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marvelB · 2016-09-21, 03:28

Welcome to the weekly manga discussion thread for One Piece.

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Remember that the manga is licensed, do not post significant parts of the chapter. This includes images, scripts and direct translations of the manga. Summaries are OK, crops of pictures are OK (only if you need to illustrate your point) but this is it.

It's time! Credit goes to AP's Sandman and YonkouProductions for the spoiler info:

-Chapter title is "Iron Mask". Splash page features Chopper eating honey with various "bears" (including Bepo, the Hiking Bear from Drum, Bearsy from Thriller Bark, and.... yes, even Bartholomew Kuma, lol).

-Yonji reveals some secrets of the Germa Kingdom to Sanji. It was, originally, a country of science. In fact, Judge once worked together with Dr. Vegapunk as illegal researchers! However, Vegapunk was eventually found by the WG and arrested once he discovered the "blueprint of life". Soon afterwards, the WG decided to hire Vegapunk's research team for their own purposes, but Judge alone escaped from their clutches and continued his research independently.

-We then learn that Germa soldiers in the tubes are indeed clones! More precisely, they're clones of elite soldiers. They're programmed to be loyal to their boss, and do not fear death. Soon, Ichiji and Niji appear in the lab, and taunt Sanji some more. Sanji, who's still enraged by his brother's treatment of the chef Cosette, assaults Niji! He kicks his older brother's face, but oddly.... the attack seems to have no effect at all. Niji then uses some stealthy maneuver where he suddenly sneaks behind Sanji, and takes him down with an electrical attack!

-Niji tells his younger brother that he's going to make their hierarchy clear. A flashback then begins where all 5 of the Vinsmoke siblings are gathered in front of Judge, who calls them his masterpieces. He says that they're the results of advanced research, and are existences who have surpassed human beings. However, as they're being trained, Judge notices that Sanji alone is unable to keep up with his harsh regimen. As he has one of his scientists examine the children, the scientist reports that Sanji's brothers have all developed strong exoskeletons, but Sanji alone is no different from the average human. This news greatly disappoints Judge, who considers his third son a failure....

-Judge later tells his men that Sanji was caught in a shipwreck. However, the reality of the situation is that the boy was imprisoned within the kingdom's dungeon, and was forced to wear an iron mask. He's not even able to eat, nor ask for help. Judge renounces Sanji's existence. Meanwhile, the imprisoned boy can do naught but shed tears and repeatedly ask his father for forgiveness.......

WyrdMonger · 2016-09-21, 03:37

I knew it. The five are actually clones created from Judge's blood, literally. But there is the possibility, that some foreign dna was included, which would explain Reiju's gender. Or perhaps she's actually a trap.

marvelB · 2016-09-21, 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TemhotaTech

I knew it. The five are actually clones created from Judge's blood, literally. But there is the possibility, that some foreign dna was included, which would explain Reiju's gender. Or perhaps she's actually a trap.

I dunno, the impression I had was that the generic Germa grunts were clones, while Judge's kids are indeed his own, but just had their bodies modified by scientists or something. Sort of Germa's own take on cyborgs/Pacifistas, in a sense.

Still, I do find it very interesting indeed that Judge is related to Vegapunk. That probably also means he has a connection to Caesar, as well....

WyrdMonger · 2016-09-21, 04:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelB

Still, I do find it very interesting indeed that Judge is related to Vegapunk. That probably also means he has a connection to Caesar, as well....

I just thought of Vegapunk, Caesar, and Judge as high school students, displaying their diabolic creations to their teachers.

Vegapunk - cyborg death army
Caesar - gas that turns your organs to stone.
Judge - remorseless clones that murder the innocent

Btw, is there any mentioned of female clones?
Those woman we saw a few chapters back did not like Sanji's insult to Judge.
I do also consider they could be slaves the Vinsmoke have bought or kidnapped girls who've been brainwashed.

~Yami~ · 2016-09-21, 06:08

This series just hit another level of darkness and despair
Who would never think that Sanji is not an ordinary human? now I'm afraid that Zoro is not normal as well

Ultragunner · 2016-09-21, 06:58

so that "weakling" of a son has become a young and relatively famous pirate who is now able to use both Kenbunshoku and Busoshoku Haki, F***u Vinsmoke!

And is it me or the those @ssholes know that they can't beat Sanji in a fair fight so they keep bringing up old man Zeff?

Trax · 2016-09-21, 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

This series just hit another level of darkness and despair
Who would never think that Sanji is not an ordinary human? now I'm afraid that Zoro is not normal as well

But he basically is an ordinary human, whatever genetic engineering they did failed on him.

Anyway, this chapter confirms that Reiju was the only one that actually showed concern for Sanji, but was going along with her brothers to prevent herself from being bullied along with him. And it seems like Sanji's fascination with cooking is related to his mother, I'm sure more about that will be revealed in time.

It sucks that Baratie is being used as leverage against him, would love to have seen him crush Niji.

DreGon45 · 2016-09-21, 08:47

Does anyone else find it kind of ironic that Sanji, a french based character got an iron mask? This of course following the three musketeers and the man in the iron mask. Now knowing Oda at this point that may have been his aim, but if it wasn't that's one hell of a coincidence. The three musketeers Ichiji, Niji, and Yonji, with Sanji being the man in the iron mask.

DreGon45 · 2016-09-21, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trax

But he basically is an ordinary human, whatever genetic engineering they did failed on him.

Anyway, this chapter confirms that Reiju was the only one that actually showed concern for Sanji, but was going along with her brothers to prevent herself from being bullied along with him. And it seems like Sanji's fascination with cooking is related to his mother, I'm sure more about that will be revealed in time.

It sucks that Baratie is being used as leverage against him, would love to have seen him crush Niji.

I don't think he's an ordinary human honestly. His strength is one thing to consider but isn't that far out of idea to think of considering what most normal well trained humans are capable of that haven't eaten devil fruits.
But the fact that he can ignite his legs with no known reason or explanation should hint at something.
Maybe he's shown no sign of progress like his brothers because as we've seen, sanji was a very tender and loving child and seemed like he had no will to be violent like his siblings or have any interests in his fathers wishes since he continued to cook for lesser people than him.
So he probably does have potential that he just chose not to tap into. I mean, he did some serious damage Ichiji. Granted he got back up, but considering he sent his older brother flying back the way he did should say something about Sanji's power.
He's a failed experiment by his fathers standards, but I don't think he's a complete failure.
I honestly believe he's similar to Gohan. A vast amount of untapped potential that he never wanted to use because he himself saw no reason to use it.

DreGon45 · 2016-09-21, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

so that "weakling" of a son has become a young and relatively famous pirate who is now able to use both Kenbunshoku and Busoshoku Haki, F***u Vinsmoke!

And is it me or the those @ssholes know that they can't beat Sanji in a fair fight so they keep bringing up old man Zeff?

Probably not that. I want to say it maybe the fact that the Germa as whole are preparing for some large scale battle/war. They NEED Sanji for this wedding. Even if they beat him near death, he still wouldn't willingly agree unless they had some other cards to play, like old man Zeff.
So even if they truly were afraid that he could beat them all, I honestly think its more of a leverage kid of deal to keep the wedding with Big Moms family moving forward.

khoa1708 · 2016-09-21, 09:31

i think sanji has that stronger exoskeleton thing too, we just don't know it yet

golgo13 · 2016-09-21, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Yami~

This series just hit another level of darkness and despair
Who would never think that Sanji is not an ordinary human? now I'm afraid that Zoro is not normal as well

It does seem like Sanji is an ordinary human, as the operation didn't work on him. His family certainly isn't.

It's a good point regarding the lineage of Zoro. I would be more comfortable with him coming from a "regular" family and that he is indeed the first to achieve this type of greatness from his family. So far Luffy, Sanji, Usopp all come from monster families while Nami, Chopper, Robin, Franky and Zoro learned from great mentors and personal dedication. Not to say there isn't personal dedication from the first three, however they have the blood. Not too much on Brooke's background.

Ramero · 2016-09-21, 11:18

If Zoro was there he can unleash the "stress" from Zoro vs Sanji on every arcs involving Zoro vs Sanji to all Germa family.

I start to think that is it only Sanji in Germa family that can use Haki?

Kanon · 2016-09-21, 11:27

Damn, Sanji's childhood was horrible. Only his sister seemed to treat him with a little bit of affection.

I can't fucking wait to see his brothers and his father get their asses handed to them.

itachi-san314 · 2016-09-21, 12:10

I called Germa being related to Vegapunk a while back. Like I said back then, I still think we will get at least an intro glimpse of him this arc. Now it looks even more likely since Oda is reminding everyone of him.

The homage references in this arc are through the roof at this point. In addition to the Alexandre Dumas references mentioned above, this is also straight out of the Star Wars prequels (not that George Lucas can be compared to Dumas lol...) but this is the same clone army plot device of Episode 2 and Oda's even got the order 66 (666) thing going on. I was going to bring up the 66 reference earlier, but it seemed dumb. Now I'm sure of it. Like Kishi, Oda must also be a Star Wars prequel junkie.

The Small One · 2016-09-21, 13:53

I didn't completely understand the relations in the flashback on the beginning of the chapter.
So Judge and Vegapunk were science buddies and were hunted by the WG. Does this mean, that at this time in the story, the Germa wern't royals yet? If they were, why would the WG hunt one of their own? But if they became royals later, for what reason?

So does Vegapunk himself comes from this kingdom?

I really wonder, what Judge needs Big Mom for. He is able to produce his own soldiers, so he should be able to reach his goals on his own.

ZGoten · 2016-09-21, 15:37

Oh how terrible the World Government must have found Vegapunk's discovery. Thank God they "arrested" him for it. This just reeks of bullcrap. I guess it's safe to say the WG has their own manufactured humans, and it wouldn't surprise me if they outclassed Germa's by leagues.

itachi-san314 · 2016-09-21, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

I didn't completely understand the relations in the flashback on the beginning of the chapter.
So Judge and Vegapunk were science buddies and were hunted by the WG. Does this mean, that at this time in the story, the Germa wern't royals yet? If they were, why would the WG hunt one of their own? But if they became royals later, for what reason?

I'm not entirely sure either, but I assume Judge was let off and not pursued because he was a noble. Also, Vegapunk is assuredly the better scientist, so the WG got what they needed without needing Judge anyway.

Quote:

I really wonder, what Judge needs Big Mom for. He is able to produce his own soldiers, so he should be able to reach his goals on his own.

Again not sure, but maybe he intends to sync up his soldiers with her Soul DF ability? I'm sure that the bond between Judge and Big Mom will not last so it will be interesting to see how they each intend to use the other.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZGoten

Oh how terrible the World Government must have found Vegapunk's discovery. Thank God they "arrested" him for it. This just reeks of bullcrap. I guess it's safe to say the WG has their own manufactured humans, and it wouldn't surprise me if they outclassed Germa's by leagues.

Well, that's basically the Pacifista army right? This Germa arc is the explanation for that. Vegapunk cloned Kuma's body and added some cyborg components and Kizuru's power to them. I'm sure that the Pacifista will be even more powerful the next time we see them though. Or there will be a more advanced version to be unveiled later.

marvelB · 2016-09-21, 16:28

Well, we've known for a while that Judge and Sanji's brothers are scumbags, so no need for me to comment further on that. At least Reiju's got some empathy for her little bro, though (even if she's forced to hide it). Also, speaking of all the talk about homages, the scene with Sanji feeding a rat made me think of Ratatouille (which, incidentally, is a movie centered around French chefs.... I kinda doubt that was a coincidence on Oda's part

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

I didn't completely understand the relations in the flashback on the beginning of the chapter.
So Judge and Vegapunk were science buddies and were hunted by the WG. Does this mean, that at this time in the story, the Germa wern't royals yet? If they were, why would the WG hunt one of their own? But if they became royals later, for what reason?

I'm pretty sure that Germa is a dynasty with centuries of history. The problem is that the research Judge was working on with Vegapunk was illegal. But chances are, the Germa's technological prowess is also the reason why the WG has been lenient with them so far.... after all, such advanced weaponry would be considered quite beneficial to just about any country's military, wouldn't you say? In that sense, it makes sense that the Vinsmokes would lend their services as a mercenaries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

So does Vegapunk himself comes from this kingdom?

No, we saw his homeland, remember? The place that Franky spent the timeskip upgrading himself? It's most likely that at the time, Vegapunk left his home to continue his research, began collaborating with other brilliant minds from around the world, and ended up getting caught under the WG's radar.

Actually, on that note.... remember the "Lineage Factor" that was mentioned this chapter? That was also mentioned around the end of the Punk Hazard arc. I believe Law said that the Lineage Factor was how Caesar was able to produce the SAD and Smiles.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

I really wonder, what Judge needs Big Mom for. He is able to produce his own soldiers, so he should be able to reach his goals on his own.

I mentioned this last chapter, but Judge would be virtually untouchable with one of the Yonkou supporting him. He probably figured that the WG won't always stay quiet about letting him continue his underground research (combined with his ambition to conquer North Blue), so he needs a powerful partner to guarantee they stay out of his hair. And, well..... what better partner than another one of the major world powers?

DreGon45 · 2016-09-21, 16:37

Wait lets rewind for a second.

Ok flash back to Punk Hazard. Remember when Sanji fought Vergo and Sanji had mentioned that his body was hard, almost like iron. Well speed forward to this volume and one of the Judges aids had mentioned all of their(the children) 'outer skeletons' have hardened.
The Germa Clones all look similar to Vergo. What if Vergo was one of the experiments? I mean I'm sure most people would argue that Vergo started using Haki when he had cracked sanji's femur, but lets also take into consideration that Vergo worked for Mingo. Both Mingo and Judge are huge in the underworld market from what we've been told thus far.
So if Vergo is in fact one of these Germa super soldiers, what's saying that Judge didn't hand over this clone - Vergo - to Mingo for payment/trade of something. I.E. man-made devil fruits. Or even weapons since he's building an army.

As for what he could be building an army for. Probably to take over Big Mom either during or after the wedding. Now so far Big Mom has some incredibly strong crew members. And even though we never saw the full extent of Vergo's powers, he was a force to be reckoned with. Now a whole army of soldiers at, above, or below his strength could easily give anyone a good run for their money. Maybe not win the fight, but definitely back who ever into a corner.

But why take out Big Mom? More than likely because she's the easiest target. She wants a big family, and her motivations for sweets is also a big consideration as well. Black Beard has a crew of weirdies that somehow take your devil fruit powers from you, and everyone has the distinct impression that Kaido is immortal(he maybe or he's just too damn strong). So that leaves Shanks. As we've seen, Shanks is a noble man(from our view point). So he wouldn't want to have anything to do with Judge and is underworld doings. So really Big Mom is the last option. If they can take her down, even if it's by a lowly surprise attack, that's still big news. There by giving Judge more notoriety and more power to play with.

It's a bit of a stretch but it's nice to think about.

2016-09-21, 03:28	Link #1
marvelB Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	One Piece - Chapter 840 [manga] Welcome to the weekly manga discussion thread for One Piece. Thread GuidelineBriefs One Piece is licensed by Viz, please don't ask for or mention where to find or download the manga. Please do not discuss scanlations, translation groups, etc., etc. Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum. Discuss your expectations of the chapter if it has not been published yet. Posting a synopses or summary is fine (and welcome). Be polite to your fellow forum members. Please try to keep the discussion on topic. Spoilers will not be policed in this thread, so if you haven't read the chapter yet, just stay out if you don't want to read spoilers. Remember that the manga is licensed, do not post significant parts of the chapter. This includes images, scripts and direct translations of the manga. Summaries are OK, crops of pictures are OK (only if you need to illustrate your point) but this is it. It's time! Credit goes to AP's Sandman and YonkouProductions for the spoiler info: -Chapter title is "Iron Mask". Splash page features Chopper eating honey with various "bears" (including Bepo, the Hiking Bear from Drum, Bearsy from Thriller Bark, and.... yes, even Bartholomew Kuma, lol). -Yonji reveals some secrets of the Germa Kingdom to Sanji. It was, originally, a country of science. In fact, Judge once worked together with Dr. Vegapunk as illegal researchers! However, Vegapunk was eventually found by the WG and arrested once he discovered the "blueprint of life". Soon afterwards, the WG decided to hire Vegapunk's research team for their own purposes, but Judge alone escaped from their clutches and continued his research independently. -We then learn that Germa soldiers in the tubes are indeed clones! More precisely, they're clones of elite soldiers. They're programmed to be loyal to their boss, and do not fear death. Soon, Ichiji and Niji appear in the lab, and taunt Sanji some more. Sanji, who's still enraged by his brother's treatment of the chef Cosette, assaults Niji! He kicks his older brother's face, but oddly.... the attack seems to have no effect at all. Niji then uses some stealthy maneuver where he suddenly sneaks behind Sanji, and takes him down with an electrical attack! -Niji tells his younger brother that he's going to make their hierarchy clear. A flashback then begins where all 5 of the Vinsmoke siblings are gathered in front of Judge, who calls them his masterpieces. He says that they're the results of advanced research, and are existences who have surpassed human beings. However, as they're being trained, Judge notices that Sanji alone is unable to keep up with his harsh regimen. As he has one of his scientists examine the children, the scientist reports that Sanji's brothers have all developed strong exoskeletons, but Sanji alone is no different from the average human. This news greatly disappoints Judge, who considers his third son a failure.... -Judge later tells his men that Sanji was caught in a shipwreck. However, the reality of the situation is that the boy was imprisoned within the kingdom's dungeon, and was forced to wear an iron mask. He's not even able to eat, nor ask for help. Judge renounces Sanji's existence. Meanwhile, the imprisoned boy can do naught but shed tears and repeatedly ask his father for forgiveness.......

2016-09-21, 06:58	Link #6
Ultragunner Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	so that "weakling" of a son has become a young and relatively famous pirate who is now able to use both Kenbunshoku and Busoshoku Haki, F***u Vinsmoke! And is it me or the those @ssholes know that they can't beat Sanji in a fair fight so they keep bringing up old man Zeff? __________________

2016-09-21, 09:31	Link #11
khoa1708 www.kh0a.net Join Date: May 2004	i think sanji has that stronger exoskeleton thing too, we just don't know it yet __________________

2016-09-21, 11:27	Link #14
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	Damn, Sanji's childhood was horrible. Only his sister seemed to treat him with a little bit of affection. I can't fucking wait to see his brothers and his father get their asses handed to them. __________________

2016-09-21, 15:37	Link #17
ZGoten Custom User Title Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Germany Age: 34	Oh how terrible the World Government must have found Vegapunk's discovery. Thank God they "arrested" him for it. This just reeks of bullcrap. I guess it's safe to say the WG has their own manufactured humans, and it wouldn't surprise me if they outclassed Germa's by leagues. __________________ Truth is elusive to those who refuse to see with both eyes.

2016-09-21, 03:37	Link #2
WyrdMonger Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Alberta	I knew it. The five are actually clones created from Judge's blood, literally. But there is the possibility, that some foreign dna was included, which would explain Reiju's gender. Or perhaps she's actually a trap.

2016-09-21, 06:08	Link #5
~Yami~ a random Indonesian otaku Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Xanadu Age: 32	This series just hit another level of darkness and despair Who would never think that Sanji is not an ordinary human? now I'm afraid that Zoro is not normal as well

2016-09-21, 08:47	Link #8
DreGon45 Rouge Encoder Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: wut?	Does anyone else find it kind of ironic that Sanji, a french based character got an iron mask? This of course following the three musketeers and the man in the iron mask. Now knowing Oda at this point that may have been his aim, but if it wasn't that's one hell of a coincidence. The three musketeers Ichiji, Niji, and Yonji, with Sanji being the man in the iron mask.

2016-09-21, 11:18	Link #13
Ramero 7th Order Knight / Hermit Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: St. Celestina	If Zoro was there he can unleash the "stress" from Zoro vs Sanji on every arcs involving Zoro vs Sanji to all Germa family. I start to think that is it only Sanji in Germa family that can use Haki?

2016-09-21, 12:10	Link #15
itachi-san314 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	I called Germa being related to Vegapunk a while back. Like I said back then, I still think we will get at least an intro glimpse of him this arc. Now it looks even more likely since Oda is reminding everyone of him. The homage references in this arc are through the roof at this point. In addition to the Alexandre Dumas references mentioned above, this is also straight out of the Star Wars prequels (not that George Lucas can be compared to Dumas lol...) but this is the same clone army plot device of Episode 2 and Oda's even got the order 66 (666) thing going on. I was going to bring up the 66 reference earlier, but it seemed dumb. Now I'm sure of it. Like Kishi, Oda must also be a Star Wars prequel junkie.

2016-09-21, 13:53	Link #16
The Small One Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Germany	I didn't completely understand the relations in the flashback on the beginning of the chapter. So Judge and Vegapunk were science buddies and were hunted by the WG. Does this mean, that at this time in the story, the Germa wern't royals yet? If they were, why would the WG hunt one of their own? But if they became royals later, for what reason? So does Vegapunk himself comes from this kingdom? I really wonder, what Judge needs Big Mom for. He is able to produce his own soldiers, so he should be able to reach his goals on his own.

2016-09-21, 16:37	Link #20
DreGon45 Rouge Encoder Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: wut?	Wait lets rewind for a second. Ok flash back to Punk Hazard. Remember when Sanji fought Vergo and Sanji had mentioned that his body was hard, almost like iron. Well speed forward to this volume and one of the Judges aids had mentioned all of their(the children) 'outer skeletons' have hardened. The Germa Clones all look similar to Vergo. What if Vergo was one of the experiments? I mean I'm sure most people would argue that Vergo started using Haki when he had cracked sanji's femur, but lets also take into consideration that Vergo worked for Mingo. Both Mingo and Judge are huge in the underworld market from what we've been told thus far. So if Vergo is in fact one of these Germa super soldiers, what's saying that Judge didn't hand over this clone - Vergo - to Mingo for payment/trade of something. I.E. man-made devil fruits. Or even weapons since he's building an army. As for what he could be building an army for. Probably to take over Big Mom either during or after the wedding. Now so far Big Mom has some incredibly strong crew members. And even though we never saw the full extent of Vergo's powers, he was a force to be reckoned with. Now a whole army of soldiers at, above, or below his strength could easily give anyone a good run for their money. Maybe not win the fight, but definitely back who ever into a corner. But why take out Big Mom? More than likely because she's the easiest target. She wants a big family, and her motivations for sweets is also a big consideration as well. Black Beard has a crew of weirdies that somehow take your devil fruit powers from you, and everyone has the distinct impression that Kaido is immortal(he maybe or he's just too damn strong). So that leaves Shanks. As we've seen, Shanks is a noble man(from our view point). So he wouldn't want to have anything to do with Judge and is underworld doings. So really Big Mom is the last option. If they can take her down, even if it's by a lowly surprise attack, that's still big news. There by giving Judge more notoriety and more power to play with. It's a bit of a stretch but it's nice to think about.