Chapter 456 discussion (spoilers)

[Master Mold]

Originally Posted by Undertaker

The difference here is that BB isn't try to beat ONE guy, He's try to conquer the world and and believe with Ace's power he can definitely accomplish that feat.

So, does that put Ace above BB just cuz Ace can definitely accomplish BB goal.

Moria is different story. He went up against ONE person, lost, then say that he would not have lost if he had Oz. That put Oz at least the same level as Moria if not stronger physically.

Well I don't really know how Moria lost, it could have been a war between two Pirate crews.

We need more info.

But the biggest indication is that Brook already confirms that Moria has trouble controling shadows whose original body that is stronger than him and we have shown Sanji shadow directly go against the order. Hell, I personally think Ryuuma could disobey Moria if he wanted to, only something is holding him back [Maybe he want to stay alive?], he seem to lack the "yes master" attitude compare to other zombies.

Well, whats in bold is a point that proves Moria is strong.

Well Ryuuma was comanded by Hogbeck to attack the Ussop, and the others.

Time will tell.

[RRavage]

there are some bosses and mid-bosses..like:

Arlong (made Luffy pissed talking about nami as her worthless slave-mapmaker)
Crocodile (poisoned Luffy, talking about friendship with powerless people are useless)
Lucci (nearly killed Luffy and was talking about slaughtering his entire crew with him)

and these are midbosses:
Kuro (4-5 eposides and owned by a single attack)
Foxy (I dont know if its an eposide or a filler, but this arc looked like a huge funny filler, so foxy was not a threat)
bellamy (again owned by a single punch,not even a rubber fruit move)

I dont think they can put Moria into these midboss class, since he's a shichibukai and looks powerless for that title yet, looks like he just has a massive army of zombies only.He probably have some skills to fight, and it'll probably because of something he'll say, like "being pirate king" this can ring a bell in Luffy's head while trapped in Oz...

[Eisdrache]

Oz dont have to be stronger than Moria. Since I cant think of any better way to explain it I will do it with mathematics ><
Take Kaidou as 1, then Moria is something below like 0.8 Now if Oz is emm lets say 0.7 then Moria and Oz together are still stronger than Kaidou. Its very simplified but in the end even if the both dont have the strength to beat him alone together it should be possible.
There isnt something like a 100% winning chance when going against a so powerful enemy.

[airsBlue]

Take Kaidou as 1, then Moria is something below like 0.8 Now if Oz is emm lets say 0.7 then Moria and Oz together are still stronger than Kaidou. Its very simplified but in the end even if the both dont have the strength to beat him alone together it should be possible.

but this assuming that kidou is alone, and he is not ... how about if he had someone with 0.5, then they will have draw but since kaidou is 1 he can defeat the first one then the second one by sacrificing his crew member ...

also when Oz was introduced, he looked stronger and have more strength than moria ... also moria is lazy while Oz seems to be very active one ...

but how about this, the reason why Moria is sure that both samurai Ryuuma and Oz won't go against him is because that he can cancel his shadow technique on them and so they will both become soulless bodies again ..

[iKumdo]

Originally Posted by airsBlue

but this assuming that kidou is alone, and he is not ... how about if he had someone with 0.5, then they will have draw but since kaidou is 1 he can defeat the first one then the second one by sacrificing his crew member ...

also when Oz was introduced, he looked stronger and have more strength than moria ... also moria is lazy while Oz seems to be very active one ...

but how about this, the reason why Moria is sure that both samurai Ryuuma and Oz won't go against him is because that he can cancel his shadow technique on them and so they will both become soulless bodies again ..

You're basing your argument based on physical appearances? Oz looks stronger, so he must be?

I don't know who's stronger, but Eisdrache does bring up an obvious point. I'm surprised no one else saw that.

[airsBlue]

You're basing your argument based on physical appearances? Oz looks stronger, so he must be?

i am basing it on the conversation that they had while walking toward OZ, after Moria took luffy's shadow...

[Kwt]

Question , the skeleton guy say to Franky and nico Robin that if the owner Body died that mean the shadow on the Zombie body will faint away as well so if that skeleton fight with that summri and lose that mean he lost hes soul + shadow ?