Gundam Seed Destiny

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by lordgemini

Here I disagree with you a lot, the BEST part in all Destiny is the Stellar-Shin death sequence, maybe to you is irrelevant, but without it the serie lost a lot.

You'll find that opinions diverge a lot on this point. I felt that the entirety of Stellar's character was the worst part of Destiny, and it would include her death by extension. Kuwashima Houko is my third-favorite seiyuu, and I wanted to like her character but I felt that her talents were utterly wasted in Destiny.

Then again, I hated Four Murasame as well, so it probably shouldn't have been much of a surprise.

[Sir Dearka]

Originally Posted by lordgemini

Hi sir dearka, sorry, I didn't mean to say that Destiny was the worst series ever, only the worst gundam (or maybe second worst).

Yeah, I understood you well. That's why the example I wrote was Turn A, yet another Gundam series.

Originally Posted by lordgemini

Here I disagree with you a lot, the BEST part in all Destiny is the Stellar-Shin death sequence, maybe to you is irrelevant, but without it the serie lost a lot.

I liked it, indeed. But it's not really a must. I just meant that even if they did not take anything from Zeta, I'd be okay with that as long as the new ideas would turn out to be better, worthy of standards set by SEED.

[D-KLAC]

geez with all this GSD talking i say rewind to 2004 besides that year 04 was gundam's 25th aniversity.

besides GS series was try to honor the history of gundam to bring in zaku, gouf, & dom.

cause 04 was the 25th year of gundam.

[Ichimaru]

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

geez with all this GSD talking i say rewind to 2004 besides that year 04 was gundam's 25th aniversity.

besides GS series was try to honor the history of gundam to bring in zaku, gouf, & dom.

cause 04 was the 25th year of gundam.

i actually enjoy the potential of the zaku, guof and formations of the dom COMPARED to akatsuki, freedom...which was either overpowered, and spam hax

[Dan the Man]

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

Indeed, many say that it is a direct rip-off. Well, maybe many scenes and concepts are ripped-off. But the overall mood and theme is much more different. Not mentioning loads of details. So I basically agree here - Destiny is just too different from Zeta. BUT I like Destiny. It's just after SEED, which is my favorite Gundam show, I had quite high expectations. And this is what motivated me throughout our whole discussion: my disappointment with some elements and my urge to show what I'd change in the series to make it as good as I always wanted it to be And this kinda concludes my point.

I don't like Destiny, mainly because of the relation to Zeta. I saw Destiny first, and loved it, but once saw Zeta, I realized that the scenes from Destiny that compelled me the most were generally taken from Zeta, which in my honest opinion, did a lot better. After realizing that, it kinda ruined Destiny for me.

Now don't get me wrong, I do think Destiny has quite a few story differences from Zeta, especially near the end, and has some very interesting MS designs. It's a good show, even though I don't think so.

[lordgemini]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

You'll find that opinions diverge a lot on this point. I felt that the entirety of Stellar's character was the worst part of Destiny, and it would include her death by extension.

Ok, you all right, opinions diverge, thts part of the charm in the forums , but IMO Stellar is one of the few characters that have some kind of development in the series, so I don't know why to hate her (development as history development, not character development per see).To try to undestand better your pinot tell me, Do you like Destiny?

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Kuwashima Houko is my third-favorite seiyuu, and I wanted to like her character but I felt that her talents were utterly wasted in Destiny.

I don't think it was a waste, she show us that a pro can dub 3 characters and sound as 3 different persons.

Originally Posted by Sir Dearka

I liked it, indeed. But it's not really a must. I just meant that even if they did not take anything from Zeta, I'd be okay with that as long as the new ideas would turn out to be better, worthy of standards set by SEED.

Ok, I also would prefer they don't take anything of Z and do a better job on their own, but they choose to do that, (take somethings form Zeta), and the result was so-so. Both as a tribute to Z and also as a sequel of Gundam Seed (specially that last point).

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

geez with all this GSD talking i say rewind to 2004 besides that year 04 was gundam's 25th aniversity.

Yes, you are right, I understand why they do that take some old models and do the tribute, but besides their reasons, the result could be better. IMO Gundam Seed is 110% a better tribute to Gundam than GSD

[D-KLAC]

well GSD has it unique ideas like 2 LACUS, shinn's personal problem, the return of mu la flaga, etc.

& besides GSD has a final plus for it.

& if you combine GSD's ep.50, final plus, special edtion 4 of GSD you got all the pieces of the puzzel solve for the GSD ending.

[aeriolewinters]

well GSD has it unique ideas like 2 LACUS

Ple PleTwo Ple......

shinn's personal problem

Hardly unique since Shinn's a Kamille with Judau's fetish for his sister

if you combine GSD's ep.50, final plus, special edtion 4 of GSD you got all the pieces of the puzzel solve for the GSD ending.

What completion? I only see nothing but the same ending with different visuals...It's still exactly the same.

ep50: Lacus wins, Flawless Victory
Final Plus: Lacus wins
SEIV: Lacus wins, goes into Bollywood ending with Kira....

Yeah, it's pretty much the same....

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by lordgemini

IMO Stellar is one of the few characters that have some kind of development in the series, so I don't know why to hate her (development as history development, not character development per see).To try to undestand better your pinot tell me, Do you like Destiny?

Yes. I've watched just about all of the Gundam animated works, and it ranks as my fourth-favorite of the TV shows.

The reason I don't like Stellar is two-fold. The first is communication: she was limited to either child-like half-sentences or screaming in berzerk-mode. Neither mode makes for very interesting dialogue, nor does it do much for me in terms of interesting characterization. The second is that her very concept doesn't work because most of her character traits make it harder for her to interact with anyone. This latter problem is perhaps more damning since it means that there's no opportunity for either long-term characterization or meaningful scenes.

Originally Posted by lordgemini

I don't think it was a waste, she show us that a pro can dub 3 characters and sound as 3 different persons.

But we already knew that. Kuwashima Houko has been one of the most (if not the most) versatile seiyuu for years. Moreover, her scene at the end of Seed where Fllay conversed with Natarle was an absolute tour de force both in terms of writing and acting. I hoped that we'd get something like that from her in Destiny, but I was sorely disappointed.

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Ple PleTwo Ple......

Meer is more akin to the

Spoiler for ZZ:

fake Minerva Zabi

than to Ple Two. They draw from the same sources though - Prisoner of Zenda and Kagemusha. In any case, the bit in ZZ is pretty much a throwaway, and it wouldn't have affected the story much whether or not it was kept.

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

well GSD has it unique ideas like 2 LACUS, shinn's personal problem, the return of mu la flaga, etc.

Shinn's personal problems are okay, but they're hardly anything special, and it would have served the story better if Mwu had stayed dead.


Still, there are quite a few things unusual about Destiny:

1. Each of the major power players saw the war in a different way, and they were, in effect fighting different wars. The EA saw it as a normal conflict, so they tried to conduct it with the prime goal of crushing PLANT militarily. Durandal saw it as his tool for implementing the Destiny Plan, so his primary goal was to appear like the victim, and to do that he had to appeal to populism. Lacus (not Orb or Archangel) saw her main goal as eliminating Durandal, and tried to restrict all of her actions until her strength was great enough to do so.

2. As a side effect of the different forces fighting the war differently, it played out unconventionally. The EA was no match for Durandal because he knew what they were up to the entire time, and because he had outmaneuvered them from the get go. Conversely, there wasn't much that Durandal could do against Lacus as well because they both drew support from the same sources and she was the more popular of the two, particularly when it came to the ZAFT veteran troops. Ironically, any power that tried to do whatever was most militarily effective ended up losing because of the war's unconventional nature.

3. Meer. As both a character and as a tool for greater events, she gave us a lot of different perspectives with which to look at the conflict. Her titular episode is possibly my favorite episode of anything Gundam.

4. Durandal's plans in general. I found this to be an interesting mix of utilizing his strengths and understanding his limitations. In this regard, the limitations were more intriguing since they dictated what he could or couldn't do at any given point. Another nice bit is how Durandal would immediately abandon plans as soon as they became unworkable.

5. Lacus. I don't think that she was depicted all that well in Seed, but they did a much better job of it in Destiny. Ironically, most of her most important actions occurred off-screen and the consequences of what she did weren't examined as fully as they could have been.

[D-KLAC]

you know how about maybe you all watch GSD like 5 to 10 times to understand GSD.

besides i've seen it in 3 languages.

[bbduece]

Mwu's death did a impact on how memorable seed is. Since he was a cool character i didnt really mind the lame a$$ excuse they made to bring him back from the dead. GSD would be totally different if he wasnt neo.

Stella was an interesting concept except the execution on her role was poorly done. Her split personality didnt do much throughout the whole story except made shin falling inlove with her because he feels sorry for her. Wasted potential imo.

And shinn pisses me off becaus he always says authrun and cagalli doesnt know anything. He is the one that doesnt know anything. He has no right to the way he attacks cagalli and athrun since they been through the war and experience more than thier share of pains. And the worst part is they dont bitch slap him and say how much pain they been through. What happen to shinn is really painful but what happen to everyone else is just as painful if not more. Sometimes he so damn coo around lumanaria and other people that i can hate him completely. I have two different feelings towards shinn. Sometime he pisses me off and sometimes i like him. Shinns is ok but not a very likeable protagonist for me. If i consider him a minor character then he is awesome because i like to see him getting smack more by athrun.

My favorite charcters introduce in destiny is probabaly the admiral that save shinn's life and then getting kill by shinn. Hiene was very cool and him dieing makes him more cool. Lumanaria because everything she did felt natural.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

you know how about maybe you all watch GSD like 5 to 10 times to understand GSD.

besides i've seen it in 3 languages.

That shouldn't be necessary. I've only watched it once, and I had no trouble understanding it. While the creators did try for a bit of subtlety, it really wasn't all that subtle.

Originally Posted by bbduece

Mwu's death did a impact on how memorable seed is. Since he was a cool character i didnt really mind the lame a$$ excuse they made to bring him back from the dead. GSD would be totally different if he wasnt neo.

With a few minor changes, they could have made Neo into a totally different character with no ties to Seed.

Originally Posted by bbduece

Stella was an interesting concept except the execution on her role was poorly done. Her split personality didnt do much throughout the whole story except made shin falling inlove with her because he feels sorry for her. Wasted potential imo.

Much like Four in Zeta, you pretty much summed up Stellar's point for being in the story.

Originally Posted by bbduece

And shinn pisses me off becaus he always says authrun and cagalli doesnt know anything.

To be honest, I think that that's the reaction the creators were initially going for. I had the feeling that he was supposed to examine his actions and attitudes and desires at some point in the story, but I may be wrong on that.

[D-KLAC]

well maybe because shinn don't understand the original 4 lives during GS besides K.L.A.C. has really rough time from ce 71 to ce 73.

& besides shinn early on some say the main but 4 part of GSD it was the original 4 to be the main again because shinn was being a gil-rey's puppet.