Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Rosalena]

So much has been said about the sexual elements in this episode that I don't think it's worth my adding anything else

I would, however, like to know what everyone thinks about Shun releasing those three balls (orbs?) during his conversation with Saki. It struck me that he might have done so in order to prevent her from coming any closer to him, but that theory was soundly debunked when his dog leapt into his arms. HandofFate brought this issue as well, but I think the ad nauseam discussion about the sexual relations between the characters kind of overshadowed it.

So, thoughts?

[Gravitas Free Zone]

I also was thinking that the balls were a physical barrier until the dog showed up. So it is probably a symbolic barrier; Saki had a definite reaction to seeing them.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

I also was thinking that the balls were a physical barrier until the dog showed up. So it is probably a symbolic barrier; Saki had a definite reaction to seeing them.

I could just imagine Saki's troubled face if anything happens to Shun in while everyone especially her friends (Maria?) are shocked for her...

[SagaraSouske]

I think the 3 balls may serve as a symbolic barrier for PK users. It may represent the person's intent to be alone and not be bothered.

[Rosalena]

A symbolic barrier . . . that sounds reasonable. Saki was utterly shocked when she saw them so they were obviously something that didn't need any explanation. I was half-expecting something terrible to happen to the dog when he approached Shun so I'm glad that didn't happen.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

I think the 3 balls may serve as a symbolic barrier for PK users. It may represent the person's intent to be alone and not be bothered.

That would make Saki's heart ache more and more!!!!

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

But this is not Naked Lunch (oh god, I can just imagine... xD). This is a fantasy novel about future humans with supernatural abilities vs. mutant rat-people, which in the US would be likely published as YA. And I still say the anime pretty much does the best it can with a source material that is not really suited to being adapted into a visual medium (being very narration-heavy). It's not perfect, obviously, and there are some questionable decisions (such as not mentioning the strict rules about male-female sex yet), but these are nowhere near as crippling flaws as you try to present them. The anime is still very interesting and complicated - honestly, would you be even bothered if you hadn't looked up info about the novel, or hadn't read the manga and then expected to see the same thing in the anime?

I brought up Naked Lunch because of its controversial setting as well as becauseit was adapted into a film, but unlike Shin Sekai yori with excellent direction. Another example would be Kubrik's Lolita and Space Odessy... the later was even better than the original, but for anime who didn't suffer from an adaption for kids you can look into Koi Kaze, as well as several other original anime (Texhmolyze, SE:Laine, etc).

Adaption of a written medium particularly a novel, are bound to change things around, but the least I expect is to keep the theme intact, otherwise, I see no point into adapting, it's better to try an original so the original plot won't bind the writers

In between, what is YA

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

The Saki/Satoru relationship as presented in the anime was the same as it was presented in the novel. I really don't understand why you keep insisting that the anime ruined relationships among the group of friends when it didn't. Nobody had wild monkey sex that the anime cut because they wanted to make it family friendly or whatever (you say that after this episode? ). The lone reference that the anime didn't include (likely because it would've been ridiculously awkward, also: first person narration) was just that: a reference that was more or less covered by the library critter's explanation about the bonobo thing, and then the scene with Satoru and Saki. Nobody made huge confessions that the anime cut because whatever. The anime supplied enough background info to understand what was going on without going into exposition mode for long minutes in every single episode. And so on and so on.

The anime constantly skips (and more often tone down) little but important events, leaving what else happened and said between Satoru/Saki, the same sex relationships could in theory be deducted by the background couples during the beginning of the episode, but the way it was animated none noticed.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Was it perfect? No. The writing obviously had problems. But that's a writing problem and not an adaptation problem. Read the novel and see for yourself. And forget the manga, the manga basically said "to hell with the source material, we need some more hot lesbo action here" and that's what it did. The first arc of the anime was pretty faithful to the novel, obviously not 100% faithful, for many reasons including time constraints and the problems of adapting first person narration into a visual medium, but it was very far from being an adaptation disaster.

OK, granted, I am pretty sure that I have dropped a lot of worse disasters, but after the first four episodes, I expected a lot more.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

But you're missing the point. These were all regulated environments. It's not like they were living in a gay paradise (well, I suppose it depends on the individual...). Teacher-student. Patron-protégé. Master-apprentice. Nenja-wakashuu. etc. etc. There's a pattern here. There's a reason, a very widespread reason, why Cicero didn't mock Marcus Antonius by saying that he had homosexual relationships but by saying that he was the "passive" partner in said relationships.

This a large discussion, and you're right this isn't the thread to discuss it... but I think if we both rephrase our opinion, we would agree for the most part

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

This depends on the culture so much it's not even funny.

And this is getting off topic so I'll just stop here.

Just in case, I am not supporting whether it's right or wrong... I just stated a trend prevalent before the sexual liberation of women. Personally, I consider it unfair, but objectification of women served certain social goals, and was effective in doing so.

Anyway, that's it from me on OT-extension fueled by Shin Sekai yori social engineering... it would be great if we could discuss these topics, but the mods don't approve

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

In between, what is YA

Young Adult novel imprint. Little, Brown Books for Young Readers comes to mind.

And yeah, now that I think about it this novel does feel like a YA book, although in Japan is published as an adult novel.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

I brought up Naked Lunch because of its controversial setting as well as becauseit was adapted into a film, but unlike Shin Sekai yori with excellent direction. Another example would be Kubrik's Lolita and Space Odessy...

Except Shinsekai yori's setting is nowhere near as controversial as Naked Lunch, the two books were written for different audiences with different purposes and goals, etc. etc.... Never mind Lolita (wut) or 2001 (the 2001 novel was written along with the movie's development, it's technically an alternate retelling of the same material, and it was published after the movie was released), seriously, you're comparing apples and oranges here. Shinsekai yori is a fantasy novel with some creatively utopian/dystopian (? you decide) setting. Mutant rat people, for heaven's sake.

Originally Posted by Malkuth

Ithe later was even better than the original, but for anime who didn't suffer from an adaption for kids you can look into Koi Kaze, as well as several other original anime (Texhmolyze, SE:Laine, etc).

*throws hands up*

I give up. If you seriously think that an anime that airs at fuck knows what time at night and has just aired an episode featuring homosexual intimacy which, sadly, is still generally considered not suitable for kids, is an "adaptation for kids" and is ruining the novel's "theme" just because it doesn't show explicit sex scenes that were already pretty gratuituous in the source material, there's no point in having this discussion.

Not to mention that you're basing your complaints on second- and third-hand information and your own imagination. Read the novel, really. (Just a note: the novel's theme is not "our happy bonobo relationships, by Saki and friends"... )

As for YA, what Kazu-kun said, here's the wikipedia entry.

[NoemiChan]

This is why we have a Novel, Anime and Manga Thread Discussion to discuss things separately unless we have a Comparison Thread.

Most likely adaptations are to be different from the original since we have a wider range of viewers. Both kids and adults.

Funny, Eroges are made for adults became shows for kids and we don't hear any complaints like "Where are the sex scenes?"

[Cosmic Eagle]

So that's where those mutated creatures come from....PK warping as expected...


Also...so much noise over the BL and yuri....come on...where's all the expected fujoshi and fudanshi love? I'd expect them to have flooded this place by now with their shipping fantasies

Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator

what a creepy episode especially that teacher getting a better look up marias skirt....creepy

I actually loled there to be honest

OH THE GREAT MIGHTIEST ONE IS HERE

*proceeds to peek up Maria's skirt*

*Get's utterly spooked by Shun's latent.......threat. Runs away with unseemly haste*

Best unintended message ever

and the relationship stuff was really simplistic anyway, in the sense that there was no nuance or subtlety at all.

It's not supposed to be....

It's simple mutual affection for each other. Not purely sexual, but more of base romantic.

It's the same as what you see in many other SF works where humankind is in pretty much a more reduced state of development

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Also...so much noise over the BL and yuri....come on...where's all the expected fujoshi and fudanshi love? I'd expect them to have flooded this place by now with their shipping fantasies

See, this is the problem with me - here's a show where a BL ship would've had the chance to sail (except, uh, lots of spoilery stuff), and I fall for... a boy/girl couple.

That aside, I don't think this is that kind of show, really. Of course you have the guys who just want the hot two girl action, and I suppose there are some SatoruxShun fans out there, too, but everything considered, it's not easy shipping material. (That said, they're adorable.)

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

See, this is the problem with me - here's a show where a BL ship would've had the chance to sail (except, uh, lots of spoilery stuff), and I fall for... a boy/girl couple.

That aside, I don't think this is that kind of show, really. Of course you have the guys who just want the hot two girl action, and I suppose there are some SatoruxShun fans out there, too, but everything considered, it's not easy shipping material. (That said, they're adorable.)

I'm both actually....Here to ship and enjoy the story for what it is at the same time.

Oh it's easy of course....perfect material for all those angry emotions distilled into raw power. Seme and uke has so much expanded potential

[Kakkou]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Also...so much noise over the BL and yuri....come on...where's all the expected fujoshi and fudanshi love? I'd expect them to have flooded this place by now with their shipping fantasies

It really doesn't help that they officially sailed the Satoru x Shun ship only to sink it a few minutes later. I mean, I wasn't expecting it to amount to much, especially considering the type of show this is, but I at least hoped it'd have lasted for one episode.

You're right about the lack of fujoshi/fudanshi love here, plus the recent discussion is... tiring, for a lack of a nicer word, so I'll just leave this here:

Spoiler for service, service~:

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Also...so much noise over the BL and yuri....come on...where's all the expected fujoshi and fudanshi love? I'd expect them to have flooded this place by now with their shipping fantasies

I guess because it bothers a lot of people, either because of the characters' age or the same sex relationships. It's kind of sad that almost everyone focuses on those parts, instead of the bloody mess the anime plot is (e.g. the "visual storytelling" of escaping the friendly "monster rat" nest, the sudden change of their understanding of the "wolf rat's" intention, the "lucky" reunion of the gang, even why the enemy "monster rats" attacked the monk to begin with). All these didn't bother most viewers as much as teenagers sharing intimate moments

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Kakkou

It really doesn't help that they officially sailed the Satoru x Shun ship only to sink it a few minutes later. I mean, I wasn't expecting it to amount to much, especially considering the type of show this is, but I at least hoped it'd have lasted for one episode.

Spoiler for service, service~:

Yeah, I mean, if Satoru and Shun had some more time together I might have had a stronger urge to officially board the ship, but given how it's not simply been sunk it's pretty much gotten lit on fire, crushed AND torpedoed, well...

But they ARE adorable. Aww.

[Rosalena]

I agree with everyone who feels that the relationships were extremely rushed. I would much rather have seen a gradual leading up to that stage of their lives (which could have been accomplished in half an episode) as opposed to the abrupt time-skip we ended up getting. I can understand Maria/Saki because we, the audience, were shown hints of it in earlier episodes, but Shun/Satoru came completely out of nowhere. Looking back I can't see any indication that those two were ever going to pair up. For me it was just as ridiculous as say . . . Mamoru and Satoru

For that matter, why does Maria have the only English name? In a cast where everyone else has a Japanese name hers sticks out like a sore thumb. Is this ever addressed in the novel or manga? Does anyone have any ideas?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Rosalena

For that matter, why does Maria have the only English name?

Maria (真理亜) is a Japanese name.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Maria (真理亜) is a Japanese name.

Which can be liberally (and erroneously) interpreted as "purely unprincipled"

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

I'm both actually....Here to ship and enjoy the story for what it is at the same time.

Well yes, but... I guess the whole thing is just too painful for my taste. All possible variations (m/m, f/f, m/f...) are just too full of issues. (Even the het ship that I like.... argh. Without spoilers, I really wonder how the anime is going to handle this, what with the novel not giving a lot of insight on Satoru's side of things, and the key point being, again, in narration...)

Originally Posted by Rosalena

I agree with everyone who feels that the relationships were extremely rushed. I would much rather have seen a gradual leading up to that stage of their lives (which could have been accomplished in half an episode) as opposed to the abrupt time-skip we ended up getting. I can understand Maria/Saki because we, the audience, were shown hints of it in earlier episodes, but Shun/Satoru came completely out of nowhere. Looking back I can't see any indication that those two were ever going to pair up. For me it was just as ridiculous as say . . . Mamoru and Satoru

I don't think it came out of nowhere... I mean, if we accept that anyone can be with anyone (as long as they're of the same sex) then why not the two boys? If Maria and Saki can be all romantic together why not Satoru and Shun? (Mamoru wasn't exactly an option, not with Maria being the center of his universe from episode 1, also someone needed to be a parallel to Saki's feelings for Shun.) Then again, the point was showing Shun's growing alienation as he pushes away his lover (whom he obviously did have affection for, even if perhaps not as much as Satoru loved him), Saki (whom he also loved, but pesky rules and all that), and basically everyone else.

If anything, I wonder about Shun's dog... one would've thought over-bred dogs like English bulldogs would have evolved a bit in a thousand years. (In the novel Saki mentions that Subaru is the only dog of its kind she has ever seen, every other dog in the village is your normal Japanese spitz type.)

Btw, re: names... I what's up with the boys having a one-kanji name? We have Satoru (覚), Shun (瞬), Mamoru (守), in this episode a Rei (怜), later a Ryou (良)...