Macross Delta - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Spoiler:

Valan reports the situation that the mind control operation of Windermere isn't ready yet. One of the brass asks Valans the status of the Fold Jamming Cannon. One of them comments them comments there wouldn't be a war if the plan worked 7 years ago. We don't know what that plan was yet so no jumping the gun on that.

Oh come on. Put two and two together. Also, he doesn't say "there wouldn't be a war", he says "it wouldn't have come to this", "this" having a pretty wide range of meaning. (He also doesn't say that the "mind control operation" isn't ready, btw, he's just noting that the power of Heinz's song is not as strong as NUNS expected, and that Windermere still haven't completely recovered the power of the ruins. Which is in line with what the Epsilon guy said to Gramia & Roid.)

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Oh come on. Put two and two together. Also, he doesn't say "there wouldn't be a war", he says "it wouldn't have come to this", "this" having a pretty wide range of meaning. (He also doesn't say that the "mind control operation" isn't ready, btw, he's just noting that the power of Heinz's song is not as strong as NUNS expected, and that Windermere still haven't completely recovered the power of the ruins. Which is in line with what the Epsilon guy said to Gramia & Roid.)

You are jumping on the gun when we do not have context of it yet. It is speculation on your part not confirmation as you say.

I pretty much summarized Windermere is not ready yet. So why are you disagreeing on that?

Also you never mentioned that bit of NUNS trump card against Windermere's plan.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

You are jumping on the gun when we do not have context of it yet.

I take it you skipped last week's episode...?

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

I pretty much summarized Windermere is not ready yet. So why are you disagreeing on that?

Because you're adding something that the character doesn't say...

Anyway I have to sleep now, I guess you'll have the subs by the time I wake up.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

I take it you skipped last week's episode...?

Valan trying to kill the Sigur Valens while getting valuable data at the same time?

Again you are speculating as there is confirmation at all of your theory.

That is why I said we need context as their mentioning of a plan 7 years ago we don't know what it is.

[deadite]

I'd love it if in Hayate fashion, Bogue takes Keith's Draken.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Subs are going to be delayed while everyone crawls back from AX.

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by deadite

I'd love it if in Hayate fashion, Bogue takes Keith's Draken.

A bloodthirsty type fellow who would love nothing more than to kill Hayate and the Walkure in a customized Draken (belonging to his idol)... that sounds like a recipe for disaster

[deadite]

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

A bloodthirsty type fellow who would love nothing more than to kill Hayate and the Walkure in a customized Draken (belonging to his idol)... that sounds like a recipe for disaster

Judging from what we see of him in the manga and what he's like around friends, Bogue isn't really bloodthirsty. Just a punk kid trying to prove something after whatever happened 7 years ago. Once he is shown the real enemy he will direct his rage to that. I like Bogue because strip the war and propaganda he is a huge dork and basically a male Freyja.

[Thousand Mistress]

Originally Posted by deadite

Judging from what we see of him in the manga and what he's like around friends, Bogue isn't really bloodthirsty. Just a punk kid trying to prove something after whatever happened 7 years ago. Once he is shown the real enemy he will direct his rage to that. I like Bogue because strip the war and propaganda he is a huge dork and basically a male Freyja.

Adding to this, Bogue is also a fan of Keith, he idolizes him. So he would probably try to get Keith's honor back but in a better way. I do hope he doesn't get too fired up, though.

Another thing about that NUNS revelation, as much as I expected it, it could also be them who did other stuff to Windermereans that made them hate humans and Walkure. Walkure especially, cause look at Bogue.

Wonder what was his reason for hating the group. Maybe we can see that soon.

In all honesty the thing about Hayate x Mirage is making me laugh (in disappointment). I love Mirage and Freyja both, but even in this episode looks like Hayate doesn't even care about anything including Mirage's chest. He's that dense. I'm pretty sure he'll be crushing on either of them but because he's all about the battle and the war he's going to brush it off.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Oh come on. Put two and two together. Also, he doesn't say "there wouldn't be a war", he says "it wouldn't have come to this", "this" having a pretty wide range of meaning. (He also doesn't say that the "mind control operation" isn't ready, btw, he's just noting that the power of Heinz's song is not as strong as NUNS expected, and that Windermere still haven't completely recovered the power of the ruins. Which is in line with what the Epsilon guy said to Gramia & Roid.)

You have my respect for trying to correct his biased reaching to defend his precious obviously evil villain stereotypes. But I wouldn't bother, honestly. I'm sure if that guy came out and bombed all the cluster laughing like a raving madman, he would still think it was a good thing and he was such noble guy for taking that decision.

Let's talk about something nice, like Freyja. I loved how she saved those kitties. Or the ending. Thoughts about it? I prefer ED 1, but it's not bad. I'm anxious to see the new opening.

Originally Posted by deadite

I'd love it if in Hayate fashion, Bogue takes Keith's Draken.

Bogue idealizes Keith. So I wouldn't be surprised if he does while Keith recovers.

Speaking of Keith, do you think he'll eventually join Chaos? He's right after Mikumo in the new ending (maybe if this happens, at some point, Arad becomes Kaname's pilot while Keith becomes Mikumo's? Beyond triangle and shipping, I think the Walkures were near their pilots and protectors. Sure Mirage is officially Makina's but she's taken up to protect Freyja too so Hayate could free, which leaves Chuck with Makina and Reina both? Messer and Arad show up before Kaname, as former and current/future pilot?). I never thought of the possibility with him really, but after that ending, I'm not sure. They need a fifth pilot and the Windermere manga reveals Roid easily surpassed Keith (was he faking when he lost?). Whatever happens, I'm sure Keith's change of heart will have to be with Heinz. He actually loves his brother, despite his aloof behavior and he fights to protect him. Mikumo and the girls of Walkure also seem to want to keep him safe for some reason.

Originally Posted by Thousand Mistress

He's that dense. I'm pretty sure he'll be crushing on either of them but because he's all about the battle and the war he's going to brush it off.

That's a good thing. I don't think he's dense, he's just not interested. He sees Mirage as his teacher, rather than a woman, IMO. Unless something dramatically changes his perception, she'll continue to be "instructor Mirage."

[magnuskn]

Hm, I see Thess has gone to stereotyping the anti-Windbag people as all declaring the NUNS guy as not evil. Which I think nobody has done, most of us just said to wait and see if he would actually do something evil instead of just having a typical look.

Now that the dude has clearly been identified as being a bad guy, has anybody said that he is not really evil? I don't think so.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Now that the dude has clearly been identified as being a bad guy, has anybody said that he is not really evil? I don't think so.

"They" is ReddyRedWolf. I don't know the gender, so I said "they" instead of he or she. Courtesy. I'm sorry you felt included, I wasn't talking about you.

Edit: There I changed it so to avoid confusion. I apologize on advance if I got the gender wrong.

[magnuskn]

I'm not sure where you are seeing Reddy saying that the NUNS dude is one of the good guys?

Then again I have not seen the episode yet, with or without subs. I don't know how good anybody but Tak and karice here talks Japanese, so I guess I have to refrain from giving my own take on what I think of whatever the NUNS people said this episode until I have seen the ep with subs.

[Saint X]

NUNS fault aside, it's still as clear as high quality fold crystal that Windemere is still liable, answerable and responsible for their actions in doing all of that. This does not vindicate their actions not one bit.

Sure, you been given a legitimate cause of grievance, but you basically don't go start wars, conquer planets and mind control people because of it. They resorted to their ancient way of dealing with diplomatic problems instead of the NUN way- like advertising that a NUNxit would be more beneficial to the cluster's planets.

Also the "NUNS Cabal" that we see is probably the same people that most of the NUN-based villains of prior macross games are. Remember that with a loose enough decentralization, you can effectively turn a federation into a series of kingdoms. These people have real, specific interests that mirror those of past NUN unification masterminds.

[Incest Emblem]

With this episode, I am pretty sure I know how the Hayate romance is going to resolve.

Spoiler for Hayate romance speculation:

This episode, we got a heavy dose of demonstration that Hayate is not interested in girls.

I think Delta is going for a Max parallel with Hayate. Although there are certainly differences between the 2, it seems that they have significant similarities as well: They are both laid back but highly talented, and neither seems self-conscious of his talents. And they are both the ace in their squad.

Then there was Mirage's reference to Max and Milia--the bridge between the Zentradi and the humans in the First Contact War. We have a similar situation here: a war between 2 culturally different pseudo-descendants of the Protoculture, 1 warlike and austere, the other culturally rich and diverse. And it seems songs will be a significant component of their reaching out to each other. And it leaves 2 members of their race joining together to show that they can get along at on a personal level.

Even the events are playing out similarly to the Max and Milia story: Milia, the ace of the Zentradi military, sortied with her squad and entered battle with the protagonists. In this battle, the acknowledged ace of the humans, Roy, suffered mortal wounds and died, but he left his skeleton themed fighter.

And Milia was shot down in turn by a skilled pilot--though not as widely recognized an ace--on the human side. Later, furious, she would infiltrate the protagonists' warship and meet the ace who bested her in person.

It is obvious where Delta is going. Keith will wake up and, finding Roid firmly in control, will leave to infiltrate the Elysion. There, he will confront Hayate, and the 2 will fall in love. Delta is obviously going for Hayate x Keith. That's why he did not react at all from the interaction with Mirage this episode, and he only has friendly teasing with Freya.

[CriiGV]

Originally Posted by Incest Emblem

With this episode, I am pretty sure I know how the Hayate romance is going to resolve.

Spoiler for Hayate romance speculation:

This episode, we got a heavy dose of demonstration that Hayate is not interested in girls.

I think Delta is going for a Max parallel with Hayate. Although there are certainly differences between the 2, it seems that they have significant similarities as well: They are both laid back but highly talented, and neither seems self-conscious of his talents. And they are both the ace in their squad.

Then there was Mirage's reference to Max and Milia--the bridge between the Zentradi and the humans in the First Contact War. We have a similar situation here: a war between 2 culturally different pseudo-descendants of the Protoculture, 1 warlike and austere, the other culturally rich and diverse. And it seems songs will be a significant component of their reaching out to each other. And it leaves 2 members of their race joining together to show that they can get along at on a personal level.

Even the events are playing out similarly to the Max and Milia story: Milia, the ace of the Zentradi military, sortied with her squad and entered battle with the protagonists. In this battle, the acknowledged ace of the humans, Roy, suffered mortal wounds and died, but he left his skeleton themed fighter.

Then, later, Milia entered battle with the protagonists again and was shot down in turn. Later, furious, she would infiltrate the protagonists' warship and meet the ace who bested her in person.

It is obvious where Delta is going. Keith will wake up and, finding Roid firmly in control, will leave to infiltrate the Elysion. There, he will confront Hayate, and the 2 will fall in love. Delta is obviously going for Hayate x Keith. That's why he did not react at all from the interaction with Mirage this episode, and he only has friendly teasing with Freya.

I SUPPORT THIS THEORY 100%

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by deadite

Judging from what we see of him in the manga and what he's like around friends, Bogue isn't really bloodthirsty. Just a punk kid trying to prove something after whatever happened 7 years ago. Once he is shown the real enemy he will direct his rage to that. I like Bogue because strip the war and propaganda he is a huge dork and basically a male Freyja.

I have trouble seeing that after he tried to murder Walkure about three or four times by now.

In regards to Hayate's personality, I came to an epiphany on the way back home from my night shift: This show is to Macross Frontier as Macross 7 was to SDFM. Hence Hayate is more akin to Basara than to Alto. Ergo sum, he is interested in pursueing his personal dream (flying, the wind), is almost asexual in his disinterest in the other sex and his inner thoughts are being kept a deliberate enigma.

[Father Hentai]

Let's wait and see if there will be no love triangle and it is a quadruple (if he tends to the sky).

I still find it too early to ship into any triangle direction.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Valan trying to kill the Sigur Valens while getting valuable data at the same time?

You mean the guy not even bothering to check if the blast got the Sigur Valens just gathering the data and getting the hell out.

As it seems the subs aren't out yet, let me give you a rough summary of the scene:
Valan: Fleet successfully evacuated, yay.
NUNS Higher-up 1: You do realize Windermere pretty much won this one, right?
Valan: Well yeah, the cluster is now enveloped in a special fold sound field that facilitates Var and mind control. But, hey, their song is not as powerful as we thought, it seems they haven't fully recovered the ruins' abilities yet, so that's good.
NUNS Higher-up 2: And what about fold jamming?
Valan: It's the first time with a wind singer, we have no idea how well it would work.
NUNS Higher-up 3: If only our plan 7 years ago had succeeded, all this wouldn't have happened...
NUNS Higher-up 2: No use crying about it now. Get on with your thing.
Valan: Okay.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Again you are speculating as there is confirmation at all of your theory.

That is why I said we need context as their mentioning of a plan 7 years ago we don't know what it is.

If you really can't connect the dots that's not really my fault...

Originally Posted by Thess

Let's talk about something nice, like Freyja. I loved how she saved those kitties. Or the ending. Thoughts about it? I prefer ED 1, but it's not bad. I'm anxious to see the new opening.

I was so happy to see at least some kitties! (And that they're OK outside water.) But I really hope all of them were fine. If we don't see the scarred tomcat in the end when they (inevitably) return to Ragna I'll be devastated.
I like the ending! The song is catchy and the visuals are interesting (shipping theories here we come! )

Originally Posted by Incest Emblem

With this episode, I am pretty sure I know how the Hayate romance is going to resolve.

...

Spoiler for Hayate romance speculation:

Delta is obviously going for Hayate x Keith.

I'm sorry but I don't agree.

Spoiler for romance:

After having listened to the radio show, it's most definitely Roid x Hayate.

[Annorax]

So what did Hayate's dad? Military with a medic mom??? Both died during WIndamere independance war?
Speaking of which, accroding to the internet, the place Hayate's dad was in sounds like Ouroboros(Blue sea hot desret cold snowly place?)