(CR) Cardfight!! Vanguard

[Darkman.exe213]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Please try to remember that the initial YGO episodes were full of crappy mechanics as well. Remember how you could summon Blue Eyes White Dragon without tributes? Or how Mirror Force and Monster Reborn turned the tables around just like that? Most don't remember because the rules changed later.

I think the difference is that those cards showed that the game had some greater level of strategy beyond having better monsters, as opposed to Vanguard, which so far seems to be almost solely combat-driven. Having something besides creatures/monsters/units give the game more potential to expand, and the way they explained Vanguard looks like there's nothing in the game besides units.(every single card they had were units) Hopefully, they'll change that for the actual game, or start changing things up in the anime.

Do I think it's going to sell? Probably to kids, and for a short while to the older crowd who looks curious. But it won't last long if the game is as simplistic as they're making it sound.

Anyway, onto the anime itself...

Spoiler for episode 1:

From the get-go, I got Yu-Gi-Oh! vibes, and not just because of the card game. The way everything is set up is just so...familiar. The one person who gave a lonely protagonist/bully victim the confidence he needed, the two bullies who (presumably) become his friends, the rival who is supposed to be among the best, the legendary rare card that was prized for sentimental value. I'm not going to criticize the series for seeming like a plug to sell toys, since that's what it's meant to be, but I don't think it would've killed them to try to be more original with the concept.

Spoiler for episode 2:

Erm...slightly better? There's some emotion behind this episode, which is more than what Yu-Gi-Oh! could say about its first 2 episodes. But it just felt so...one-dimensional. One thing I liked about Yu-Gi-Oh! was that they hinted at future story arcs from the get-go, and at least put some effort into hiding the fact that it's a commercial for card games. It didn't seem like Vanguard left much room for that kind of expansion. You're not left asking questions or wondering about how the series will progress.

To be fair, it's only been two episodes, but hopefully, it won't end up being a series about nothing but people playing card games just for the sake of it. I'll continue watching the series, since there's still room to grow and admittedly, my inner child finds some small level of entertainment in it.(tl;dr using the anime to sell a card game to kids might actually work) I wouldn't say the anime is atrocious, but it really doesn't seem to be leaving room to be more than a toy commercial.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by cohen

You know what, I wonder why CR chose to simulcast this. I cannot find anyone discussing it at CR forums.

For one thing, it's a long running series that's aimed at a younger demographic, and that's good for CR financially in the long run, especially if the card game does well and gets popular (which is a bit of a gamble, but always possible).

Also, since it IS an advertisement for a card game, it probably wasn't that expensive... It should make it much easier for Bushiroad to license the card game in the US with the exposure it got already.

And finally, the animation company is TMS, one of the oldest and most "venerable" animation companies left, like Toei and even Tezuka Productions. Any relationship with them is a good thing for cred. in the industry.

[cohen]

It is only an assumption it will be a long running series, as well that the card game will make it to America. CR doesn't dub, so what chance will it have with the target demo? I assume once a major R1 company like Viz or 4kids gets their hands on this, CR will sell the sub rights.

[orion]

Originally Posted by cohen

You know what, I wonder why CR chose to simulcast this. I cannot find anyone discussing it at CR forums.

Nothing much happened. He got his card back. He made friends.

Now if it turns out that the game is to prep players to fight against an invading race on that planet. Then. we'll be snickering and thinking Bakugan Battle Brawlers.

Originally Posted by cohen

It is only an assumption it will be a long running series, as well that the card game will make it to America. CR doesn't dub, so what chance will it have with the target demo? I assume once a major R1 company like Viz or 4kids gets their hands on this, CR will sell the sub rights.

Why do they need a sub for a children's title in the US? Bakugan Battle Brawlers does well enough without it. just look at all the merchandise in the stores.

If it comes over here as a children's title, that Jam Project them is prob going to be dropped so better enjoy it now.

[LKK]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

For one thing, it's a long running series

Originally Posted by cohen

It is only an assumption it will be a long running series

When the series' professional translator says it's going to be a long-running series, I'm inclined to believe that's more than just an assumption.

[cohen]

Weird, I don't remember that being mentioned. You mind links?

But yes, it would be really dumb for it to not be long running. It just feels like from the first two episodes, it doesn't really set anything up like most long running series do. Is the show all going to be card games just for the sake of it to advertise the incoming card game in Japan, or will there be a story like in Yugioh 5Ds that can generate such speculation that can go on for months on end back and forth (you gotta trust me on the 5Ds part). I don't see it being so as 5Ds had a very strong start, much stronger than this.

[roriconfan]

Yeah, even Saki had moe and ecchi to an otherwise plotless anime with zero excitement next to Akagi. Even Hikaru no Go had ghosts.

[chickdigger802]

God this lead made non pharoh Yugi looked like a BA...

[LKK]

Originally Posted by cohen

Weird, I don't remember that being mentioned. You mind links?

If you're asking me for a link where the series' translator said the series is going to be long-running, I gave you one when I quoted Quarkboy. Quarkboy is CR's translator for the series.

[cohen]

Originally Posted by LKK

If you're asking me for a link where the series' translator said the series is going to be long-running, I gave you one when I quoted Quarkboy. Quarkboy is CR's translator for the series.

In that case I don't think it matters. An official translator only knows as much as the show lets him know, or as much as CR knows. They only have listed 13 episodes, so we are going on an assumption.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by cohen

In that case I don't think it matters. An official translator only knows as much as the show lets him know, or as much as CR knows. They only have listed 13 episodes, so we are going on an assumption.

Or perhaps I have a spreadsheet detailing all upcoming plot events through march?

I'm working closely with Bushiroad and TMS on the translation of this series and taking all possible efforts to make sure card names and rule translations are all pre-approved, and for that purpose I've been given quite a lot of information.

If you still want to insist it's 13 episodes because somebody at CR copied the entry from ANN like they always do, well, be my guest .

[cohen]

Well, that is awesome, hope it gets interesting. Could you perhaps vouge that it does portray something that shows it might go long past March as well?

Also, with such insider info, how does Bushiroad intend to advertise the card game in the US without the anime airing on TV like Yugioh does? Is there any inkling on a TV broadcast deal?

(I hope you are allowed to reveal just enough to make us wondering still)

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by cohen

Well, that is awesome, hope it gets interesting. Could you perhaps vouge that it does portray something that shows it might go long past March as well?

Also, with such insider info, how does Bushiroad intend to advertise the card game in the US without the anime airing on TV like Yugioh does? Is there any inkling on a TV broadcast deal?

(I hope you are allowed to reveal just enough to make us wondering still)

Bushiroad, I am sure, is looking for some company in the US to purchase the rights to the card game and act as a distributor in the US. The more exposure the game gets, hopefully the more likely it is they'll find a buyer.

I'm sure TMS is looking for a US TV deal, but if there was a chance of one any time soon I doubt they would have sold it to CR...

And as for spoilering what will happen in the show: Absolutely not.

[cohen]

That sounds cool. In your honest opinion, who do you see picking up the anime and card game?

As for the card game, do you know enough about it to answer some questions?

[Klashikari]

As a YGO player and judge, I can't say the mechanics of this card game is anything interesting.
To begin with, comparison with YGO or magic isn't really a good one. You should rather compare it with Weiß Schwarz: it does uses some sort of "damage counter", creature formation, and more importantly: trigger upon attack.
But unlike WS, Vanguard has a giant flaw: the game doesn't allow enough room to make a game decently long (leading to a lot of problems such like being much more luck based than WS).
While it takes a certain while in WS to be defeated (thus a much more decent pace), Vanguard has a very restrictive "joust" gameplay with a very limited damage limit.
And to make a match longer, they will have to introduce abilities that reduce damage, but that is hindering the player's ability to activate their cards' skill since cost are retardedly linked with their damage counter. Furthermore, that kind of ability will be unmistakenly be broken at some point, as the damage counter pool is way too small.

Overall, Vanguard as a TCG wouldn't be any good outside of short lived skirmish: the structure doesn't allow a proper pace for a match, and the gameplay doesn't allow a great variety of strategy (a direct damage one would be godlike there, even for 1 single damage counter at time).
Design wise, nothing really outstanding: it is basically a mix of YGO and Duel Masters design taking over the bishoujo of WS TCG (which is very likely a handicap to attract WS fanbase towards this card game).

As for the anime itself, it is rather flat. Aside from the obvious YGO legacy here and there, it is just lacking a lot in term of tension whatsoever.
And due to the nature of the card game, it makes the whole deal even less appealing.

[cohen]

Some people on a yugioh forum I go to thought of it as creative how the mana system is the damage counter, but I could tell it was pretty dumb.

[Klashikari]

I can understand that having a fixed ressource related to your damage counter is appropriate in a way so you can only dish out broken abilities when you are near death.

But the way how it was made, it is just convulated: even 1 single cost is precious as hell (since unless "healing" is introduced, you can only have 5 stock available for a whole match. And even with healing skills, it will also cut short your precious stock at the same time, so yay), and having skills costing like 3 just makes the whole deal worse than a dilemna.
Because of the way it is heavily tied to the damage counter, no one in their right mind would use ability that cost 1-2, let alone using that kind of cards.
And suffice to say, if you don't draw that ass whooping card with that expensive ability, your stock just remains idle for nothing.

In comparison, WS allows a steady income of stock, without being fixed (affected by attack trigger).

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by cohen

That sounds cool. In your honest opinion, who do you see picking up the anime and card game?

As for the card game, do you know enough about it to answer some questions?

I've been given a not yet finalized complete rule set. But I can't address anything that isn't explained in the anime.

[cohen]

No opinions? Or unable to comment? That's fine. Personally, I could see 4kids being the best bet as TMS has already worked with them for a long running series already and it still is successful (Sonic X), but that doesn't deplete the possibility for Viz Media, who also has merchandising rights to Sonic X.

My own question for the card game is are there separate values for defending and attacking, or is it all the same and monsters from the hand can be used to block using the same value they do for attack?

[anyme]

All card games animes are fun,at the beginning.
And then they become the lucky draw animes.