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Guardian Enzo · 2013-10-05, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squarecrow

I wonder, if I went into the Golden Time thread would there be people so utterly pissed at Koko's actions as they are at Hikari's here or would everyone be defending her (or not talking about it at all)?

Gotta love the hate on the male tsunderes.

I think you know the answer to that question without even needing to ask it.

Dr. Casey · 2013-10-05, 00:41

Not that the underlying point isn't valid, but since Koko's tsundere antics are played for lighthearted slapstick comedy, it's true that they don't bother me in the slightest, whereas Hikari's domineering streak is somewhat discomforting. To me it's not the gender but the gravitas and tone of the scene; I might get angry at someone being beaten up in a serious drama while shrugging off two characters in Looney Tunes hitting each other with mallets.

musouka · 2013-10-05, 00:55

Yeah, those poor male tsundere, criticized solely because of their genitalia. It's not like female tsundere ever come in for their own share of criticism. No way.

Btw, I love male tsundere. But I don't think many of Hikari's actions fall under that label.

Utsuro no Hako · 2013-10-05, 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squarecrow

I wonder, if I went into the Golden Time thread would there be people so utterly pissed at Koko's actions as they are at Hikari's here or would everyone be defending her (or not talking about it at all)?

Well, yes, people generally don't complain when the antagonist does antagonistic things. I'm not sure how that's relevant to the protagonist here being a jerk.

totoum · 2013-10-05, 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

Well, yes, people generally don't complain when the antagonist does antagonistic things. I'm not sure how that's relevant to the protagonist here being a jerk.

I'm not sure how one can watch Golden Time and think Koko is an antagonist

Triple_R · 2013-10-05, 01:56

Anime Fan 1: There's a character I like, and people are criticizing him/her for objectively bad behavior. What should I do?

Anime Fan 2: Simple! Call him/her a "tsundere"! It's a get out of jail free card! It should even work for both genders now.

Anime Fan 1: Thank you Anime Fan 2, you saved the day!

~Tsundere~ - Preventing anime characters from having to be held accountable for their words and actions for at least 25 years!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest.

totoum · 2013-10-05, 02:21

That weird feeling when "tsundere" din't even cross my mind when it comes to Hikari before entering this thread.

I guess the reason I don't hate the guy is that I feel his intentions are good even if his actions are misplaced and he does love Manaka.
I never felt any of those things concerning Kirino (though I never bothered with Oreimo S2)

Blaat · 2013-10-05, 02:28

Ultimately he's just immature and doesn't know how to handle his emotions, I find it more annoying that the people in his environment enables his behaviour (not telling him off).

ZabiLegacy · 2013-10-05, 02:34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgA2xo0HYrE

ookamigirl · 2013-10-05, 02:49

Regular school story with an added twist.
I like the sea world setting ^^
The animation is really nice.
It's a bit too childish for me though.
Think I'm gonna skip this one.

orion · 2013-10-05, 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Anime Fan 1: There's a character I like, and people are criticizing him/her for objectively bad behavior. What should I do?

Anime Fan 2: Simple! Call him/her a "tsundere"! It's a get out of jail free card! It should even work for both genders now.

Anime Fan 1: Thank you Anime Fan 2, you saved the day!

~Tsundere~ - Preventing anime characters from having to be held accountable for their words and actions for at least 25 years!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest.

Totally agree. People like him are called relationship abusers now.

http://stoprelationshipabuse.org/edu...ionship-abuse/

-----

So do you think that there's going to be a male sacrifice this time? The story was that a female land sacrifice to a male sea god led to the sea people. What if this time it's a male land sacrifice (Tsugumu) to a female sea god (Manaka) used to revitalize the sea people or lead to better relations? I bring this up as Hikari seems to be the narrator for what's going on.

playmaker2k · 2013-10-05, 04:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Not that the underlying point isn't valid, but since Koko's tsundere antics are played for lighthearted slapstick comedy, it's true that they don't bother me in the slightest, whereas Hikari's domineering streak is somewhat discomforting. To me it's not the gender but the gravitas and tone of the scene; I might get angry at someone being beaten up in a serious drama while shrugging off two characters in Looney Tunes hitting each other with mallets.

I agree with this.

Hikari is only 13, but he is showing early signs of being a wife beater in the future.

Have you seen his pops? I wouldn't be surprise if he grew up looking like that too.

I can imagine him with a beer belly and balancing a bowl of Doritos on it while marinating on the couch and pointing at a sobbing Manaka to get back in the kitchen. She deserves a better life.

===============

That's why I'm all for Team Quiet Guy.

He's unintentionally smooth.

Caressing Manaka's cheek and telling her she's beautiful is the way to do it.

Dark Faith · 2013-10-05, 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

It's interesting that everyone is convinced there's no good reason the characters are the way they are after one episode with no backstory out of a two-cour series. But then, as this show was almost universally dismissed as a disaster before it even premiered I guess it's at least consistent.

It's still way too early to be putting labels on characters, but we've got a whole week until the next episode, so I guess judging them keeps us busy?

But as you say, it's only the first episode out of a two cour show, so there's still a lot of character development and backstories to be seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squarecrow

I wonder, if I went into the Golden Time thread would there be people so utterly pissed at Koko's actions as they are at Hikari's here or would everyone be defending her (or not talking about it at all)?

Gotta love the hate on the male tsunderes.

Don't worry, I hate all tsunderes equally. Nearly dropped Golden Time the moment Koko showed up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Anime Fan 1: There's a character I like, and people are criticizing him/her for objectively bad behavior. What should I do?

Anime Fan 2: Simple! Call him/her a "tsundere"! It's a get out of jail free card! It should even work for both genders now.

Anime Fan 1: Thank you Anime Fan 2, you saved the day!

~Tsundere~ - Preventing anime characters from having to be held accountable for their words and actions for at least 25 years!

Ahahahaha. So much truth in that. It's part of the reason why I hate nowadays' "tsundere" characters. They can get away with all kinds of irrational bad behavior just because of their label.

Kirarakim · 2013-10-05, 07:04

I don't think Hikari is a tsundere but I do think he is a 13 yr old boy who is a bit immature. He likes a girl and he doesn't know how to express it so he is domineering towards her.

His behavior is incorrect but I don't think this means he is going to grow up to be a bad person. He has negative character flaws. If this is a well written show then we should see how he grows out of them. You know sometimes a show writes a character one way for a reason. It's not about making excuses, its about looking at it from a writing perspective. Now if he was older I might say this was bad writing, but as I can see Hikari is still young & immature I allow for these sort of flaws and wait to see where the story takes him.

Winterson · 2013-10-05, 08:03

Just finished watching the first episode, and yes the animation, characters and the impending stinging vibes it effuses are amazingly well done. Just forgot about human logic and accepted the show's. Besides, it's all original and new. Sea humans can breathe both underwater and on land.
The heroine fancies the surface world and takes a liking to a human boy who loves the sea while the hero only has his eyes on the heroine as both are sea dwellers. Furthermore, the tag-along chick also has feelings towards the male lead, and the other tag-along friend is ready to be used seemingly as a rebound.

It has already taken my liking, and crap! It's still only the first episode yet the situations are already complicated. Hikari, the tsundere, is overprotective towards Manaka and can't simply control his temper. He's more likely to be her knight while Tsugumu is the black prince. Tsugumu gives off a mysterious aura as to his stoic face somehow changes into a lively expression, yearning for the sea. This is serious.

In addition, sheepish but aggressive guys do not always win against straightforward gentlemen. Before they know it, their love interests are no longer available.

Allium · 2013-10-05, 08:10

Wasn't planning to watch this, but I decided to give it a try. Nice visuals, and the premise is interesting. None of the characters are very likable at the moment, but the first episode establishes the relationship and dynamics between the characters quite well. Guess I'll keep up with this to see where the direction of the story goes.

Utsuro no Hako · 2013-10-05, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

I'm not sure how one can watch Golden Time and think Koko is an antagonist

What term do you use for the character who creates the problems that the protagonist and his friend have to deal with? She may change roles later on (and if she's acting the same way when she does, people should criticize her), but for right now she's the antagonist to Barni and Yana.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

I don't think Hikari is a tsundere but I do think he is a 13 yr old boy who is a bit immature. He likes a girl and he doesn't know how to express it so he is domineering towards her.

What he's doing goes beyond flicking spitballs at her and pulling her pigtails. Right now he's on the path to becoming the guy who causes a scene at a restaurant because he thinks his girlfriend's flirting with the waiter.

Kirarakim · 2013-10-05, 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

What he's doing goes beyond flicking spitballs at her and pulling her pigtails. Right now he's on the path to becoming the guy who causes a scene at a restaurant because he thinks his girlfriend's flirting with the waiter.

Now you are talking stereotypes. I am pretty sure the way a 13 year old boy may act goes beyond spitballs and pigtails.

Miraluka · 2013-10-05, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by playmaker2k

I agree with this.

Hikari is only 13, but he is showing early signs of being a wife beater in the future.

Have you seen his pops? I wouldn't be surprise if he grew up looking like that too.

I can imagine him with a beer belly and balancing a bowl of Doritos on it while marinating on the couch and pointing at a sobbing Manaka to get back in the kitchen. She deserves a better life.

===============

That's why I'm all for Team Quiet Guy.

He's unintentionally smooth.

Caressing Manaka's cheek and telling her she's beautiful is the way to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako

What he's doing goes beyond flicking spitballs at her and pulling her pigtails. Right now he's on the path to becoming the guy who causes a scene at a restaurant because he thinks his girlfriend's flirting with the waiter.

Its surprising to see people who are on the very extreme on the spectre when exagerating stereotypes.

Seriously.... what is next? Hikari the drug addict? Or Hikari the alcoholic?

Oh, and Tsugumu is like a harem male protagonist, doesn't do anything aside being yasashii and the girl automatically falls in love with him. Extra points for him because she caught her just when Manaka is on heat season

.

Haak · 2013-10-05, 10:34

So I finally got round to watching this and I felt that the première was okay. It didn't really captivate me or anything but I did like it overall. What intriges me most isn't reallty the characters but the setting and the interesting tension between the sea people and and land dwellers.

Hikari is a bit of an arsehole but he's only 13 so I can give a bit of leeway to him. As for him bullying Manaka, I wouldn't go as far as to say he's bullying because at the end of the day he does care about her a lot, but he is being an arse to her and it shouldn't be seen as okay just because he's being a tsundere. I don't tolerate female tsunderes very much either unless the guy can bite back and/or karma bites her in the arse, so i don't think there's any Double Standard going on there. I will admit that I might have a slight Double Standard in regards to Manaka though: I wish she'd have a bit more backbone and just tell Hikari where he can shove his opinions. But I will admit that I find her far more tolerable than similarly spineless male leads that don't stick up for themselves against a tsundere. However, in those cases I'm probably harsher to the male examples because most of the time the guy isn't actually dominated by the girl and the real pecking order becomes clear whenever there are scenes of conflict (which can admittedly lead to it's own Unfortunate Implications but whatever). In any case, I can give a bit of leeway to Hikari's character here too because it doesn't look to me like he's going to get away with it. In fact it seems heavily likely to me that his constant abusing of Manaka is going to bite him in the arse, thanks to the presence of Kihara. Eventually I think he's going to have to learn. I'm just wondering if he'll be learning the hard way.

If we're going to be anal about this though, I'd like to point out that what Uroko did was far worse, as well as extremely disturbing.

2013-10-05, 00:55	Link #323
musouka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Yeah, those poor male tsundere, criticized solely because of their genitalia. It's not like female tsundere ever come in for their own share of criticism. No way. Btw, I love male tsundere. But I don't think many of Hikari's actions fall under that label. __________________ 雨の日も晴れの日もいつの日も愛してたそれだけは今もまだずっと変りはしない

2013-10-05, 01:56	Link #326
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	Anime Fan 1: There's a character I like, and people are criticizing him/her for objectively bad behavior. What should I do? Anime Fan 2: Simple! Call him/her a "tsundere"! It's a get out of jail free card! It should even work for both genders now. Anime Fan 1: Thank you Anime Fan 2, you saved the day! *~Tsundere~* - Preventing anime characters from having to be held accountable for their words and actions for at least 25 years! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sorry, but I had to get that off my chest. __________________

2013-10-05, 02:21	Link #327
totoum Me at work Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 36	That weird feeling when "tsundere" din't even cross my mind when it comes to Hikari before entering this thread. I guess the reason I don't hate the guy is that I feel his intentions are good even if his actions are misplaced and he does love Manaka. I never felt any of those things concerning Kirino (though I never bothered with Oreimo S2) __________________

2013-10-05, 02:28	Link #328
Blaat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004	Ultimately he's just immature and doesn't know how to handle his emotions, I find it more annoying that the people in his environment enables his behaviour (not telling him off). __________________ MyAnimeList

2013-10-05, 02:34	Link #329
ZabiLegacy Robo Rampage Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Aboa Qu	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgA2xo0HYrE __________________ For more from me, follow my writing at http://sekijitsu.com. To get easy accesses to our newest posts, please consider liking our brand spanking new Facebook Page.

2013-10-05, 00:41	Link #322
Dr. Casey Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Tennessee Age: 36	Not that the underlying point isn't valid, but since Koko's tsundere antics are played for lighthearted slapstick comedy, it's true that they don't bother me in the slightest, whereas Hikari's domineering streak is somewhat discomforting. To me it's not the gender but the gravitas and tone of the scene; I might get angry at someone being beaten up in a serious drama while shrugging off two characters in Looney Tunes hitting each other with mallets.

2013-10-05, 02:49	Link #330
ookamigirl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Regular school story with an added twist. I like the sea world setting ^^ The animation is really nice. It's a bit too childish for me though. Think I'm gonna skip this one. __________________ My Blog --> ookami

2013-10-05, 07:04	Link #334
Kirarakim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	I don't think Hikari is a tsundere but I do think he is a 13 yr old boy who is a bit immature. He likes a girl and he doesn't know how to express it so he is domineering towards her. His behavior is incorrect but I don't think this means he is going to grow up to be a bad person. He has negative character flaws. If this is a well written show then we should see how he grows out of them. You know sometimes a show writes a character one way for a reason. It's not about making excuses, its about looking at it from a writing perspective. Now if he was older I might say this was bad writing, but as I can see Hikari is still young & immature I allow for these sort of flaws and wait to see where the story takes him. __________________ Twitter MAL

2013-10-05, 08:03	Link #335
Winterson Wrath of Her Fury Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Earth's last post of defense	Just finished watching the first episode, and yes the animation, characters and the impending stinging vibes it effuses are amazingly well done. Just forgot about human logic and accepted the show's. Besides, it's all original and new. Sea humans can breathe both underwater and on land. The heroine fancies the surface world and takes a liking to a human boy who loves the sea while the hero only has his eyes on the heroine as both are sea dwellers. Furthermore, the tag-along chick also has feelings towards the male lead, and the other tag-along friend is ready to be used seemingly as a rebound. It has already taken my liking, and crap! It's still only the first episode yet the situations are already complicated. Hikari, the tsundere, is overprotective towards Manaka and can't simply control his temper. He's more likely to be her knight while Tsugumu is the black prince. Tsugumu gives off a mysterious aura as to his stoic face somehow changes into a lively expression, yearning for the sea. This is serious. In addition, sheepish but aggressive guys do not always win against straightforward gentlemen. Before they know it, their love interests are no longer available. __________________ WORDS ARE JUST WORDS UNLESS YOU PUT MEANING INTO IT.

2013-10-05, 08:10	Link #336
Allium Keep on keeping on Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: The pale blue dot...	Wasn't planning to watch this, but I decided to give it a try. Nice visuals, and the premise is interesting. None of the characters are very likable at the moment, but the first episode establishes the relationship and dynamics between the characters quite well. Guess I'll keep up with this to see where the direction of the story goes.

2013-10-05, 10:34	Link #340
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	So I finally got round to watching this and I felt that the première was okay. It didn't really captivate me or anything but I did like it overall. What intriges me most isn't reallty the characters but the setting and the interesting tension between the sea people and and land dwellers. Hikari is a bit of an arsehole but he's only 13 so I can give a bit of leeway to him. As for him bullying Manaka, I wouldn't go as far as to say he's bullying because at the end of the day he does care about her a lot, but he is being an arse to her and it shouldn't be seen as okay just because he's being a tsundere. I don't tolerate female tsunderes very much either unless the guy can bite back and/or karma bites her in the arse, so i don't think there's any Double Standard going on there. I will admit that I might have a slight Double Standard in regards to Manaka though: I wish she'd have a bit more backbone and just tell Hikari where he can shove his opinions. But I will admit that I find her far more tolerable than similarly spineless male leads that don't stick up for themselves against a tsundere. However, in those cases I'm probably harsher to the male examples because most of the time the guy isn't actually dominated by the girl and the real pecking order becomes clear whenever there are scenes of conflict (which can admittedly lead to it's own Unfortunate Implications but whatever). In any case, I can give a bit of leeway to Hikari's character here too because it doesn't look to me like he's going to get away with it. In fact it seems heavily likely to me that his constant abusing of Manaka is going to bite him in the arse, thanks to the presence of Kihara. Eventually I think he's going to have to learn. I'm just wondering if he'll be learning the hard way. If we're going to be anal about this though, I'd like to point out that what Uroko did was far worse, as well as extremely disturbing. __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners Last edited by Haak; 2013-10-05 at 11:16.