Spoiler Policy Q&A thread

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by karice67

I'm just wondering: does this apply when an anime's finished? It's just that this has been and still is a huge problem in the Usagi Drop thread, where every few posts has someone referring to the 2nd half of the manga once again.

Apologies - I know you're probably quite sick of the issue, and there's no closing Pandora's Box for Usagi Drop anyway. But even though most of the offending posts were just warnings about a change in tone (and thus let be in the thread), it really did affect how I viewed the anime as it was airing, and I'd rather it not happen to anyone else for any other series...

I think neither I nor anyone else can ultimately stop this. I tried my damnedest during the airing to warn people to focus on the anime and not keep bringing up the manga ending that would likely never come to pass in the anime thread, but this is a no-win situation. It's impossible to expect people who read the manga to not be interested in the anime, and their entire viewing of the anime was "influenced" by the direction they knew the story was heading in the original author's mind, whether or not the anime was going to go there. You can't remove that bias from people's minds, and trying to wipe out any allusion that the manga happened could get rather draconian. And now that the anime is over, it's rather normal for people to discuss whether they're going to wait for a second season, or continue along in the manga, hence the discussion is back.

We try to create an environment where anime-only viewers can not be spoiled about what's going to happen next, but I don't think it's possible to create an environment open to everyone where we act like the source material doesn't exist at all, and I think that's almost what would have been required in this case. It'd be nice if people could separate out an adaptation from its source and judge each on its own merits... but most people aren't able to do that.

For whatever it's worth, though, I think the amount of stories that have this problem to this degree are going to be exceedingly rare.

[Sageblink]

What I don't get about special-spoilers policy is why some got warnings and message erased, but others are free to go. I understand that even the slightest spoiler would appear as annoying for those who don't want to know, but still...

Exemple : the Persona 4 Animation thread.
There is a lot of "game ending" discussions going on (even under spoiler tags, it's clearly giving some hints about some characters). For a moment, those posts were delated and some of us recieved warnings for that.
Obviously, players know the end. Anime viewers only don't.
Recently, it seems that talking about major revelations in the game is not a problem anymore.

So I understand this kind of policy and I'm please to follow it, but why some are allowed while others aren't ?

[relentlessflame]

It's simply because nobody is reporting the posts. Mods don't read every post in every thread; they tend to follow the threads for anime they are actively watching so they can participate in the discussion. Beyond that, we're counting on every user to help us by Reporting Posts that violate the rules. This sounds like a clear case where people are posting spoilers when they shouldn't. If you or anyone else reports the post, the staff will be notified and we can act accordingly.

The policy itself is clear and does not change: discussing anything before it is revealed in the work itself is off-topic and not allowed in an anime thread. So any game ending discussion is not allowed in the Persona 4 anime thread. If people aren't following that rule, that doesn't mean the policy has changed, it just means that no one has noticed and dealt with it yet.

So all that to say: please report post that break the rules, and that'll help us a lot. Thanks!

[DragoZERO]

Are untranslated chapters of manga included with the policy?

[CrowKenobi]

In this case, just treat them like an unsubbed anime episode.

[DragoZERO]

So, if I report the spoiler posts, they will be edited and the user will receive an infraction? I have done this in the past and no action was taken, so yeah.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

So, if I report the spoiler posts, they will be edited and the user will receive an infraction?

Not necessarily. This is what the spoiler policy says about it:

Originally Posted by Spoiler Policy

Note regarding unsubbed "raw" anime episodes:
Because our forum is targeted primarily at fansub viewers, it is inconsiderate to openly discuss or post impressions of an episode before the fansubs are released, except in threads discussing that specific episode. So, when multiple raw and fansubbed episodes are being discussed in the same thread, please keep all discussion of unsubbed episodes behind clearly-marked spoiler tags. Discussing unsubbed anime is not a spoiler according to this policy, but please be considerate.

Content from untranslated anime/manga/novels is not considered a "spoiler", but it's still considered inconsiderate to talk about it in the open. If they discuss some major revelation from the raws out in the open, that'd certainly be inconsiderate behaviour and would likely be warned/infracted. But posting about the raw isn't itself a spoiler.

[DragoZERO]

What are the chances of having manga appended to the policy? Some people are quite inconsiderate and since the posts are never edited and never warned/infracted they continue to do it. I realize this is AnimeSuki but manga is a big part of the culture and of this community now. Should I make a thread in the feedback forum?

[relentlessflame]

TL;DR…

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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Let me take that back a bit and ask a bit about other people's interpretations of this before I rush to a conclusion. My interpretation of the way it's worded is that raw spoilers aren't really enforceable, but it's worded in a vague way. Maybe it needs to be clarified. So let me consult with the rest of the staff and see what we think.

[DragoZERO]

You don't need to go after them, but if it's in the policy then when a post is reported it'll be edited and the user warned/infracted. Not to mention those who do read it will know about it. Most users are good about it, even use tags the first day of release, but others just don't. A warning and a reminder from a staff member in the thread about being considerate can help. Kind of like a cop parking on the side of the highway, people slow down even if he's not gunning.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

You don't need to go after them, but if it's in the policy then when a post is reported it'll be edited and the user warned/infracted.

Well, that's what I'm saying: I don't think the "lack of enforcement" is because it isn't in the policy. I'm pretty sure most of the staff would already have assumed the same policy that applies to anime would apply to manga/novels, as that's how we've done everything else. But I don't think we've ever strictly enforced this for anime either. It's just that this is so much less of a problem for anime nowadays with most anime being simulcast (and with fansubs being so quick in other cases that few bother to watch the raw and just wait).

Anyway, I've posed the question, and we'll see what comes of it.

[larethian]

Say if I see someone posting a 'speculation' on a future event in this manner:
Scenario A happens because of Cause B.

Scenario A is actually correct, but Cause B is wrong. However, given what the anime has shown to date and there's no hint nor basis in the anime or the direction of the plot which could have led to one speculate that Scenario A would happen using logic, making this a random guess, it is very unlikely that a person who has not read the source could have guessed that Scenario A would happen, and he might have purposely posted a wrong Cause. But still, the chances that it's a lucky guess is not 0%.

I know the mods might still give a benefit of doubt, but in such a case, should we still report it?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by larethian

I know the mods might still give a benefit of doubt, but in such a case, should we still report it?

Yeah, in such a case, you may report it, but we may still choose to give the person the benefit of the doubt. One benefit of reporting is that we on the staff may know the history of a particular poster due to previous reports and infractions, so we may be able to help determine if the person is deliberately trying to mislead or what. I do think that someone posting a correct spoiler but botching the motivation seems a bit odd, but I suppose what could have happened as they read limited spoilers on Wikipedia or somewhere else, and they're using those fragments of knowledge to piece together the rest.

In any case, though, yes -- we may very well give the benefit of the doubt, but it's still okay to report.

[Vito]

Question: are episode preview pictures posted by the official website and PR outlets considered spoiler tag material or can they be discussed openly.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Vito

Question: are episode preview pictures posted by the official website and PR outlets considered spoiler tag material or can they be discussed openly.

According to the FAQ:

Exceptions:
Spoilers are permitted in limited circumstances, provided that they are posted under clearly marked spoiler tags. These exceptions include:

Posting and discussing content found on official sites or blogs.

So I suppose you still have to put it inside the spoiler tag until it is shown in an actual episode preview, but at least you can discuss it in the thread.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by monster

According to the FAQ: So I suppose you still have to put it inside the spoiler tag until it is shown in an actual episode preview, but at least you can discuss it in the thread.

Agreed. The only exception is, in cases where a series has a sub-forum, there are usually threads for speculation/theories, spoiler/speculation, and sometimes even one just for web previews. So, if there is a more appropriate thread, that's the one that should be used. (For example, you shouldn't discuss a separate web preview for episode 9 in an episode 8 thread, since the topic is just episode 8.)

[Marcus H.]

In response to the Railgun S Episode 15 Thread:

Yes, and do you know why, or is this just some sort of a veiled accusation? There are rules for the topics that can be discussed in this thread. You cannot allude to future content. You cannot discuss the Index anime. You cannot discuss the manga or the novels, except for limited comparisons to shown content behind spoiler tags. You cannot post things that are not related to the Railgun anime and this episode. And you cannot reply to posts that do any of the above. That is why certain posts were removed. In almost every case, there are other threads between the Index and Railgun sub-forums and their novel/manga sub-sub-forums where these topics can be discussed instead.

If you or anyone else have any questions about why a certain post was deleted, you are welcome to PM me or any other member of the staff. But don't post this sort of off-topic accusatory crap in the episode threads, or guess what: it'll be "nuked".

^ Hey, I know that there are rules to follow, but do you think that the implementation of rules have been killing discussion lately? I mean, what happens to a question which spans multiple media and involves both Index and Railgun? How will it be handled? Will it get a separate thread to avoid spoilers?

I feel that segregating posts like garbage is not healthy for discussion. Not only it will cause people to ask themselves "Wait, where is this supposed to fit among the 40+ threads involving Index and Railgun?", but it also makes discussions a bit difficult to start due to spoiler tendencies.

Face it, spoilers exist, and part of being an anime fan is how to deal with spoilers.
But I don't like how this is handled here.

[relentlessflame]

Our policy is that the conversation has to go in the thread for the medium that's furthest ahead (the "root"). So if you want compare a whole bunch of things between all sorts of mediums and adaptations, go to a thread for the ultimate source material. In this case, it would be a novel related thread, where you can discuss the source and any adaptation thereof.

As for this...

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Face it, spoilers exist, and part of being an anime fan is how to deal with spoilers.
But I don't like how this is handled here.

There is no perfect solution. Some anime don't have sub-forums that allow discussions to be split into threads. And in a number of recent cases, we have gotten specific requests to split these threads due to different source material knowledge and different speed of watching new episodes (i.e. to avoid spoilers). Sub-forums are generally seen as an improvement for this specific problem, since they are designed to support multiple topics by design, and the whole idea is that you don't try to squish everything in one thread. Splitting spoilers into their own thread seems logical for this. But then you have people saying that it's too much work for them to figure out what thread to post in, like your claim that it's "not healthy for discussion" and that it "makes discussions a bit difficult to start". At the same time, we have been chastised by other members for not allowing enough new threads to be created (which would cause even more fracturing), and forcing things into fewer threads which also "stifles discussion" according to some.

Some people argue that the solution is to allow any spoiler people want to be posted in any thread as long as they use a properly-labelled spoiler tag. But this is exactly the policy we had before this one, and it failed miserably because in certain threads spoilers completely dominated the discussion to the point that it was impossible for non-spoiled people to participate in the thread. In a thread where the only participants are talking about spoilers, why even use spoiler tags? It also meant that people were over-abusing the spoiler tag as a sort of "cover-all" ("get out of jail free card"), and that meant that people couldn't tell where the "real" spoilers were. Based on the fact that there are even *more* spoiler readers now than there were before in most cases, I don't see how these problems would not simply come back again if the policy were reverted to its previous state, and it'd all be even more problematic than it is now.

So... *shrug*. I understand you're annoyed because you can't post what you want where you want to post it. But for now you have to follow the rules that we have in place, because we don't have a better solution to propose at the moment. I'm open to suggestions but, as I hope the above conveyed, solving this problem is complicated, and I honestly don't think it's possible to please everyone.

[Triple_R]

I wonder if there comes a point when a particular scene becomes so popularized and well-known within a fandom that it's not really a spoiler anymore. Or, rather, the spoiler is so well-known that somebody would have to be insanely lucky to not come across it before watching the show that the spoiler comes from.

I'm sure we're all familiar with the classic example of this... "Luke, I am your father!"

Does anime have examples like this?

I ask, because it seems to me that the events of Madoka Magica Episode 3 (and a certain scene in particular in it) has now hit that level of "Every anime fan and their mother knows it".

I also ask because I sometimes see people openly (outside of spoiler spaces) bring up a certain Madoka Magica character in pretty telling comparisons relating to that "every anime fan and their mother knows it" scene.

[LKK]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I wonder if there comes a point when a particular scene becomes so popularized and well-known within a fandom that it's not really a spoiler anymore. Or, rather, the spoiler is so well-known that somebody would have to be insanely lucky to not come across it before watching the show that the spoiler comes from.

I'm sure we're all familiar with the classic example of this... "Luke, I am your father!"

Does anime have examples like this?

I ask, because it seems to me that the events of Madoka Magica Episode 3 (and a certain scene in particular in it) has now hit that level of "Every anime fan and their mother knows it".

I also ask because I sometimes see people openly (outside of spoiler spaces) bring up a certain Madoka Magica character in pretty telling comparisons relating to that "every anime fan and their mother knows it" scene.

In my opinion, a level where "every anime fan and their mother knows it" is an illusion. There will always be someone who doesn't know the event referenced. By coincidence, your anime example is proof of my claim. I haven't seen episode 3 of Modoka. I haven't heard what happened then. Or if I have, I don't know that I have. For me, nearly every reference to Modoka is a spoiler since I've only seen 2 episodes so far. On the other hand, I also realize that Modoka and some other highly popular shows (Haruhi, for example) have become part of the collective consciousness of this forum. So while I would prefer not to be spoiled about older shows I haven't seen, I'm not angered when I am, just saddened. I try to remain practical about such things.