly positive impression)
Ep 9: I don't know what to make of his character anymore. Too 1-dimensional and poorly developed by the producers. Not believable as a human.

It's not that I hate Makoto, it's just that I don't care about him at all(which is actually worse than hate). I do not give a damn about what happens to him anymore.

[vblaze101]

Yes, episode 8. It shed some interesting light on Mokoto's character. He IS capable of being understanding and considerate. However, how that Makoto in the flashback and the thoughtless lecher in the present connect, I absolutely have no idea . To, me that flashback was just an excuse to give Setsuna a reason for liking him.

I'm also leaning toward the impression that the production staff didn't put much thought imto Makoto's development. Although he's the "lead," it may quite likely be that to the production staff, the key to the story is the various female characters, with Makoto simply serving as a stimulus or unifying plot tool.

I remember back when I was in high school, a number of guys acted as thoughtless and lecherous as Makoto, and in the process, they were shallow, weren't in the least bit considerate, and only could grasp what was "tangible." Yet, as earlier stated, episode 8 presents a contradiction. I guess since the show isn't over, what we're presented with about him in the future will be very crucial to forming a final opinion on his character.

[Skyfall]

Well, him being the male lead does not necessarily mean he is the one that is supposed to move the plot around. It simply indicates he is the male character with most screentime/importance (the one whom the show is following) in the overall scheme of things. As for his personality not connecting to what it seemingly was in the past ... he is simply hormone driven teenager who loses what ever little rational thinking he might have the second he is presented with something sexual in front of him. Which happens all the time lately It is not that he is incapable of being considerate,his mind is simply located beneath his waist, and that part seems to have taken over lately. He simply can not see further than things in front of him, and even then he has a tendency to ignore a situation if he happens to be directly responsible for it

[AvatarST]

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=141

This changed my mind about Makoto a lot. I'm not so sure we can excuse him because of "stupidity/cluelessness" that easily, to be honest.

[KholdStare]

Well normal people think before they act, especially when it comes to something like dating and sex. Whenver he sees someone who's "hot," he takes his mind completely off his "current girlfriend" which is really unacceptable.

[sikvod00]

Originally Posted by Alorin

Perhaps the main question behind School Days is why exactly do all these girls flock to Makoto like he's some sort of Cassanova or Don Juan? He has no redeemable qualities, is not rich, or good in sports, not particularly smart nor particularly great in the looks department, and certainly not an expert in seducing women.

It's a real head scratcher, ain't it?
Back when I was in highschool, the majority of guys who were popular with girls and also jerks\a-holes at least had something positive going for them: looks, humor, charm, intelligence, confidence, jockishness (making up words now), or a combination of these traits. You know, something to slightly offset their terrible treatment of women. Makoto has nothing to offer.

What's worse is that he was given no real distinguising characteristic or development of his own. Aside from his repugnant behavior towards the opposite sex, there is nothing remotely interesting about him. I mean, Katsura is the terribly cute, mild-mannered, rich, big-chested girl with the sweet little sister who bugs her about having a boyfriend. Sekai is the outgoing, nosy, assertive chick. We even get to see her at her job. These little slice-of-life scenes just add something to that character to make them more realistic and less one-dimensional.

Like someone else already mentioned, Makoto seems to exist only to generate hatred. He doesn't need to have any sort of personal life or side story outside of his interactions with the girls.

Originally Posted by Alorin

For all the guys who sit and watch Makoto and wonder why their lives can't be like his, with girls spreading their legs left and right, just remember that this is anime. The impossible becomes possible.

Ah, this helped to stop the head scratching. Thanks.

[asaqe]

Ah well...at least he proves some guys in anime can get laid with the opposite sex.