Shounen heroes vs Female opponents

[ahelo]

Touma is good example but I don't like him. He's way too preachy for his own good.

In reality though, when you see a guy hit a girl, you'd probably hit the guy for hitting the girl. Chivalry does not oppress women rights at least where I live, and it does not mean we men think women are weaker but rather its our duty to protect them.

Also the hitting a girl thing is double edged sword. When you hit a girl people would go "WTF" and when a girl hits you people would go "Haha your so weak". There's no reaally right answer to this nd if you want one, then go change society.

[Morisato]

Originally Posted by ahelo

Touma is good example but I don't like him. He's way too preachy for his own good.

In reality though, when you see a guy hit a girl, you'd probably hit the guy for hitting the girl. Chivalry does not oppress women rights at least where I live, and it does not mean we men think women are weaker but rather its our duty to protect them.

Also the hitting a girl thing is double edged sword. When you hit a girl people would go "WTF" and when a girl hits you people would go "Haha your so weak". There's no reaally right answer to this nd if you want one, then go change society.

Hahaha, that's so true.

If you hit a girl, the manly men will start raging regardless of who started it and try to beat you up.
If you don't hit back and let the girl beat you up, the manly men will call you a pussy for losing to a girl.

It kinda makes you wonder who the real sexists are. The one that fights a girl (gender equality) or the white knights that defend a girl at any cost and laugh at people being beat by a girl. The white knights will call the former wife beaters and the "wife beaters" will call the white knights old fashioned and outdated. Cause according to the white knights, women should stay in the kitchen, cook, clean, raise children, no education, and don't get to vote.

I think the biggest problem is mostly the manly men a.k.a. the white knights. They're living hypocrites. Most of them only defend the girl if she's cute/hot and only want some "favors" for saving them.

I don't know where the feminists stand in all this though.

[fanty]

When it comes to real-life scenarios, you really shouldn't be hitting anyone at all, be they male or female. (Except for self defence, maybe.)

And feminists think that somebody's maleness or femaleness should not be the deciding factor of whether you hit them or not. Or at least that's what I think, and I'm a feminist through and through.

[Guernsey]

Originally Posted by Morisato

Hahaha, that's so true.

If you hit a girl, the manly men will start raging regardless of who started it and try to beat you up.
If you don't hit back and let the girl beat you up, the manly men will call you a pussy for losing to a girl.

It kinda makes you wonder who the real sexists are. The one that fights a girl (gender equality) or the white knights that defend a girl at any cost and laugh at people being beat by a girl. The white knights will call the former wife beaters and the "wife beaters" will call the white knights old fashioned and outdated. Cause according to the white knights, women should stay in the kitchen, cook, clean, raise children, no education, and don't get to vote.

I think the biggest problem is mostly the manly men a.k.a. the white knights. They're living hypocrites. Most of them only defend the girl if she's cute/hot and only want some "favors" for saving them.

Unfortunately, I am one of them and that is how I was raised. Damn, I feel like a villain now but whenever I see a guy hit a girl, those feelings arouse in me and I really want to beat the guy up back. I am not a 'manly man' or one of those 'white knights' you speak of at all but sadly, this how most of us act and how our fathers taught us to act. That is not to say that it is alright but that is mostly why I feel that way. I feel like a bad guy now.

[Darklord_bg]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

Unfortunately, I am one of them and that is how I was raised. Damn, I feel like a villain now but whenever I see a guy hit a girl, those feelings arouse in me and I really want to beat the guy up back. I am not a 'manly man' or one of those 'white knights' you speak of at all but sadly, this how most of us act and how our fathers taught us to act. That is not to say that it is alright but that is mostly why I feel that way. I feel like a bad guy now.

You know, that's how I was raised too...but I always felt like it was wrong - like I never understood why I had to give girls preferential treatment. I suppose it's an old tradition from days long past, since women are generally more fragile but in this day and age when violence is almost always off limits, I do not see what the issue is.

That's why when I see it in anime I get pretty upset as well, especially since girls are often as strong as or even stronger than guys - why do they still get the preferential treatment. True equality is a long way off.

[Myname]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

Unfortunately, I am one of them and that is how I was raised. Damn, I feel like a villain now but whenever I see a guy hit a girl, those feelings arouse in me and I really want to beat the guy up back. I am not a 'manly man' or one of those 'white knights' you speak of at all but sadly, this how most of us act and how our fathers taught us to act. That is not to say that it is alright but that is mostly why I feel that way. I feel like a bad guy now.

Originally Posted by Darklord_bg

You know, that's how I was raised too...but I always felt like it was wrong - like I never understood why I had to give girls preferential treatment. I suppose it's an old tradition from days long past, since women are generally more fragile but in this day and age when violence is almost always off limits, I do not see what the issue is.

That's why when I see it in anime I get pretty upset as well, especially since girls are often as strong as or even stronger than guys - why do they still get the preferential treatment. True equality is a long way off.

Originally Posted by Morisato

Cause according to the white knights, women should stay in the kitchen, cook, clean, raise children, no education, and don't get to vote.

Good point. Chivalry existed back in the day when women had limited rights and freedom. But things have changed in modern times such as the voting, working, education, etc. feminists want even more equal rights but don't want to give up their current privleges.

Originally Posted by fanty

When it comes to real-life scenarios, you really shouldn't be hitting anyone at all, be they male or female. (Except for self defence, maybe.

Technically speaking, you're right. But rarely will anyone intervene in a man-to-man fight because... men fight, they go to war, they like guns and cars, etc. Even if it's self-defense, people lose all sense of reason if they see a man hit a woman. They're more likely to pin the blame on the man for assault. I think people are more likely to help a woman being beat up than a man being beat up given that in both scenarios, it's a one-sided match.

If a woman picks a fight with you and there are people around, you're better of running away cause it's not gonna end well for you (male).

[Morisato]

Originally Posted by Guernsey

Unfortunately, I am one of them and that is how I was raised. Damn, I feel like a villain now but whenever I see a guy hit a girl, those feelings arouse in me and I really want to beat the guy up back. I am not a 'manly man' or one of those 'white knights' you speak of at all but sadly, this how most of us act and how our fathers taught us to act. That is not to say that it is alright but that is mostly why I feel that way. I feel like a bad guy now.

It's fine if you aren't biased and help the girl even though she started it. If you beat up the guy just cause he decided to defend himself well... Hopefully you won't pass it on to your children and make them feel like a villain. It's a step in the right direction.

[BakaOnna]

Picked the first option. Equality to all, whether they're male, female, old, young. Because if they deserve to be punched in the face, then they should be punched in the face.

Besides the Index series as a whole (where basically all the main male characters would hit a girl and fight one on equal terms when and if the situation arises), both FMA series, but more so in Brotherhood, also didn't have a distinct gender boundary. It didn't have that issue that issue of splitting genders when it comes to fights. Female characters fight male characters and vise versa. In fact, a number of the female characters in FMA could kick the male characters' asses. But I guess part of it has to do with the author being female as well.

Which brings up another point in this. How do female writers deal with this issue? Pandora Hearts was already mentioned in the thread and that's written by a female mangaka. And I've read that Kishimoto had said he didn't like writing female characters since he didn't think he could write them well, which could explain why a lot of the time, female characters would fight female characters.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

Picked the first option. Equality to all, whether they're male, female, old, young. Because if they deserve to be punched in the face, then they should be punched in the face.

Besides the Index series as a whole (where basically all the main male characters would hit a girl and fight one on equal terms when and if the situation arises), both FMA series, but more so in Brotherhood, also didn't have a distinct gender boundary. It didn't have that issue that issue of splitting genders when it comes to fights. Female characters fight male characters and vise versa. In fact, a number of the female characters in FMA could kick the male characters' asses. But I guess part of it has to do with the author being female as well.

Which brings up another point in this. How do female writers deal with this issue? Pandora Hearts was already mentioned in the thread and that's written by a female mangaka. And I've read that Kishimoto had said he didn't like writing female characters since he didn't think he could write them well, which could explain why a lot of the time, female characters would fight female characters.

Other than the Author of Pandora Hearts and FMA, the only two shounen stories that I know are written by a female author is D.Gray-man and Sekirei. One of them is a Heavy Male Populated series while the other is a Heavy Female Populated series.

I'm sure Seikirei is pretty much entirely female vs female, and DGM has so little female characters that they're hardly seen fighting.

[BakaOnna]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Other than the Author of Pandora Hearts and FMA, the only two shounen stories that I know are written by a female author is D.Gray-man and Sekirei. One of them is a Heavy Male Populated series while the other is a Heavy Female Populated series.

I'm sure Seikirei is pretty much entirely female vs female, and DGM has so little female characters that they're hardly seen fighting.

There's also the author for Reborn. But much like D.Gray-man, it's way more male populated and the female characters don't seem to do too much. Plus I didn't read too far into it so I don't know how strong/useful Chrome, the sole female character in the group, is compared to the rest of main male cast.

[Myname]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

There's also the author for Reborn. But much like D.Gray-man, it's way more male populated and the female characters don't seem to do too much. Plus I didn't read too far into it so I don't know how strong/useful Chrome, the sole female character in the group, is compared to the rest of main male cast.

Chrome is basically fodder. She only serves as a vessel for Mukuro (her owner) to possess. She can't do anything by herself besides being a damsel in distress.

D.Gray-Man and Reborn both being by female mangaka, it's no surprise that the majority of the fanbase are females fangasming over the male characters (and the yaoi fanfiction that goes on).

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I could add another dimension to this issue. What if the evil guy is a kid?
It might be rare but there are have been quite a few cases in anime where the evil guy is nothing more than a kid. Would you think it'd be fine if the hero beated him as fiercely as he would do with a grown up man in this case?

Most people would find disturbing to see such a scene. If the hero is meant to be heroic and chivalrous then you would expect him to treat a kid with particular regard, despite the crimes he committed. In a minor degree this apply to women. It's not rational, but heroes rarely are.

Heheh, now make that a little girl villain. Like Manah in Drakengard or Catherine from Daiteikoku (or that child emperor from Shangri-La, though I didn't watch it completely to know more about her). Though I think most of the time, the "going easy" part against villains like these little girls was supposed to be justified when it's revealed that they were a product of a miserable tragedy themselves, so the hero opted to redeem them instead. Though I would still want them to answer for their crimes. I'm all for bitch-slapping bitches though.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Heheh, now make that a little girl villain. Like Manah in Drakengard or Catherine from Daiteikoku (or that child emperor from Shangri-La, though I didn't watch it completely to know more about her). Though I think most of the time, the "going easy" part against villains like these little girls was supposed to be justified when it's revealed that they were a product of a miserable tragedy themselves, so the hero opted to redeem them instead. Though I would still want them to answer for their crimes. I'm all for bitch-slapping bitches though.

Yeah Little girls and lolis seem to get away with a lot of things, even the most harden of heroes would find it hard to hit a villain little girl physically... Well, most of them anyway...

[ahelo]

Originally Posted by Myname

Chrome is basically fodder. She only serves as a vessel for Mukuro (her owner) to possess. She can't do anything by herself besides being a damsel in distress.

D.Gray-Man and Reborn both being by female mangaka, it's no surprise that the majority of the fanbase are females fangasming over the male characters (and the yaoi fanfiction that goes on).

No offense, even though I like Reborn, its a pretty sexist series. Every girl there is a damsel in distress, and the way they are treated is definitely like women are weaker. And this comes from a female mangaka ).

I wouldn't say the same for D. Grayman though.

[Morisato]

Originally Posted by ahelo

No offense, even though I like Reborn, its a pretty sexist series. Every girl there is a damsel in distress, and the way they are treated is definitely like women are weaker. And this comes from a female mangaka ).

I wouldn't say the same for D. Grayman though.

Well the only notable females in D.Gray-Man are Lenalee, Road, and Miranda. Miranda is a damsel. Road's an evil bitch and I haven't seen her in a serious fight before. Lenalee is... obsessed with Allen... her mental state is unstable if Allen isn't with her (she just cries and cries until Allen comes back).

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Morisato

Well the only notable females in D.Gray-Man are Lenalee, Road, and Miranda. Miranda is a damsel. Road's an evil bitch and I haven't seen her in a serious fight before. Lenalee is... obsessed with Allen... her mental state is unstable if Allen isn't with her (she just cries and cries until Allen comes back).

And this is why we don't talk about mangas that we don't read now do we?

Miranda is a pretty gutsy character when push comes to shove, though she is delegated to the female combat support character but even then she's never a liability.

Road has a soft spot for Allen despite her sadistic side, and she holds a very strong importance among the villains plotwise, her fight with Lavi shows how dangerous she can be.

Lenalee is the go to girl for this series; she has everything- the looks, the personality, and she had taken part in some of the most severe fighting (Lv 3 and Lv 4) while coming out on top without the need for someone to relief her.

[FateAnomaly]

The thing is shonen heroes knows that they can take a million blows from female opponents and still come out victorious. All they need is to deliver 1 good hit from their "sure kill technique" and they will win. How many shounen heroes has been killed by female opponents anyway.

[Darklord_bg]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

How many shounen heroes has been killed.

I think you can leave the question as just that, and still the number will be extremely small. People rarely die in shounen. It's kind of off-topic, I know, but I could not help but notice.

[Myname]

Originally Posted by FateAnomaly

The thing is shonen heroes knows that they can take a million blows from female opponents and still come out victorious. All they need is to deliver 1 good hit from their "sure kill technique" and they will win. How many shounen heroes has been killed by female opponents anyway.

Well, that applies to male opponents as well (taking massive beatings and one-shotting through willpower and POWER OF FRIENDSHIP) so that's kind of moot.

[ahelo]

Originally Posted by Morisato

Well the only notable females in D.Gray-Man are Lenalee, Road, and Miranda. Miranda is a damsel. Road's an evil bitch and I haven't seen her in a serious fight before. Lenalee is... obsessed with Allen... her mental state is unstable if Allen isn't with her (she just cries and cries until Allen comes back).

Well at least they're doing something. The only thing the girls did in Reborn was cook and wait for the guys to come back from their fights. They even tried to justify this in one episode. Oh yeah, they also whine and cry.