Code Geass R2 - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[lsantos]

Originally Posted by Sprite_Coke

So what was all the deal about Ragnarok??
I don't speak Japanese so I can be completely wrong on this but
from the context, I get something like this
With Ragnarok, Lelouch and Suzaku can reunite with Nunnally and Euphie,
but the world has to be destroyed, and Lelouch made a choice to keep the world rather than getting Nunnally back???!?!?!? Some help from Japanese speakers plz??

I watched with Eng subs, but could not get the whole idea, but it seems to be a dead world where the time will freeze.

[NoLongerSane]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

That was a small group of people not a country, once people started to catch on that Mycarthy was full of BS did they censure him, and kick him out.

Unless your suggesting that my hatred of Bin Landen is the equivalent of Mycarthism

Lol, my apologies. No, I was not suggesting your hatered of Bin Laden was equivalent to McCarthism. I thought you were trying to list some of the stupid actions that were done in America. It was a misunderstanding.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by gabbytay

Everybody has a different definition of evil. For example mine Evil: Anything without the thrill of bloodshed. So for Osama I don't think he's evil, infact i dont give a damn about him. Evil is defined by ones moral and beliefs. There is no general definition for evil if you think about it . Its just a popular definition of evil.

Remind me to never meet you in person, you scare the crap out of me.

NoLongerSane, in my years of internet forums I have learned that people in all seriousness will compare people to monsters for small things. Since I am new here having barely lurked for years, I can never be too careful.

[gabbytay]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Remind me to never meet you in person, you scare the crap out of me.

Dont worry, I follow the 10 commandments... for now

[obentou]

Uh.... lol.

Anyways, can't wait to see what happens next week!

[MaiHikari]

Just saw the episode. Once again, Lelouch amazed me. He turned down the world of truth where he could reunite with Nunnaly for the world of lies where time continues to flow. Ultimately, however, he chose the truth because the only truth is that time will continue to flow.

What I didn't understand, however, was why Suzaku sided with Lelouch. But then again, I never understood anything that Suzaku did. I think the only thing he's consistent is betraying one side for another to support a new reign.

I find it also a stretch how he can geass God. Geass works by manipulating the mind into doing things such as obeying, freezing, forgetting, etc. To geass God is to asume that God has a cognative that can be manipulated.

Nevertheleass, I give this episode a 10 because Lelouch is a very refreshing character. He never sugarcoats his lies or his sins--at least, he's honest with himself.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

What I didn't understand, however, was why Suzaku sided with Lelouch. But then again, I never understood anything that Suzaku did. I think the only thing he's consistent is betraying one side for another to support a new reign.

They vaguely explain in the extended preview. Lelouch and Suzaku spoke, at the very least, about Shirley's message of forgiveness to Suzaku right before she died. They worked things out.

Originally Posted by MaiHikari

I find it also a stretch how he can geass God. Geass works by manipulating the mind into doing things such as obeying, freezing, forgetting, etc. To geass God is to asume that God has a cognative that can be manipulated.

"God" is nothing but a big collection of the personalities of all those who lived, are living, and ever will live here. Essentially it's one big consciousness to compel. Plus, he didn't so much as control it as he motivated it to act with a singular purpose.

[Sprite_Coke]

Originally Posted by lsantos

I watched with Eng subs, but could not get the whole idea, but it seems to be a dead world where the time will freeze.

I said that when the show was being shown live......I've seen the subs now
Also, it was like 60 pages ago.......don't worry about it.

But what I thought at that moment seems like a better alternative plotline than what actually happened. Seriously, I'm pissed and confused at the same time that they tried to reduce the bad guy role from Charles.
I was just watching Season 1 all over again (yes, I know, don't get up on my ass about it) and these are some paraphrased quotes from Charles: "There is no room for the weak", "Competition, Evolution" (etc, etc, Surivival of the fittest idea).
Paraphrased quote from Lelouch: "No, I fight Britannia because it's a corrupt world. All the Imperial family members are fighting each other for the throne. No, they do so because that man forces them too" (that man being referred to Charles of course).

This past episode basically reversed every principle between those two.
Seriously, this is a way better alternative plotline in my opinion:

- Charles wish to bring back Marianne, Ragnarok Connection can unite everything including the dead (same basic aspects of the episode)
- Charles tempts Lelouch and Suzaku with Nunnally and Euphie, whom they can be united with using Ragnarok.
- The catch is that the living world has to be destroyed
- Lelouch makes a heroic decision and sacrifices his chance to be with Nunnally for the sake of the current world.

Without all the mumbo jumbo about Charles' hope for a world without lies and whatnot.

[Kadamose]

Suzaku and Lelouch worked things out because they both have things in common now:

1) Suzaku killed his father out of, what he thought to be, necessity. Lelouch killed his father for the same reason.

2) Lelouch killed Euphie by mistake, and Suzaku killed Nunally by mistake.

3) Both Lelouch and Suzaku share the same mindset on how the world should be.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Kadamose

Suzaku and Lelouch worked things out because they both have things in common now:

1) Suzaku killed his father out of, what he thought to be, necessity. Lelouch killed his father for the same reason.

2) Lelouch killed Euphie by mistake, and Suzaku killed Nunally by mistake.

3) Both Lelouch and Suzaku share the same mindset on how the world should be.

Nice observation. Right now, the only thing they don't have in common is their physical/mental capabilities and their own appearances.

[Discerptor]

Very predictable, rather unsatisfying, and mind-numbing for my "Lelouch hypocrisy"-metre. But Lelouch declaring himself emperor was an absolutely awesome scene, bringing the overall score up from 5/10 to 7/10.

[Tempest35]

Heh, it's hard to believe that such an anime as this is bringing out discussions on what's 'good' and what's 'evil'. Between humans, a conflict is just that - a clash between two or more that hold opposing views. By declaring that one side is the side of 'righteousness' and the other is apparently 'evil' since these two absolutes are forever in contradiction to each other, the ante is upped unbelievably so, with repercussions that can be felt millenia afterward.

Humans are the worst judge of 'right' and 'wrong' since we don't even know what it is and we also like to 'rationalize' and 're-write' the rulebook to suit our own needs. In reality, we have no reason or authority to declare what is 'right' or 'wrong' based on what we know or even precieve to know. How can a human, by themselves, determine the true depth of what truly 'good' and what is truly 'evil'?

Many people turn to religion for the answer to this, other people turn to a host of other things, sometimes even flat out ignoring this question and doing whatever they want because they feel that they can 'justify' their actions by saying, 'I'm not perfect, but neither are you, so you can't tell me what to do - nyah nyah'.

Why won't a human allow another human to tell them what to do? Are we truly on the same level despite differences in age (experience), social standing (privilages, quality of life), appearance (race, background, family) and knowledge (wisdom, knowledge of the world)? Why is it that we always point to the same intangibles when asking 'what it is to be human'? Despite how much knowledge and/or power one may acquire, when they lose those very 'intangibles' that make us human, they suddenly become 'inhuman' and subsequently 'evil'.

I bring this up because Lelouch rejected the idea that these two parents who would abandon their children as they did to both him and Nunally, the very ones that sat back and watched a world become embroiled in war and did not stop it, the very ones who were themselves also corrupted by the very things that they had originally set out to destroy, could not possibly know what would be best for the world as a whole - and Lelouch was right. We need to understand that even though the thoughts and wishes may be pure, it is the actions and deeds done in the name of those thoughts and wishes that ultimately validate or condemn them.

[Jestersage]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Nice observation. Right now, the only thing they don't have in common is their physical/mental capabilities and their own appearances.

Well, that's why they need to work together. Lelouch is the brain and Suzaku is the brawn.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Jestersage

Well, that's why they need to work together. Lelouch is the brain and Suzaku is the brawn.

And that's why they need a rebuilt Gawain equipped with Energy Wings and both of them piloting it.

[Sprite_Coke]

Originally Posted by Jestersage

Well, that's why they need to work together. Lelouch is the brain and Suzaku is the brawn.

Bring in Xingke he'll match both of them at the same time

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

And that's why they need a rebuilt Gawain equipped with Energy Wings and both of them piloting it.

You mean the Shinkirou? The Gawain's been sunk off Kaminejima since season 1.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Sprite_Coke

You mean the Shinkirou? The Gawain's been sunk off Kaminejima since season 1.

They dragged its battered carcass out of the ocean depths and scavenged its parts for the Ikaruga and the Shinkiro.

[Sprite_Coke]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

They dragged its battered carcass out of the ocean depths and scavenged its parts for the Ikaruga and the Shinkiro.

Yea they recreated the Druid system, but that's all that was salvaged. "Gawain" was a Knightmare Frame, which was sent to the bottom of the ocean, along with Siegfried They better remake a kickass Siegfried for Jeremiah. The Sutherland-Sieg's got some ok attacks, but the modeling, and everything about it just doesn't give off the same awesome vibe it did when the Siegfried first made it's appearance with it's awesome spinning demolition attack.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Sprite_Coke

Yea they recreated the Druid system, but that's all that was salvaged. "Gawain" was a Knightmare Frame, which was sent to the bottom of the ocean, along with Siegfried They better remake a kickass Siegfried for Jeremiah. The Sutherland-Sieg's got some ok attacks, but the modeling, and everything about it just doesn't give off the same awesome vibe it did when the Siegfried first made it's appearance with it's awesome spinning demolition attack.

They recovered the entire frame. They just couldn't fix it. They scavenged the Hadron cannons for the Ikaruga and the Druid system for the Shinkiro. Also, the Siegfried survived its trip to the ocean depths. It didn't survive Cornelia's and Lelouch's tag team attack.

[Sprite_Coke]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

They recovered the entire frame. They just couldn't fix it. They scavenged the Hadron cannons for the Ikaruga and the Druid system for the Shinkiro. Also, the Siegfried survived its trip to the ocean depths. It didn't survive Cornelia's and Lelouch's tag team attack.

Oh yea, forgot about that. I seem to be getting caught in every thread in the last few minutes. Must be the lack of sleep. Rofl, oh silly V.V.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Sprite_Coke

Bring in Xingke he'll match both of them at the same time



You mean the Shinkirou? The Gawain's been sunk off Kaminejima since season 1.

Originally Posted by morbosfist

They dragged its battered carcass out of the ocean depths and scavenged its parts for the Ikaruga and the Shinkiro.

Originally Posted by Sprite_Coke

Yea they recreated the Druid system, but that's all that was salvaged. "Gawain" was a Knightmare Frame, which was sent to the bottom of the ocean, along with Siegfried They better remake a kickass Siegfried for Jeremiah. The Sutherland-Sieg's got some ok attacks, but the modeling, and everything about it just doesn't give off the same awesome vibe it did when the Siegfried first made it's appearance with it's awesome spinning demolition attack.

Don't read too much into my statement. I'm aware of the Gawain's fate. Did you not notice the "rebuilt" in front of Gawain?