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ganbaru · 2012-09-17, 12:49

Taxes and the Economy: An Economic Analysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945
http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...42729_0917.pdf

Do Tax Cuts Lead to Economic Growth?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/op...ic-growth.html
The kind of ''fact'' than Romney campain will never recognise...

Vexx · 2012-09-17, 13:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Taxes and the Economy: An Economic Analysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945
http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...42729_0917.pdf

Do Tax Cuts Lead to Economic Growth?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/op...ic-growth.html
The kind of ''fact'' than Romney campain will never recognise...

Basically, the facts don't support the ideology... that's when words like "cult", "insane", or "lying selfish jackasses" start being applicable.

ganbaru · 2012-09-17, 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Basically, the facts don't support the ideology... that's when words like "cult", "insane", or "lying selfish jackasses" start being applicable.

Yes, even thought than we pretty much know than the ''cult'' exist because it was implanted by the only one than really do profit by it.

Reckoner · 2012-09-17, 14:50

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1829455.html

Quote:

Mitt Romney Video: Barack Obama Voters 'Dependent On Government'

The source has given the full video to Mother Jones' David Corn, the source said.

The videos capture Romney speaking loosely about Obama supporters, immigrants, privilege and a host of other controversial issues. The candidate seems unguarded and displays the sense of humor that is often mentioned by those close to him, but is so rarely on public display.

The Romney campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

It's Romney's remark about the president's backers that might have the most potential to undermine his candidacy, however, as Romney seeks to persuade people who voted for Obama in 2008 to switch this time.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what," Romney says in one clip. "All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."

Romney's comments on the video go a step beyond his August claim, made in public, that the Obama administration's state-by-state welfare waivers were an effort to "shore up his base." In the behind-closed-doors speech to donors, Romney seems to be suggesting that nearly half of Americans expect to have all their needs supplied by the government.

So Mitt what about people who support these government programs but don't use any of the programs?

Anh_Minh · 2012-09-17, 15:17

So he does have actual opinions and world views? 'cause I think VCV was starting to worry on that front...

ganbaru · 2012-09-17, 16:05

^ If what I read is true, there's a growing part of his party than want him to strat to talk about his policies.

james0246 · 2012-09-17, 16:10

I thought Romney was supposed to have some big summit today where he would only discuss specific policy...did that not happen?

Vexx · 2012-09-17, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

I thought Romney was supposed to have some big summit today where he would only discuss specific policy...did that not happen?

Dunno, I turned off my radio/tv for the next few days -- needed a brain "colon cleanse" after the uptick of worldwide stupid of the last few days.

Writing stories and playing music.... <cranks bass guitar up to "11">

willx · 2012-09-17, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

Dunno, I turned off my radio/tv for the next few days -- needed a brain "colon cleanse" after the uptick of worldwide stupid of the last few days.

Writing stories and playing music.... <cranks bass guitar up to "11">

That sounds like a very effective "detox" diet..

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-09-17, 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

So he does have actual opinions and world views? 'cause I think VCV was starting to worry on that front...

Yeah, I am VERY happy to hear the "real" Romney. This is recorded when Romney is amongst the wealthy people he felt at home with, and only in situations like those would he speak honestly.

It is most interesting that Romney believe 47% of the country would never vote for him. And that he considered them worthless human-beings. I look forward to people on the street asking him if they are part of the 47%.

I also wonder if Romney was impressed with Chinese working conditions, the way he talked about them.

EDIT: I noticed that comments in news sites have GOP supporters claiming that's what they believe as well. I guess the idea is to make everyone think they are part of the 53%.

ganbaru · 2012-09-17, 16:50

^ I thought than Romney said 47% of thoses than voted for Obama, not all the country, no ?

willx · 2012-09-17, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

^ I thought than Romney said 47% of thoses than voted for Obama, not all the country, no ?

His point was that he thinks that 47% will vote for Obama no matter what as they expect all their needs should be taken care of by government.

Now, I'm not a fan of the current GOP by any means, but I'd also add that it's a little discussed fact that it was Clinton that repealed Glass-Steagall. The Dems have "blood on their hands" too, folks.

Vexx · 2012-09-17, 16:59

After all, no Republican has ever used the infrastructure safety net... o... wait.

And every Democrat is dependent on .... oh.... wait.

Or that the social services are when people have taken a tumble and need a helping hand, or they have obstacles that if the community supports them, the community gets a win-win out of it, or....

Or I could just decide the people who support Romney are either total tools, idiots, or sociopaths and manipulative of the first two groups.

What Willx says is certainly true because the bankerism and corporatists cut through both parties. It does not make both parties "the same" but it does mean that, on certain topics, you'd have a hard time telling them apart based on their actual actions in regard to "mega-corp vs community". I recognize the Dems are up to their neck in corporatist string pulling but I also recognize they aren't nearly out of control with the "batshit insane clowns proclaiming god/flag" trying to take the steering wheel. I mean, Boehner on his own is a rather pragmatic cynic who might want to get things done -- but the zealots and tea party extremists have hamstrung him because he wants the shiny office more than he wants to get things done.

james0246 · 2012-09-17, 16:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by ganbaru

^ I thought than Romney said 47% of thoses than voted for Obama, not all the country, no ?

Probably true, but Romney's words are misleading. He seems to be saying that 47% of Americas will vote for Obama, but I think he means to say 47% of Democrats or something along those lines.

Whatever the case, his words strike at the heart of the cultural divide that current bridges this country. There are those that believe it is a countries moral imperative to help all its citizens to have a specific standard of living, whereas the other half believe that besides some simple basic liberties/rights (religion, guns, state rights, guns, speech, etc) everything is up to the individual.

willx · 2012-09-17, 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

Probably true, but Romney's words are misleading. He seems to be saying that 47% of Americas will vote for Obama, but I think he means to say 47% of Democrats or something along those lines.

Whatever the case, his words strike at the heart of the cultural divide that current bridges this country. There are those that believe it is a countries moral imperative to help all its citizens to have a specific standard of living, whereas the other half believe that besides some simple basic liberties/rights (religion, guns, state rights, guns, speech, etc) everything is up to the individual.

See, cutting through the rhetoric, this is what it has always supposed to have been about.. Things appear to have gotten a tad muddled though.

Vallen Chaos Valiant · 2012-09-17, 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

Probably true, but Romney's words are misleading. He seems to be saying that 47% of Americas will vote for Obama, but I think he means to say 47% of Democrats or something along those lines.

Whatever the case, his words strike at the heart of the cultural divide that current bridges this country. There are those that believe it is a countries moral imperative to help all its citizens to have a specific standard of living, whereas the other half believe that besides some simple basic liberties/rights (religion, guns, state rights, guns, speech, etc) everything is up to the individual.

Yep, like it or not, this is the reality of the American political fight. This is the conflict and debate that is really splitting the nation, and it is more complicated than being right or wrong.

Of course, this is complicated by the fact that the rich elites get government welfare as well and that will increase under GOP policies. The poor get welfare because they need it; the rich get welfare because they can demand it.

Anh_Minh · 2012-09-17, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

Probably true, but Romney's words are misleading. He seems to be saying that 47% of Americas will vote for Obama, but I think he means to say 47% of Democrats or something along those lines.

"As for the other 53 percent? Romney may have been referencing a meme started by conservative blogger Erick Erickson, who has noted that only 53 percent of Americans pay federal income taxes."

Looks like he thinks the 47% who don't pay federal taxes will vote democrat, but almost all of those that do will vote for him.

... He doesn't even know who his own demographics are? Isn't that, like, basic homework for someone running for office at that level?

Quote:

Whatever the case, his words strike at the heart of the cultural divide that current bridges this country. There are those that believe it is a countries moral imperative to help all its citizens to have a specific standard of living, whereas the other half believe that besides some simple basic liberties/rights (religion, guns, state rights, guns, speech, etc) everything is up to the individual.

Except for sexuality and pregnancy?

Vexx · 2012-09-17, 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Except for sexuality and pregnancy?

Ah, you noticed the inconsistency there

Corporations might be people but women are property, it seems.

Mentar · 2012-09-17, 18:03

Well, here it is... Mitt unplugged.

ganbaru · 2012-09-17, 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Looks like he thinks the 47% who don't pay federal taxes will vote democrat, but almost all of those that do will vote for him.

Given than we stil don't know if Romney really did pay any income taxes thoses last fews years, should we put him on the 47 % ?

2012-09-17, 12:49	Link #501
ganbaru books-eater youkai Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity	Taxes and the Economy: An Economic Analysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945 http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...42729_0917.pdf Do Tax Cuts Lead to Economic Growth? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/op...ic-growth.html The kind of ''fact'' than Romney campain will never recognise... __________________

2012-09-17, 16:05	Link #506
ganbaru books-eater youkai Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity	^ If what I read is true, there's a growing part of his party than want him to strat to talk about his policies. __________________

2012-09-17, 16:50	Link #511
ganbaru books-eater youkai Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity	^ I thought than Romney said 47% of thoses than voted for Obama, not all the country, no ? __________________

2012-09-17, 16:59	Link #513
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	After all, no Republican has ever used the infrastructure safety net... o... wait. And every Democrat is dependent on .... oh.... wait. Or that the social services are when people have taken a tumble and need a helping hand, or they have obstacles that if the community supports them, the community gets a win-win out of it, or.... Or I could just decide the people who support Romney are either total tools, idiots, or sociopaths and manipulative of the first two groups. What Willx says is certainly true because the bankerism and corporatists cut through both parties. It does not make both parties "the same" but it does mean that, on certain topics, you'd have a hard time telling them apart based on their actual actions in regard to "mega-corp vs community". I recognize the Dems are up to their neck in corporatist string pulling but I also recognize they aren't nearly out of control with the "batshit insane clowns proclaiming god/flag" trying to take the steering wheel. I mean, Boehner on his own is a rather pragmatic cynic who might want to get things done -- but the zealots and tea party extremists have hamstrung him because he wants the shiny office more than he wants to get things done. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2012-09-17, 18:03	Link #519
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	Well, here it is... Mitt unplugged. <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/XnB0NZzl5HA">watch on YouTube</a>.</p>

2012-09-17, 15:17	Link #505
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	So he does have actual opinions and world views? 'cause I think VCV was starting to worry on that front...

2012-09-17, 16:10	Link #507
james0246 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	I thought Romney was supposed to have some big summit today where he would only discuss specific policy...did that not happen?