At any rate, since I have more time, I want to write a little more on this:
My thoughts are basically akin to Nixl's -- I've never liked Dr.Deneve since Day 1 even though, on fairness, if we look back, like with Undine, she's always been like this....
But again, their's a line to be crossed, and she just crossed it -- I'm not an idiot; I get having an author's mouthpiece in stories is a common thing...
But it's wrong on several different points:
The first is the easiest; we don't
know if that's supposed to be Yagi's intention - we don't know if Deneve talking like a detective is his way of reaching out, or Deneve just being Deneve - that alone makes it so I don't have much of an issue questioning what comes out of her mouth.
Plus, even if Yagi is really using Deneve like this, then let me ask a very simple question:
why?
Whatever happened to the golden rule of writing, "Show, don't Tell"? Because that's what essentially Yagi is doing....if the whole bit about Jean's Wedge is true with regards to Claire, wouldn't it be easier for us to swallow and accept it if we were given more proof of it, little by little? More evidence more and more until their was the kicker and we came to the irrefutable realization that, that is fact?
Instead, we get a giant speech by Deneve - why should I believe her? Why should I care what she has to say? I mean, it's nice to see she has her theory on things, but I don't remember any interviews by Yagi saying that Deneve was his in-universe spokesperson...
Plus, it doesn't help when her theories on certain stuff just isn't good enough - just because their are no other theories or speculation on something and/or Deneve or any character came up with an idea first....doesn't mean we all have to accept it as truth.
I think Claymore's ambiguity as a whole, in this sense, is what comes back to bite us - because,
naturally, Yagi wouldn't little-by-little "Show" the truth and explain to us in that matter what happened.....instead, we get a hollower "Tell" version where a character quickly sums up what happened; it's like that with the majority of things in the story...
their is very very little that is truth and has been spelled out for us -- if everything was open to questioning, their would be no foundation and their wouldn't be much of a story...
That said, it still feels like a lose-lose situation - Their is nothing that says that what Deneve comes out with is truth and/or I have to point-blank accept it....especially when their has been instances where, what we knew, turned out to be wrong; it doesn't help, again, when certain truths we get simply aren't stuff I agree with or think it's good enough......and everyone knows what I'm talking about - when you come up with an awesome and perfectly plausible and logical theory on something, and a character "reveals the truth" and it turns out to be a hollow short secret that makes you look like an idiot for spending so much time fine-tuning your theory...it doesn't exactly make you feel good; especially when their, and especially in a story as ambigious as this, no real obligation to believe the character in the first place.....especially considering,
again, that we have been told "truths" that turned out to be false.
Really, that said, with Deneve and other similar revelations as a whole, the best rule in my opinion is "agree to disagree"....take everything with a hint of salt -- maybe she's right about Jean's wedge, maybe she's not....maybe other characters are right about the stuff they say, maybe they aren't....the best move is to just file what they say away, and let time reveal everything else.
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Originally Posted by Nixl
but I would argue Miria, Jean, and Deneve have for the most part always maintained the same archetype and function.
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Mmm...I don't know, with this, it's both ways - some characters really are better being the archetypes they apparently express, because that's simply who they are....others,
of course, it's better to see more sides of them and very often we do.
I'm not sure which archetype you are thinking of with regards to Miria, but considering how logical and almost icy she felt when we first met her, pretty much all the way till Pieta...she's really changed -- being the sweet Carebear she is underneath simply isn't something that we knew was there back in the old days...it's something that grew and grew overtime and, especially with getting her own extra chapter, it can't be said we haven't gotten plenty of individual development on her.
As for Jean....eh, in this case, I feel the archetype she goes works for her - because their simply really isn't anyone else in the story, at the time, that was like her and it really worked well for her all things considered....it's the same with others like shy Yuma or sweet Cynthia....their isn't, or wasn't, anyone else like them at the time in the story and it worked well for them.
Deneve, as I said in my post on the last page, has changed, but it depends greatly on the way you are looking at her -- she's far more the ice-cold brute she used to be, even if that is, to some degree, how she still is on the surface -- her sorrows concerning her family and sister, her fiery introverted passion, being the blunt voice that brings everyone else to reality....she may not have changed in attitude, but she has changed - again though, it depends greatly on how exactly you are looking at her.
The rest of the Ghosts, as you didn't write them, have changed many times over - Helen is no longer the bullying "laughing at you" prick she used to be, but the teasing "laughing with you" person that we all love now....Cynthia has demons underneath, Yuma is stronger then she ever thought....Helen as well, is naturally far more then the alchohol-raging succubus that people at one point made her out to be and this stems to many characters as a whole: They've changed, or maybe, what's really changed, is simply our perception of them......like with Miria being a Carebear, she's
always been that way....many of us simply didn't realize it.
Their's alot to be said and thought about, so I'll just say this -- Tabitha right now, is the one who needs the most change.....she undoubtedly has had many changes all her life, as everyone else.....she however, is the one we've least have
seen this, because we never see much of anything out of her....it's difficult to compare how she is now, as she was back in, say, Pieta, because we barely knew much about her then and we still don't know all that much about her now -- except perhaps that she has a loyalty to Miria like no other....are we ever going to get an explanation on that? I'm sure their is one, but it would be nice to know one of these days.
- that line, was in there purely to sound cool 
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