(L) Infinite Stratos - Light Novel/Manga Discussion

[wavehawk]

Problem is Izuru is still sticking to writing what he knows (Romcom Harem Comedy). He really needs to get some writing tips from proper Science Fiction writers or at least guys who are more used to writing mecha or techno-thriller material. Say get in touch with Mamoru Oshii and anyone who was involved with Headgear (the guys behind the original Patlabor series).

As I mentioned previously, the last combat-centric stories were basically rehashes of each other. Izuru's not that creative when thinking mecha combat, much less espionage and intruige (meaning Phantom Task is WOEFULLY underused and not played out very well).

[lovetospoon73]

true that, & create a lot less clueless MC

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

Okay so guys let me ask u this. So far IS has been a total and complete wash and from the sound of it the character ideas you guys have seem more interesting. What can IS do to salvage itself and make it a decent LN. (That doesnt involve shipping because thats another monster entirely).

More serious back story + politics, more IS action, less harem and a HELL MORE WINCEST whether imouto or nee-san!

[bakato]

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

Okay so guys let me ask u this. So far IS has been a total and complete wash and from the sound of it the character ideas you guys have seem more interesting. What can IS do to salvage itself and make it a decent LN. (That doesnt involve shipping because thats another monster entirely).

Tone down harem character density, get his romcom shit together, make plot a little more realistic and less about fanservice, oh and don't forget to make Ichika a little more badass by making him beat an enemy on his own for a change.

A good way to deliver on the goods would be to host a tournament that DOESN'T get crashed half-way.

[Oslight]

Let me tell you all why Ichika isn't really a bad character.

Most common complaints.

1.) Ichika is weak:

Houki - National kendo champion
Cecilia - A-ranked representative cadet
Laura - Augmented super soldier
Charlotte - Father manufactures IS
Rin - Definitely has some kind of military training.

So these girls all had high aptitude to use the IS, that's why they're attending ISA.
On the other hand:

Ichika - Did kendo for a while... that's about it. Only reason he's in ISA is because his sister made him so he doesn't get kidnapped by some foreign country and experimented on.

Now this unremarkable person managed to nearly defeat an A-ranked rep-cadet, defeated a few unmanned IS's, and stop America's experimental IS that went rogue.
So how the heck is that weak? That's bloody amazing if you ask me, I mean sure, he had help, but he was the one who finished them off.

2.) Ichika is dense.

While true, imagine if he wasn't... what did you think of? A school paradise? Well, it isn't that easy, because the moment he makes a move on a girl, he'd be dead.
The suspects? Five mentally unstable women.

Remember in the anime when Charlotte pulled her dress up to show Ichika that she was wearing panties, then immediately proceeded to punch him?
Or that time when Cecilia wore some lucky underwear in hopes of seducing Ichika, but a few hours prior, she punched him for seeing her breasts when she stood up? And also that time in her dream...

Seriously, what do they want?! Ichika is always on the receiving end whether it's his fault or not. They don't even know what they want, so how the heck should Ichika know?

Let me just quote an a/non from 4chan:

Spoiler:

>heroine walks into her assigned dorm room
>her childhood friend comes out of the shower naked
>he freaks and takes out a wooden sword and tries to smash her face in

>one day a French girl transfers in
>heroine is ecstatic at the thought of finally having a female friend in this otherwise all-male academy
>turns out it's actually a dude cross-dressing so he could get close to her and steal top-secret information about her IS

>heroine wake up in the morning
>she realizes she's sleeping next to a naked German supersoldier
>freak out and ask what the hell he's doing there
>her childhood friend walks into through the door
>he witnesses this entire scene and whips out his wooden sword and tries to kill her (again)

>heroine's childhood friend makes her promise to go out with him sometime
>she agree
>"let's go shopping, then!"
>he kicks her in the gut so hard she flies several feet up into the air

>heroine, against all logic, gets caught up in the heat of the moment and tries to kiss her childhood friend at the beach
>4 other guys show up and point high-powered weaponry at her and start shooting

>heroine is late to class because some strange guy was harassing her in the girl's locker room
>herr older brother tells the french guy to use you for target practice
>he happily complies

>student council president offers heroine's virginity up for taking in a contest where people violently assault her in an effort to steal her crown (something she doesn't know about)
>british guy and chinese dude show up with guns and knives and immediately start attacking her

>childhood friend shows up and shows her a supposedly safe spot (so he can steal her crown himself of course) but while climbing a ladder he suspects she's staring at his ass and starts kicking her in the face

Now that everything's put into this perspective, do you finally sympathize with Ichika's plight more? No wonder why he wants nothing to do with women and would rather just play the idiot

Ichika is really trying his best, despite being objectified by the girls of ISA, being in the shadow of his sister, and dealing with the guilt of causing her sister to lose the tournament. If there's anyone who needs to change it's the girls... maybe take some logic and some anger management classes.

[I'm-here-present]

This is... well you took the words out of my mouth and said even more...

I wish that everyone has this view of Ichika too... but then again... humans aren't exactly alike.

Also Ichika being dense is for the best, his harem is probably one of the most unstable. Him flirting with every girl is a death flag.

[Trung-t-rung]

Originally Posted by Oslight

Let me tell you all why Ichika isn't really a bad character.

Most common complaints.

1.) Ichika is weak:

Houki - National kendo champion
Cecilia - A-ranked representative cadet
Laura - Augmented super soldier
Charlotte - Father manufactures IS
Rin - Definitely has some kind of military training.

So these girls all had high aptitude to use the IS, that's why they're attending ISA.
On the other hand:

Ichika - Did kendo for a while... that's about it. Only reason he's in ISA is because his sister made him so he doesn't get kidnapped by some foreign country and experimented on.

Now this unremarkable person managed to nearly defeat an A-ranked rep-cadet, defeated a few unmanned IS's, and stop America's experimental IS that went rogue.
So how the heck is that weak? That's bloody amazing if you ask me, I mean sure, he had help, but he was the one who finished them off.

2.) Ichika is dense.

While true, imagine if he wasn't... what did you think of? A school paradise? Well, it isn't that easy, because the moment he makes a move on a girl, he'd be dead.
The suspects? Five mentally unstable women.

Remember in the anime when Charlotte pulled her dress up to show Ichika that she was wearing panties, then immediately proceeded to punch him?
Or that time when Cecilia wore some lucky underwear in hopes of seducing Ichika, but a few hours prior, she punched him for seeing her breasts when she stood up? And also that time in her dream...

Seriously, what do they want?! Ichika is always on the receiving end whether it's his fault or not. They don't even know what they want, so how the heck should Ichika know?

Let me just quote an a/non from 4chan:

Spoiler:

>heroine walks into her assigned dorm room
>her childhood friend comes out of the shower naked
>he freaks and takes out a wooden sword and tries to smash her face in

>one day a French girl transfers in
>heroine is ecstatic at the thought of finally having a female friend in this otherwise all-male academy
>turns out it's actually a dude cross-dressing so he could get close to her and steal top-secret information about her IS

>heroine wake up in the morning
>she realizes she's sleeping next to a naked German supersoldier
>freak out and ask what the hell he's doing there
>her childhood friend walks into through the door
>he witnesses this entire scene and whips out his wooden sword and tries to kill her (again)

>heroine's childhood friend makes her promise to go out with him sometime
>she agree
>"let's go shopping, then!"
>he kicks her in the gut so hard she flies several feet up into the air

>heroine, against all logic, gets caught up in the heat of the moment and tries to kiss her childhood friend at the beach
>4 other guys show up and point high-powered weaponry at her and start shooting

>heroine is late to class because some strange guy was harassing her in the girl's locker room
>herr older brother tells the french guy to use you for target practice
>he happily complies

>student council president offers heroine's virginity up for taking in a contest where people violently assault her in an effort to steal her crown (something she doesn't know about)
>british guy and chinese dude show up with guns and knives and immediately start attacking her

>childhood friend shows up and shows her a supposedly safe spot (so he can steal her crown himself of course) but while climbing a ladder he suspects she's staring at his ass and starts kicking her in the face

Now that everything's put into this perspective, do you finally sympathize with Ichika's plight more? No wonder why he wants nothing to do with women and would rather just play the idiot

Ichika is really trying his best, despite being objectified by the girls of ISA, being in the shadow of his sister, and dealing with the guilt of causing her sister to lose the tournament. If there's anyone who needs to change it's the girls... maybe take some logic and some anger management classes.

Except comparing to many mecha shows, he did a terrible job as a pilot, especially considering his IS is basically a custom one.
I guess people expecting more from an MC with a sister who is basically the strongest IS pilot in the world.
I mean comparing to other typical normal highschool student MC, Ichika is just not impressive. His only brief moment of glory is overpowering Cecilia who totally underestimated him and he suddenly unlocked his custom machine. Even after several volumes, there's still no sight of growing in his general fighting strength at all.

[I'm-here-present]

Custom IS doesn't merit extreme skills, you still need to train hard for it, heck it is even harder to master a personalized unit.

Ichika is not all that weak, remember in LN Tatenashi remarked that he learns fast and has physical aptitudes that are quite impressive, only that they are not shown because Ichika with his lack of training suddenly encounters very powerful opponents.
And maybe we should tone down our high expectations from other mecha-shows that shows some very badass MC. Comparison is inevitable but do try to see things in Ichika's shoes first before starting to expect that he will suddenly turn to a copy of of some other MC.

If there is anyone to blame, Izuru is.

[Oslight]

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

Except comparing to many mecha shows, he did a terrible job as a pilot, especially considering his IS is basically a custom one.
I guess people expecting more from an MC with a sister who is basically the strongest IS pilot in the world.
I mean comparing to other typical normal highschool student MC, Ichika is just not impressive. His only brief moment of glory is overpowering Cecilia who totally underestimated him and he suddenly unlocked his custom machine. Even after several volumes, there's still no sight of growing in his general fighting strength at all.

It's not really uncommon for the MC to be weak though, look at Araragi, Touma, Shinji etc.
Hell he managed to save beat Laura without a suit.
Sure, he's not overpowered, but does he really deserve all that hate?

[I'm-here-present]

It's not really hate, but more like criticism, though some really are hate

I understand their viewpoint because I've been through that, but now I chose to keep my thoughts in the dark until Ichika's true potential is revealed.

[Oslight]

He's trying.
If they want to see an already OP MC, there's always Tatsuya and Izayoi.

[demino_hellsin]

Araragi: The man is a problem solver. He has a different kind of strength.

Touma: Please review the list of enemies he's beaten.

Shinji: Not sure on this one but I know not a single Shinji that has had his ass handed to him ever so royally just to be saved by a power-up.

Ichika's win made 0 sense. The only reasoning you could say he won was because Laura was emulating 14 year old Chifuyu and he knew 14 year old Chifuyu's sword style by heart. Whatever good graces he gathered in badassery, he quickly annihilated with that out of place New-type moment right after. In short, that win was a mess with 0 progression. It's like manga cliches greatest hits strung together with no low notes to emphasize the high notes.

[I'm-here-present]

Here is one prime criticism remark...

It would be good if more of these get sent to Izuru personally, made this will get him to pull his thoughts together.

[Trung-t-rung]

Originally Posted by Oslight

He's trying.
If they want to see an already OP MC, there's always Tatsuya and Izayoi.

We want a balance type of MC, really. Strong but not too OP that he is power-breaking.
Hell, Izayoi has his asses kicked repeatedly when he faces top-tier in Little Garden.
Shinji is still a badass considered what he experienced everything his Eva felt, plus he's qualified to be in SRW games and gave prep talk to freaking Jesus Yamato. That's just badass.
Except most normal mecha MC probably kicking a bunch of asses when they got their hand on a custom or super prototype even without traning. Plus whatever Ichika is training, it just didn't work. Sure he maybe not useless like everyone say but he's just not reached the potential people expected out of him. Not in a good way either.

[Oslight]

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

Araragi: The man is a problem solver. He has a different kind of strength.

Touma: Please review the list of enemies he's beaten.

Shinji: Not sure on this one but I know not a single Shinji that has had his ass handed to him ever so royally just to be saved by a power-up.

Ichika's win made 0 sense. The only reasoning you could say he won was because Laura was emulating 14 year old Chifuyu and he knew 14 year old Chifuyu's sword style by heart. Whatever good graces he gathered in badassery, he quickly annihilated with that out of place New-type moment right after. In short, that win was a mess with 0 progression. It's like manga cliches greatest hits strung together with no low notes to emphasize the high notes.

No, I'm not saying weak as in they can't win, I mean they don't immediately obliterate the enemy with a single attack. They will bleed, but they will eventually win through struggle.

I don't know, but it seems that some people want Ichika to suddenly become Chifuyu, somehow.

[I'm-here-present]

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

We want a balance type of MC, really. Strong but not too OP that he is power-breaking.
Hell, Izayoi has his asses kicked repeatedly when he faces top-tier in Little Garden.
Shinji is still a badass considered what he experienced everything his Eva felt, plus he's qualified to be in SRW games and gave prep talk to freaking Jesus Yamato. That's just badass.
Except most normal mecha MC probably kicking a bunch of asses when they got their hand on a custom or super prototype even without traning. Plus whatever Ichika is training, it just didn't work. Sure he maybe not useless like everyone say but he's just not reached the potential people expected out of him. Not in a good way either.

Those two are not proper examples to be paired with Ichika, Izayoi is a genuine OP character regardless of him being beaten by the bosses, look at what he did to the other enemies he faced and that was just in the beginning episodes too.
Shinji is no good either, that boy has special characteristics to use in his piloting.

If you want some MC to pair to Ichika, find one who is similar, to him. Those who had no training and suddenly got roped into that situation where they have to suddenly pilot some mecha robot and definitely not those with some special traits that supports them when piloting their mecha.
Ichika was suddenly plucked out of the blue and stuffed into the IS world. Think you would be able to cope with that very suddenly change in your life, especially since you have absolute nothing special within you to at least aid you.

[Oslight]

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

We want a balance type of MC, really. Strong but not too OP that he is power-breaking.
Hell, Izayoi has his asses kicked repeatedly when he faces top-tier in Little Garden.
Shinji is still a badass considered what he experienced everything his Eva felt, plus he's qualified to be in SRW games and gave prep talk to freaking Jesus Yamato. That's just badass.
Except most normal mecha MC probably kicking a bunch of asses when they got their hand on a custom or super prototype even without traning. Plus whatever Ichika is training, it just didn't work. Sure he maybe not useless like everyone say but he's just not reached the potential people expected out of him. Not in a good way either.

Maybe he just doesn't have a high aptitude for the IS... remember, he's not there because he's qualified, he's there because he can pilot the IS, the same as every girl.

[demino_hellsin]

But Ichika didn't bleed. He didn't learn. He just gets pushed around a bit then someone comes in to give him a power-up, the method of beating the enemy, or just plain beating down the enemy for him. The exceptions were first golem fight which was pretty stupid when you get right down to it since Reiraku Byakuya was defined as energy destroying yet somehow it powers up when shot at by ShenLong? Or does it get faster even though speed was not needed at all against that hulking monstrosity? The Laura battle was weird in the way that the security force could've handled it but Ichika finally decided to up and fight it, culminating in a showdown that felt seriously underwhelming since everybody else in an IS, including Charlotte, implied they could take it down anyway. Seriously, look at how calm everyone was taking it. And again, the giant string of manga cliches that were all imprinted as climax moments that made up that scene just made it bland.

The biggest problem with Ichika is that he is too bland. The boy hasn't a personality in any sense of the word. The closest I could characterize him would be as the senile grandpa everyone likes even though he can barely tell his own son from his daughter. Give him any form of badass, or smatness actually feels extremely out of character. Someone has to lead him in to something at all times. When he does exhibit some weird knowledge like when he was fighting Tate, then things just feel really really weird.

[Oslight]

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

But Ichika didn't bleed. He didn't learn. He just gets pushed around a bit then someone comes in to give him a power-up, the method of beating the enemy, or just plain beating down the enemy for him. The exceptions were first golem fight which was pretty stupid when you get right down to it since Reiraku Byakuya was defined as energy destroying yet somehow it powers up when shot at by ShenLong? Or does it get faster even though speed was not needed at all against that hulking monstrosity? The Laura battle was weird in the way that the security force could've handled it but Ichika finally decided to up and fight it, culminating in a showdown that felt seriously underwhelming since everybody else in an IS, including Charlotte, implied they could take it down anyway. Seriously, look at how calm everyone was taking it. And again, the giant string of manga cliches that were all imprinted as climax moments that made up that scene just made it bland.

The biggest problem with Ichika is that he is too bland. The boy hasn't a personality in any sense of the word. The closest I could characterize him would be as the senile grandpa everyone likes even though he can barely tell his own son from his daughter. Give him any form of badass, or smatness actually feels extremely out of character. Someone has to lead him in to something at all times. When he does exhibit some weird knowledge like when he was fighting Tate, then things just feel really really weird.

Well, that's true I guess, but then again, nobody did really develop much. They fell in love, that's about it. Some of them just did a complete 180 within a few chapters of their introduction and then it kinda stopped there...

[I'm-here-present]

But Ichika didn't bleed. He didn't learn. He just gets pushed around a bit then someone comes in to give him a power-up, the method of beating the enemy, or just plain beating down the enemy for him. The exceptions were first golem fight which was pretty stupid when you get right down to it since Reiraku Byakuya was defined as energy destroying yet somehow it powers up when shot at by ShenLong? Or does it get faster even though speed was not needed at all against that hulking monstrosity? The Laura battle was weird in the way that the security force could've handled it but Ichika finally decided to up and fight it, culminating in a showdown that felt seriously underwhelming since everybody else in an IS, including Charlotte, implied they could take it down anyway. Seriously, look at how calm everyone was taking it. And again, the giant string of manga cliches that were all imprinted as climax moments that made up that scene just made it bland.

The biggest problem with Ichika is that he is too bland. The boy hasn't a personality in any sense of the word. The closest I could characterize him would be as the senile grandpa everyone likes even though he can barely tell his own son from his daughter. Give him any form of badass, or smatness actually feels extremely out of character. Someone has to lead him in to something at all times. When he does exhibit some weird knowledge like when he was fighting Tate, then things just feel really really weird.

This is not anymore directed to Ichika... it feels like your sniping Izuru already.