Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 09 Discussion / Poll

[Vicious108]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

Your welcome. I think i still love Felt more than Rei. Because Rei would rather hang around with a swine like Shinji than a cool bastard like Lockon.

Haha oh wow. Well, not liked I expected any different from someone who's only watching Gundam 00 "for the lolis and the cool bishies".

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

@Endless_Twilight: Don't know, but I have a different feeling when I see Rei compare to when I see Felt. Felt has "not interested in anything except work" attitude, while Rei is more like cyborg type, doing her work is her only life's meaning. Hope you understand what I mean.

Yeah, I see what you mean. But in the end Felt still gives me another-Rei-clone's vibes. And I doubt her character will ever go anywhere else, but eh.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young

My difference with 4tran is that (I think) he's arguing that visual detection should be used/should have detected the Ptolomy,

Oh, not at all. I'm just pointing out that Celestial Being shouldn't have been so blase about the possibility. Staying so close to the orbital elevator seems to be more risk than is warranted.

[kari-no-sugata]

Random thought...

Exia clearly has a stealth mode. I wonder what limitations it has. If he could use it in space, even if it means can only go in a straight line (perhaps using GN Drive for movement would disrupt the stealth?) it would be useful right now. Sneak up on the HRL MS who are keeping at long distance, come out of stealth and slice a few up, then go back into stealth. Meanwhile, in the confusion, Lockon would likely have better luck at sniping.

A another random thought, this time about Tieria - when we first see him in ep 1, he's floating in some kind of computer room, which we haven't seen since. Maybe Virtue has some kind of mode which allows it to try to hack other MS, or something like that. In that "room", Tieria is in his space suit - either he's suited up because the ship is in mission mode... or he's in Virtue.

[kari-no-sugata]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Oh, not at all. I'm just pointing out that Celestial Being shouldn't have been so blase about the possibility. Staying so close to the orbital elevator seems to be more risk than is warranted.

Particularly when doing maintenance which increases vulnerability...

[idofgrahf]

I personally think they rely too much on their techno edge. I mean its evident in this ep that most of the crew of Ptolomy have never been shot at before, what kind of pro screams for her life when the enemy has just begun their attack? I can't believe the stratagest fell for such an obvious trick. What would the HLR gain by simply sinking the Ptolomy? Nothing much, but they will gain much from aquiring their MS so it should have been obvious that the enemy would lure the MS out for capture, yet she sent them as decoys anyways.

As a side note, it seems that this ep shows somewhat that the CB exists because the major powers allow them to. The HLR, using the same stratgey could have sent hundreds of suits for the caputre mission (instead of simply 36) and if nothing else, sink the Ptolomy (kamkazi it if need be), same with Union or AEU. It looks like the major powers allow CB to exist so they can try and gain their technology, if they wanted to destroy them, all they need to do is bury a nuke in some remote village, start a conflict at the place, lure the suits there and detonate it, problem solved, or simply over power them with sheer numbers (like in Gundam wing endless wartz, the Gundams simply can't kill them all), I'm willing to bet that the three powers with its vast resources and production ability could make MS's faster than they lose them (like world war II America or Russia, German jet fighters are much better but the Americans and Soviets simply just keep on coming)

[Demongod86]

2 things wrong with your statement, ido...

1) In Endless Waltz, the reason the gundams couldn't "kill 'em all" is that they were going for disabling rather than wholesale destruction. If they were going for all out destruction, Zechs would have cleaned the place up easily with the mega cannon.

2) The German jet fighter didn't come online fast enough. The P-51 however, an American plane, was probably the best warbird bar Me-262 (the jet).

That said, for her age, Sumeragi is doing quite a good job as tactical commander. It seems she only predicted incorrectly once before which was why she may have left the Union.

[idofgrahf]

And the supped up Flapp is comprable in speed to the Gundams, the Union seem to be able to supped them up pretty damn fast. The Germans certainly had more than 4 Me-262's though.

Secondly, so far only the virtue has anything remotly close to wing 0's mega cannon and if I remmber correctly, the Zero was falling apart after repeated uses. Super weapons like that always seem to have a draw back in Gundam shows wether it be stress, power requirements or some other factor and virtues weapon has yet to demonstrate it can annhilate a massive space colony like zero's can. Assume that Virtue can fire say five shots and they are equal to zero's power, (I forgot how many shots zero fired before it kinda broke apart) that simply means you wipped out five waves, then your over heated or broke apart, easy picking.

As for Sumeragi, perdicting wrong once is more than enough when you don't have a whole lot of to begin with. Her problem was that she think the enemy commander was an idiot and would follow her rather shallow plan that even I can see through (before she explained her actions). To be fair her opponent is an excellent strategest but that really doesn't excuse her from anything.

[Cherudim Arche]

I would assume virtue has more than five shots considering how long it lasted in other mission. Isn't that why the gundams have constant maintaince before starting another mission. It can be falling apart, but right now the weapon isn't broken yet.

[idofgrahf]

but its fire power compared to the zero is rather underwhelming, plus I mean five continous shots ( which is why the zero fell apart, many shots over long periods doesn't seem to affect it at all.) This though imo is a good thing, don't need them more over powered then they already are or else the show would be another spam fest).

I must say I'm confused as to why the Ptolomy needs to recharge from the gundam, why don't they simply install the solar furnace on the ship too?

[Cherudim Arche]

I think you should switch the comparison, Virtue is nowhere near destructive enough to say wing zero or wing gundam even with its bazooka.

It can probably generate more power, but it has to amplify more so it takes longer for it. Another option is that it can drain quite easily, but there is a cap limit which allows for standard usage.

[idofgrahf]

I think my comparsion is valid, I'm simply saying that Zero's engery weapon is much more destructive than Virtue's.

As for generator, its impossible to tell who can do more but if the advancement of tecnology is to be compared than AC's tech should be deemed far superior, all AC MS's run on ultra compact fusion reactors, this does not seem to be the case for AD as the destroyed MS's doesn't explode like a nuke. seeing as they are using solar engery instead of Fusion which is way cheaper (no elevators or massive ring of solar collectors, and more effiecent, literaly the power of the Sun in the palm of one's hand) certain countries seem to be in engery crisis in Gundam 00, I don't think AC had such a problem. As a point of reference, standard UC MS (non gundam type) has a fusion reactor of roughly 2000KW, conversion ratio from KW-Kiloton being 1=1 that mobile suit (in UC as normal nuclear power plant don't explode, they melt) will explode with the force of a 2 mega ton nuclear bomb. Fourtantly, (for the enviorment) AD mobile suits don't seem to have that type of technology (for their power source anyways)

[wingdarkness]

Checked out the subbed ep last night before bed, and read this entire thread thru-out the workday (And man it's hard pretending your reading reports and $hit and you're actually reading little squares where people talk about supporting Lolickon's 24-14 relationship--Suffice it to say I can't leave those pages just lying around when I print it out^^)...Anyways on to my thoughts inwhich I know atleast 33% of this forum pines for, lmao...

Well after last week's debacle, you can either limp back up or get the hell up and start running...This episode jumped outta the starting block and executed it's plan with loads of nuance and realistic feel...I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of eps from now Tieria has that guy who wants to ask Christina to the Gundam sock-hop tied up and beaten at gun-point for not doing his job properly...If he did though we wouldn't have gotten such a great episode filled with strategy and intrigue...For some reason midway thru the ep I actually thought about how 4tran would view this ep and I was gonna open up a can of debating whoopa$$$$ on him if he didn't appreciate the level of coherent military strategy and prowess...Good to see he did for the most part^^...

The thing I really loved about this episode was that it all seemed so real-time...Not a bevy of cuts, just one problematic situation, with depth...People talking out load, figuring things out on the fly and trying to point-counter-point one another...Thought the HRL's plan of attack throwing a million 24th century I-pod mini-speakers into space and waiting for one of them to DOA on GN-dust was brilliant...Now I know space is S---P---A---C---E, but they gotta fill a 23 minute anime and the Ptolemy needed to be in the vicinity of Smirnov's mini-speakers for it all to work out...

Moving on I thought Sumeragi's plan of attack was presented fine given the situation (where they are purposely using this scenario to present Smirnov as a greater strategist--which he should be based on war-experience and age)...Smirnov made the right decision in targeting the Gundams because that was the only way he could potentially isolate the Gundams....If he targets or destroys the ship then the Gundams can either unite or simply run back to earth...Crucial loses obviously but they could regroup...This was the best plan IMO (Eventhough Setsuna sniffed it out)...The only change I would have made would have been to keep Virtue's mini-Genesis powered a$$ close to the ship for long range ownage (Obviously this screws up Sumeragi's plans to have Tieria wipe them out from behind, but I would have put the ship as priority)...

Now to the taboo stuff^^...Lolickon huh? He did seem to be getting his Char-on, but I'd like to think he was simply being supportive and encouraging...Don't think this will progress in a Lalah, Haman, or Quess fashion, but a majority of us here are freaks who wouldn't mind seeing it just because...And speaking of freaks when did Sanji pluck that delicious cherry? Did I miss something? I guess he became a man like Kira did over the 4 month break...I really like that scene with him and the moms...Don't worry Sanji haters, like Katz, Beltochika, Oliver, and other seemingly useless characters, he'll do something of note, JUST YOU WAIT...

Anyways I'll have to rate this ep with a 9 so fine, because it really impressed me in it's overall quality (Remember you gotta rate the animation too sometimes and god-damn that HQ raw owns)...The only thing preventing a 10 was the lack of Graham who seems to be lost in the plans right now ...But good rebound from last week, and next week's ep seems to be a game winning shot from that rebound... "Hallelujah, my brutha, Hallalujah..."^^...


BTW Lolickon has a twin brother?? Uh-oh, I smell a replacment player or maybe that's just Double-Mint gum ...

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata

Exia clearly has a stealth mode. I wonder what limitations it has. If he could use it in space, even if it means can only go in a straight line (perhaps using GN Drive for movement would disrupt the stealth?) it would be useful right now. Sneak up on the HRL MS who are keeping at long distance, come out of stealth and slice a few up, then go back into stealth. Meanwhile, in the confusion, Lockon would likely have better luck at sniping.

From its appearance, the stealth system only works when Exia is either powered down or minimally powered.

Originally Posted by idofgrahf

What would the HLR gain by simply sinking the Ptolomy?

Plenty. For starters, it would separate the Gundams from all of their support; making it that much easier to round them up. It'd be even better if they crippled Ptolemaios rather than destroying it.

Originally Posted by idofgrahf

The HLR, using the same stratgey could have sent hundreds of suits for the caputre mission (instead of simply 36)

Not necessarily. While the HRL gave lots of resources to Sergei's mission, it wasn't unlimited. Besides, if they had deemed that hundreds of mobile suits were required for such a mission, they wouldn't have assigned a mere Lt. Colonel to the task.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

If he targets or destroys the ship then the Gundams can either unite or simply run back to earth...

Actually, that option is always open to them.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

And speaking of freaks when did Sanji pluck that delicious cherry? Did I miss something?

Yes you did. Sanji and Louise haven't had sex yet. If they had, his reaction would have been quite difference.

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

Originally Posted by Endless Twilight

Haha oh wow. Well, not liked I expected any different from someone who's only watching Gundam 00 "for the lolis and the cool bishies".



Yeah, I see what you mean. But in the end Felt still gives me another-Rei-clone's vibes. And I doubt her character will ever go anywhere else, but eh.

Yeah, thats what animes are about if u didint noticed. Im not watching an anime with old wrinkled men fighting like some old world war 2. Infact middle age men like this anime are more rarity than u can think off. The most probable reason why animes use a lot of boys as protagonist is probrably because a lot of the middle age men eventually died in the wars and basically their whole idealistic behavious would evolve into immature shounen mentality injected in their minds over the years. Its time they erect the ideas of manliness once again.

Felt is better than Rei, i hate it as if Rei type characters have only compatibility with useless characters like Shinji, as if Tsundere girls can only hook up with useless men.

=( don't say that, the more you support that, the more fights get crappier and crappier.

Well the fights were already getting crappier, thats why i thought of watching it for the lolis. From the start, i thought the action was only so so.The fights were too clean, Exia sliced to all the grunts too cleanly, there wasnt any fancy moves, just really slow clean slices but no real cuts and slash. Theres no spinning kick, no shooting from upside down,no melting metal, no blood, no fancy stuffs. Maybe the anime is just starting and they dont want to get to details now

Well , animes are getting really lame in action this days,and there isnt many people who are creative in making action scenes anymore, people this days demand more romance and sexual appeal. This days people discourage violence or anything that depict violence and encourage adultry by any means possible.Which is sad really.

[Cherudim Arche]

If there going to make it look like fight, at least it should seem like it even if it doesn't.

That happens in anime a lot, so it isn't that unusual, unless you mean the way people pay attention to it.

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

The gundams should have more than one weapon. Like Strike could use machine gun, beam saber,shield, beam riffle and missles. Multi purpose= more options for action.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver

Well , animes are getting really lame in action this days,and there isnt many people who are creative in making action scenes anymore, people this days demand more romance and sexual appeal. This days people discourage violence or anything that depict violence and encourage adultry by any means possible.Which is sad really.

Are you sure the problem is from them, not from you?

The gundams should have more than one weapon. Like Strike could use machine gun, beam saber,shield, beam riffle and missles.

Tell me, what do you know about those Gundam ? Exia has pretty much everything you mention above, except the missiles (oh, but Dynames fills this place).

[wingdarkness]

Damn-it 4tran, don't leave me in suspence...You know this ep had some decent integrity in the war stratagem department...And don't answer my post with another question...Just say something along the lines of "Yeah Ok I was pretty satisfied with the tactical elements used in this ep.." ^^...I mean you've complained about the lack of this to the heavens, I'd atleast expect a more gleeful rebuttal about some really good nuanced combat strategy (for Gundam that is)...

Oh and yeah I knew Sanji didn't get none, just being jovial there, but then again his reaction wouldn't be that unexpected considering her moms was right there ^o^...

[Honey_and_Cleaver]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

Are you sure the problem is from them, not from you?


Tell me, what do you know about those Gundam ? Exia has pretty much everything you mention above, except the missiles (oh, but Dynames fills this place).

Well i think there are more unmentioned problems.

Exia? I see unused 7 swords compare to the number of beam sabers infinite justice uses. I see plain moves of just simple cuts but no real cool moves i havent seen. It uses one sword most of the time and it can even shoot properly. Its slow, it cant move fast compare to Impulse can do. So yup, i know pretty much about gundams.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Damn-it 4tran, don't leave me in suspence...You know this ep had some decent integrity in the war stratagem department...

I already gave my impressions in my first post in this thread:
"Well, well. This may prove to be the best episode of Gundam 00 so far. It's certainly the best written, and I'm rather surprised at the quality of the choreography. The combat in this episode is possibly the best since episode 29 of Seed."